1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

SO DISAPPOINTING

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by caitycakes1, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. caitycakes1

    caitycakes1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    My daughter was working last week with a first year nurse who had had a placement in the diabetic clinic at our local hospital. They got chatting and daughter mentioned that I ws type 1. The trainee nurse then commented "is she a non compliant patient" with a wry smile on her face. Daughter was intrigued at the smile and the nurse went on to tell her that she had done lots of research on diabetes in prep for the placement, joined a forum and was excited about the low carb method. She mentioned this to other nurses and was told "no, diabetics must eat plenty of complex carbs". She questioned this and was told "that's why you are here. To learn" :( . When she was talking to my daughter she told her how frustrsting it was to see many patients following the standard advice and then being told they were "non compliant" because of high sugars. Daughter told her I was low carb and what my HBA1C was. Her reply was "I knew I was right. Why should diabetics run higher than non-diabetics" when there is as way to avoid this. I'm so sad that trainee's are still being told the plenty of complex carbs ****. I truly hope this girl decides to specialise in diabetes and can hold firm with her views.

    Caitycakes x
     
  2. inwales

    inwales · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It is so sad that many diabetics will get worse because of the advice given.
     
  3. fergus

    fergus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    83
    It's just scandalous. :evil:
    It's no exaggeration that millions of people are suffering from the effects of conventional dietary advice. 5 minutes logical thought is probably all it takes to realise the dogma is crazy and the alternatives so much better. But the pressure to comply, not to challenge, to go with the flow, is enormously strong within the health profession.
    There are many medics out there who fully realise that current dietary beliefs are based on nothing more than wishful thinking. Mostly, they have to be very careful who they say this to.
    I had my retinopathy exam last week and the guy who took the photos was type 1 himself. We got chatting and he told me he threw away the NHS diet sheets, read up on the biology, ditched the empty carbs, lost 2.5 stones and was now better than ever. He knows that he ought to keep his methods quiet though....

    fergus
     
  4. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

    Messages:
    8,157
    Likes Received:
    340
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Galileo and the sun centred solar system????
    Hana
     
  5. AliB

    AliB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Everything is based on opinion. Yours is different to mine is different to the next persons'. Who says who is right?

    The Medical Profession has self-appointed bodies who decide whose opinion is right or wrong. The Governments have self-appointed bodies who decide whose opinion is right or wrong.

    Well, I am a 'self-appointed' body and I am deciding what is right for me. So there.
     
  6. Knapweed

    Knapweed Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Irony?
    I have a diabetic nurse who delivers the NHS party diet line but low carbs herself. :roll:
    At least I have a helpful and sympathetic ear.
    I consider myself lucky and have had good support from Dr and Nse alike.

    Ken
     
  7. Handyníall

    Handyníall · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I have a friend who went to Bute Medical School (St Andrews). He was told not to cut down on carbs because they're a dietary requirement by the NHS, but the lecturer who was teaching nutrition apparently told him to cut them out if he wants to live a complication free life.

    However, I'm wary about the consensus (here and in other low-carb communities) that not low-carbing leads to problems. I didn't low-carb for years and I was fine, I only ever had 12 higher than normal blood tests in 5 years (and I was testing after every meal). It's more a problem with people thinking that they can eat what they want. They can't.

    However, I know medics who would happily advise low-carbing, but as a lot of them has said, there isn't enough concrete evidence around to chance the powers that bes' minds.
     
  8. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

    Messages:
    8,157
    Likes Received:
    340
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Niall
    the evidence IS there. the Swedish study and further back Steffansson .
    However it seems to be common in the medical profession that admitting to a mistake is the biggest taboo. And how dare a mere patient question one of the "hallowed" ones?
    Yudkin was writing about carbs and researching on them in the 60s and 70s and his work seems to have been forgotten.
    If you want to read the most comprehensive work on the subject, You must get Gary Taubes's "The diet Deception"
    Taubes is a journalist who spent years collating all the evidence he could.
     
  9. the_anticarb

    the_anticarb · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Well as for the evidence all I can say is - old high carb diet = 2 stone overweight high cholesterol and R2 retinopathy
    new low carb diet = lost the weight, lowered the cholesterol and retinopathy seems to have stabilised.

    I was eating more than the recommended amount of carbs before, as I was basically just out of control with my diet, but for me the benefits of a low carb diet are that I don't get hungry every two hours and I like the 'boundaries' as to what I can and can't eat. Whereas telling people (eg on Dafne) eat what you like and inject to cover it is going to create a lot of overweight diabetics at the least and if people then don't cover it quite enough, complications at worse.

    Oh and did I mention that due to reduced insulin intake I rarely go hypo now -that's another benefit for me.

    So whilst I know that some people can handle a high carb diet with no complications or hypos I suppose it is like smoking - yes some people can live to a ripe old age and not get lung cancer or whatever but statistically it's less likely.
     
  10. Useless Pretty Boy

    Useless Pretty Boy · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    That would be a little different though. Galileo was a sole man of science surrounded by men of faith. The problem here is just that different research leads to different results. Sorry, I just have a thing about what the church did to Galileo and Copernicus. In my mind, nothing's really as bad as that. :D

    Also, in fairness, the internet has got to be the most annoying thing ever created for a doctor. A friend of my fiancee spends half her time trying to convince people that actually, no, they don't have cancer, it IS just a headache. Now, if people don't like their doctors advice, they can just run off to the internet and self diagnose and self medicate. Which, let's face it, isn't safe. Though it probably does provide a placebo effect... and the occasional belief that after a walk in the countryside you've gone and caught Lyme's Disease!
     
  11. Patch

    Patch Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Wait a minute - you can catch Lymes from a walk in the country???



    Be right back - gotta go see my doctor...
     
  12. lionrampant

    lionrampant · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's also one of the best things given the moronic advice we've seen people being given by some Doctors. ;)
     
  13. the_anticarb

    the_anticarb · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    103
    If it was not for the internet I would not have discovered this site and all these lovely peeps and the joys of low carbing so I'm definitely in favour!
     
  14. AliB

    AliB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    68
    And Doctors have to be the most annoying thing created for us.........if people don't actually get any advice, or help, or support, or understanding from their Doctor, thank goodness they have the Internet to turn to. My Doctor is lovely, but she has not actually been able to help me. When I was in the most awful pain and running with Diarrhoea and tests kept coming back negative there was nothing she could do. There are thousands and thousands of us out there who are sick, yet fall through the many holes in the NHS colander. Without the internet we would have no help at all.

    If I stopped and thought of all the damage that has been done to me and mine over the years by 'those that profess to know' what they are doing in the Medical Profession I would never stop weeping.........

    Goodness knows how the Human Race managed to exist until there were drugs................

    Sorry, this one has taken back the responsibility for her own health from 'those who profess to know'. Like I've said before, it's all based on opinion and who is to say that their opinion is any more valid than mine? Allopathic medicine has bullied it's way into the forefront and woe betide anyone who thinks outside the box and who does talk any sense. And woe betide anyone who after getting no succour from Allopathic sources turns for help from other resources.

    Doctors never actually cure anything. Show me a Doctor who can cure Diabetes? Show me a Doctor who talks any sense? Show me a Doctor who doesn't arrogantly assume that his way is the only, or the best way? Yet there are an awful lot of people out there who have given up on the Medical Profession and are much healthier for it.

    No offense to your friend, and undoubtedly she does a worthy job of trying to patch people up and keep them ticking over, but she can't actually cure anyone.

    A friend of ours who was my Doctor for a while eventually gave it up and became a Homeopath. She was so disillusioned by the Medical Profession and of not actually making anyone any better that she threw in the towel. She gets better results from her Homeopathy than she ever did as a Doctor.

    They may be the 'caring' profession, but they cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called the 'healing' profession. They have two options to offer - drugs or surgery. If one doesn't work they can only offer the other. Sorry, but I would actually like to keep all the bits I've got.

    I have a brilliant Doctor now that has done wonders for my health - far more than any Medical Doctor - it is called 'good low-carb, low-sugar diet and coconut oil'.

    I am the one who has made me better. The Medical Profession were about as helpful as an eggcup in a flood.

    If it wasn't for the internet I probably wouldn't be here..........

    Oh and don't get me started on all those cases of adults and children who have died through neglect and mis-diagnoses by the 'those who profess to know' Medical Profession.....

    As you can probably see, I don't have a lot of faith in 'those who profess to know'.
     
  15. the_anticarb

    the_anticarb · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ali you asked: Show me a Doctor who can cure Diabetes?


    Bernstein??
     
  16. AliB

    AliB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Yeah, he is good but whether he actually has cured it is debatable - but then he is a) American, and they do things differently over there b) he thinks outside the box and c) I seem to remember that he realised the benefit of testing and low-carbing and then had to train to become a Doctor so that he could practice what he preached.

    He certainly has managed his Diabetes well and is an inspiration to others and he is definitely on the right wavelength.

    I know that some type II's can reverse their insulin resistance by diet and some type 1's can reduce their need for insulin by diet and as long as one sticks to the lower-carb regime one can to a certain extent claim to have been cured if one is no longer resistant or needing insulin, but Bernstein, although an admiral advocate for the low-carb ethic was not the proponent of it. In fact, early Diabetic advice encouraged a low-carbohydrate ethic.

    Certainly the mainstream Medical Profession, particularly here in the UK is still stuck in the dark ages as far as successfully treating Diabetes is concerned. They would rather put you on yet another drug than find any way to get you off them. But then in many ways they are working to maintain the ethics and bank balances of their Primary Care Trusts rather than look for ways to reduce your drug dependency.

    After giving me Byetta which trashed my digestion big-time, the Diabetes 'Specialist' then tried to foist Statins on me - me having a reading of just 3.8! A few days later I read that they get a bonus for every dose of Statins they prescribe.

    Ulterior motive? you bet. Sorry, but I have become very cynical in my (older) age.
     
  17. the_anticarb

    the_anticarb · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Hi Ali

    Excuse my ignorance but why do they get a bonus for prescribing statins? It's not like they can take money from the drug companies so just wondering how this bonus thing would work.

    Thanks

    Gina
     
  18. Useless Pretty Boy

    Useless Pretty Boy · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Bernstein has a way to manage, not cure diabetes. I enquired around here if anyone was familiar with Dr. Cousens and his book "There is a Cure for Diabetes"... which he oddly refrains from sharing in the book, instead giving an effective, though hyperextreme management system.

    What I found interesting, actually is that his management system is actually pretty high carbohydrate. In fact, he even calls it 'high carbohydrate, low protein, medium fat'. His gimmick though? That you don't cook anything. It's an entirely raw, unrefined, vegan diet and it seems to work (according to the result graphs in the book anyway).

    So go figure. Both management systems seem to work pretty well, neither will be required for certain people. Maybe it's worth taking on board things from both schools of thought.

    I reckon the internet really does provide a placebo effect though. You find somehting on the internet, rahter than in everyday life, and it's this 'special little secret that they don't want you to know about' because if it got out, all the big corporations would stop making money. Unfortunately, more than 99% of it is going to be absolute BS and Dr Cousens is going to charge you £17.99 for his book, whether the system works for you or not.

    Yes, it's great to get a second opinion, but when you start 'shopping' for an opinion that you agree with or that means you don't have to do X, Y or Z that you don't want to do, that's when you get taken for a ride. And I think it must be so easy for us to condemn doctors, who I'm sure work at least five times harder than anyone on this board. When we go to them, it's only our problems we care about and they're supposed to spend their entire life trying to cure us. When actually, they've got a queue of patients so long that they're going to be working two hours past their extremely long shift hours anyway. They do all this (and my friend is doing it just two weeks out of med-school) and we feel ok condemning them as uncaring, close-minded, self righteous idiots? Nah.

    Diss the system, the management, the beaurocracy, that's all fine, that's where the problem is. But doctors, themselves, deserve as much patience as they have patients (sorry - awful pun!). And to say they can't cure anything is facetious at best. I spent last night in A and E with my fiancee who had odd shaped rashes around several insect bites (this is where the Lyme's disease comment came from - LOL). She was inspected, diagnosed and respected all throughout, before being given some anti-biotics to sort it out. A week from now she'll be cured.

    We have diabetes; they can't cure that. That makes us angry. It doesn't make them incompetent - because nobody can cure us. Recently though, medical doctors discovered how to regrow insulin secreting cells. All we're waiting for now is a way to fix our autoimmune defect that caused the destruction of the cells in the first place. Then we're golden. Though I suspect some people won't be grateful. People prefer to be injured and vidicated than happy and content. A persecution complex gives people a feeling of righteousness and power. So the NHS and doctors persecute us with their uncaring, outmoded ideas. It's disgusting that they can't leave their mistaken assumptions behind. Why oh why don't they understand that it is in fact us, the injured party, who have all the answers to our own problems?

    Or maybe I'm just a pessimist about human nature.

    Anyway, that felt like a rant. I just want it on the record that never once have I felt let down by a doctor, or that they underperformed in their job. Maybe I'm just lucky. But seriously, whether you decide to follow their advice or not, doctors aren't out to kill us. Give them a break.
     
  19. sugar2

    sugar2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You know what? I am actually quite a Dr fan, although I do question what they say, and can take or leave their advice. My problem at the moment is that I can not getto see one. My consultant qppointment has been cancelled 6 times now. (Hana...I can here you grinding your teeth at the thought of beloved R B H!). I really only go now for the tests that they perform, and to learn about the insulins and how they work etc. It really riles me aboyt the non ompliant thing though!

    The interent however is both great and awful! This site is fantastic, and teh debat that happens is in general healthy, and I learn a great deal, but there is some rubbish out there!

    Good luck to the trainee nurse!
     
  20. AliB

    AliB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    68
    In my experience, Lyme Disease, if that is what it is, is never 'cured' by antibiotics. If it is something else, then maybe, but these things never come on their own, and antibiotics can often (as I found to my cost) be the trigger for a lifetime of other health issues due to the fact that they kill all the good bacteria in the body apart from the yeasts which then move in unchallenged, lock, stock and barrel, bringing with them lots of 'scrummy' toxins.

    A friend of mine some 20 years ago was put, by one of those wonderful Doctors, on to antibotics for 14 months. 14 months! Even an idiot would realise that if something isn't better after a couple of sessions you do more investigation.

    As a result of that she has suffered a host of immune-related health problems and basically has a trashed immune system and little resistance to anything.

    I don't blame Doctors per se. Many of them are very sincere and genuine want to help, but the system is fatally flawed. They don't have time to spend with people, the system never works in a preventative way to halt disease before it starts, They are often restricted by the vagaries of the NHS guidelines and there is nothing remotely holistic or natural involved in helping and supporting our holistic and natural bodies.

    Drugs are a modern invention designed to 'support' our modern diseases. They are not either looking for, or very interested in finding 'cures'. For goodness sakes, if they found the cures, the Medical Profession would collapse!

    All the things that would help to heal us - a good wholesome, fat-rich, carb-poor, clean and healthy diet, clean air, pure water, are not things that the Medical Profession supports or promotes. Not only that, it does its utmost to ridicule and hinder the actions of those who do aspire to those things.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook