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Stage 3 kidney disease
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<blockquote data-quote="Oldvatr" data-source="post: 2516625" data-attributes="member: 196898"><p>This study joins three seperate treatment options together (Low Carb, Polyphenols, and Restricted Iron intake) but there is nothing in the way the study was performed that allows the effects from each to be evaluated. So it is impossible to allocate the outcomes to any of the three. What the authors do is assume all 3 contribute and thats all that matters. So would a LC diet alone help, or tea drinking alone, or going vegetarian alone help? We don;t know and this study is not definitive enough to say. All we can do is look at the final outcomes, and say it does seem to be effective in terms of morbidity. But it is a design flaw that removing red meats from the diet automatically leads to a creatinine reduction so those results are an elephant in the room. As CKD is defined by eGFR which is directly derived from creatinine levels then that will also follow. But I contend that creatinine is a poor measurement of kidney function, and if you look at the other tests that are required for a formal declaration of Stage 3 or 4 CKD then it pales into insignificance because it is biassed against meat eaters</p><p></p><p>Thinking about the iron aspect of this study,</p><p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6442972/" target="_blank">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6442972/</a></p><p></p><p>Iron absorbtion is normally tightly controlled, and it is difficult to overdose through diet, It is possible to do so by using supplements and fortified tonics. Once in the body it is difficult to remove. The process of elimination is normally slow so the LCID trial going for 4 years to reduce ferritin stores seems to be about right. The quick way to reduce iron in the body is through severe loss of blood.</p><p></p><p>So people who come under certain categories should not attempt this diet plan</p><p>Females of childbearing age</p><p>Ulcer and peptic ulcer sufferers</p><p>Cancer patients especially bowel or kidney or stomach cancers who may be losing blood.</p><p>Haemophilliacs</p><p>People with anemia or sickle cell disease.</p><p>People about to have major surgery</p><p></p><p>The average ferritin levels reached in the study are just above the lower safe level, but the study is showing a major reduction, but does not show that if the diet is continued beyond the 4 years would they drop any lower.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oldvatr, post: 2516625, member: 196898"] This study joins three seperate treatment options together (Low Carb, Polyphenols, and Restricted Iron intake) but there is nothing in the way the study was performed that allows the effects from each to be evaluated. So it is impossible to allocate the outcomes to any of the three. What the authors do is assume all 3 contribute and thats all that matters. So would a LC diet alone help, or tea drinking alone, or going vegetarian alone help? We don;t know and this study is not definitive enough to say. All we can do is look at the final outcomes, and say it does seem to be effective in terms of morbidity. But it is a design flaw that removing red meats from the diet automatically leads to a creatinine reduction so those results are an elephant in the room. As CKD is defined by eGFR which is directly derived from creatinine levels then that will also follow. But I contend that creatinine is a poor measurement of kidney function, and if you look at the other tests that are required for a formal declaration of Stage 3 or 4 CKD then it pales into insignificance because it is biassed against meat eaters Thinking about the iron aspect of this study, [URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6442972/[/URL] Iron absorbtion is normally tightly controlled, and it is difficult to overdose through diet, It is possible to do so by using supplements and fortified tonics. Once in the body it is difficult to remove. The process of elimination is normally slow so the LCID trial going for 4 years to reduce ferritin stores seems to be about right. The quick way to reduce iron in the body is through severe loss of blood. So people who come under certain categories should not attempt this diet plan Females of childbearing age Ulcer and peptic ulcer sufferers Cancer patients especially bowel or kidney or stomach cancers who may be losing blood. Haemophilliacs People with anemia or sickle cell disease. People about to have major surgery The average ferritin levels reached in the study are just above the lower safe level, but the study is showing a major reduction, but does not show that if the diet is continued beyond the 4 years would they drop any lower. [/QUOTE]
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