Statins ?

Right on Makka ! **** good place for it ! I can only think of one better place but it does involve flushing.

The real problem I see, is that it is the so-called ' healthy diet ' recommended by the so-called health freaks ,medical profession, the all caring blessed food giants and the pharmaceutical cowboys that caused most of the health problems in the first place. Break it, get paid, then fix it, get paid again ! A very nice gravy train to be riding eh ?

My grand parents ate what would be called today a cr*p diet of lots of fats and veg, virtually no carbs, she died at 97, he at 94.
As our colonial cousins would say GO FIGURE !

Don't get me started, I do wish that people would wake up and start to question ' perceived wisdom '

Superchip

Hi All,

I have been told my cholesterol is borderline high following my diabetic review last week where the bloods were not back, so when I rang in I was fixed up with a telephone consultation with a GP new to me.

She told me my total was 4.6 and they worry about that with diabetics, it should be 4. It is broken down into:
HDL 3
BAD LDL 2.5
Triglycerates 1.83

So second one is too high and third is apparently too low. She said eating oily fish helps, I told her I only eat fish or chicken and I eat a lot of fish including salmon. Don't take fish oil capsules at the moment.

I have been offered free referral to weight watchers or similar, and how did I feel about that, and more exercise. I said that I hate that sort of thing and I doubt they will be able to cope with my diet which is very restricted due to intolerances (but is mostly low GI), but I have agreed to try it though I really am not looking forward to it.

I also asked if she had read my notes, and had to tell her that I have just been told I have no decent disks in my back and 3 are causing nerve damage, I had mild nerve damage diagnosed 11 or so years ago, was diagnosed Hypothyroid soon after, not picked up during extensive tests into the nerve damage, and I have been diabetic type 2 for a year. I also have osteoartritis in hips and knees and have been told not to carry heavy stuff or walk long distances. I have an exercise bike which I intend to use for 10 mins per day (but due to suffering pain for a couple of weeks had to stop)and I go out for short walks with the dogs most days.

I am also under the care of an Endocrinologist who has just upped my meds, and I am sure that will help.

Anyway I have 6 months to lose weight/improve cholesterol or statins are threatened, and having read the side effects I feel they will make things much worse for me, I have a lot of the possible side effects already, and a history of reacting to prescription drugs, so I really don't want to start another. I am on Ramipril for high blood pressure, was on Benzofluzamide that made me feel very ill all the time, hate being on Ramipril and would love to get off it.

Apparently my long term blood sugar management is good, liver and kidneys good, and I am due to go on a diabetic course sometime, didn't manage to get a local one last year.

I am adding various spices to my diet daily to try and help, cinnamon on everything, in anything I cook I add fenugreek, garlic, ginger, cumin, coriander, chilli and more. I cook with oils.

I know my main vice is cheese, I love it, and I feel that I have cut out so much there has to be something for a treat, I also like G&B chocolate but try and stick to the 85% cocoa version. Most low fat versions of things I eat contain substances that would cause a reaction. I prefer full fat yoghurt, hate the 0% fat one, have given up milk but was on semi skimmed before.

Any advice is welcome.

Sorry that first one should read 1.3 not 3

My doctor wanted to put me on statins. I wasn't very happy about this but after checking with a few people I asked if I could take half a tablet 20gm instead of 40 and he agreed. Not long after going on them I hurt muscles in my waist (dancing about in the kitchen) but I kept on taking the tablets. I went for my MOT at Diabetic Clinic and asked them about them. In the end the Diabetic Dr said as I was over 65 and had no problems with high cholestrol and was not overweight and had no other problems except I was a Type 1 Diabetic I could make up my own mind. I came off them and have had no aches and pains since. I was put on antidepressants another time (for night time sweating and not sleeping) they made me ill within 4 days and I came off them. Do doctors get money to experiment on patients!

I am on Pravastatin , had a stroke last year so I happy to take them , no more muscle pain than normal . simvastatin however really didnt work for me .

Hi! it really cheers me up to know there are a lot of people out there with the same views as me, namely that they dont believe in Statins. I refuse to take them having read extensively, & known people with problems caused by Statins, too. My philosophy is: if you are following a reasonably healthy diet, as we T2s. do,(Dont we?) then statins should not be neccessary. I do take an Omega3 capsule each day. Have never asked for them on prescription, & it has never been suggested. But a small price to pay,as it is lowering the dratted cholesterol. I also chew on walnuts etc. as recommended byDN. Glad to know I am not just a stubborn old Lady!!! 78, & dancing 3 times a week!!That is my exercise, & my pleasure.

I take Simvastatin 40mg OD and have had no problem with side effects. Most medications have known side effects that effect some people. If I was prescribed a medication and I had side effects then I would deal with that rather than decline the medication in advance without knowing whether I would have side effects. If I definitely did not want to take a particular medication then I would ask the GP not to prescribe it. Medical records that are not a true record could be dangerous and lead to decisions by health care professionals that would not be to my benefit.

Regards

Doug


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

I low carb and at my last check my cholesterol was quite high. I think this was more likely to be due to the excess of carbs I'd had for the week previous due to my niece's wedding (her husband is a baker). I'd allowed myself the carbs as the time before I had ketones in my urine and the nurse had a real go at me. This time it was a different nurse - the other one was a stand in - and she was sympathetic to the low carb, until my cholesterol was high. I've had simvastatin before and didn't like it so I was given Artovastatin (Lipitor), but I don't take them. :wink:

After reading around the subject on the internet, I just don't believe that cholesterol is the bad guy it's said to be. Or that as a woman I should worry about cholesterol even if it is. The results from clinical trials just don't seem to be clear cut and as I take lots of tablets for other things I'd rather not take another one. :thumbup:

An emminently sensible attitude minitata...

According to Dr Malcolm Kendrick and lots of other medics there are absolutely no benefits to women on this drug. Indeed precious few and dubious claims of benefit to men.

Further reading,

The great cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick ISBN 978-1-84454-610-7
Diabetes No Thanks by Lars-Erik Litsfeldt ISBN 978-1-908018-01-4
$29 billion reasons to lie about cholesterol by Justin Smith ISBN 978-1848760-714

also I have just received Justin Smith's DVD $tatin Nation, about 1hr + 2 hrs of interviews with medics et al. I will post review when watched.

I have NO commercial interest in these books, just a desire to illustrate that there are a lot of other views out there.
I fully expect that the moderators will have something to say ?


Superchip

You want to illustrate that there are a lot of different views and yet your postings appear to want us to believe that there is only one view on statins. Strange. If one lot of doctors can get it so dreadfully wrong, why not the opposing lot?

Take care

Doug


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Doug, you know very well that that is NOT what I am saying. Free expession is not a strange thing !

The overwelming avalanche of the perceived nhs guidline 'evidence' is presented to the masses at gp practices and hospitals countrywide all day, nearly everyday. They probably would not have the remotest clue of what I am saying, nor perhaps, do they care. One day eh ?

One might be tempted to say that it is the blind leading the blind. What we must do is to give some thought and credence to the alternative view, poor comparison here, but they used to kill people for disagreeing with the official ( church ) view that the world was flat.

NO, I am not a medical person BUT, I have survived a heart transplant in 1994,and by taking control of what the medical establishment are told to shove down my throat, because that is ' THE PERCEIVED WISDOM ', funded by the greedy pharmaceutical companies. A little bit of cosying up and we are all in this together with the nhs.

I suggest that you read all the books I mentioned and return with a fuller understanding of my position on this.

I do hope that this message ' passes the censor '

A little knowledge can be a dangerous or an empowering thing !

You all have a choice

Superchip

I do hope that you are right in what you are trying to convince people of. I remember the supposed link with autism and the MMR vaccination. There was no connection but it meant misery for many children because a number of people believed him. Not quite as way out as your flat earth example but perhaps a little more relevant to the medical theme. I doubt I will be availing myself of your reading list, my voluntary work in retirement, in the area of medical research, does not allow it at this time.

I hope that you remain a heart attack survivor for many, many years to come.

Warm regards

Doug


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Thank you Doug, a very warm and most welcome reply.

I am really not trying to convince people, that is their choice, but I feel that it is good to offer an alternative view.

All good feelings to you in your endeavours in voluntary work, much to be applauded !

Thank you for not shooting me down ! I do understand your link with autism, dreadful as it was. ( the autism ! )

I will, of course try to modify my expressive nature on these forums in future, last PM included !

I will try to be a good chap....

Cheers buddy.................................... Roy

Good to have you on board. I know from the past that you have much to offer.

Warm regards

Doug

Some people get on with statins very well. Others don't; I was nearly crippled by 10mg (mcg?) Simvastatin daily, and now won't take them at all. My last Total cholesterol was 4.6, and my lipid profile is excellent. My GP isn't worried in the slightest.

There is lots of pro-statin information on the web, and I advise people to do their own research. Lots of good, peer-reviewed papers are out there for free, at least in synopsis, so have a look around.

However, please also have a look at the opinions of Dr Duane Graveline, on spacedoc.net(just Google). He is a former USAF doctor, and was on the space programme; after that he was the US equivalent of a GP.

Look at both sides of the argument, and then make up your own mind.

I'm doing a little experiment with another substance at the moment; 6 months on it made a noticeable difference to my cholesterol with no side effects. I'm having 3 months off it at present, to see if the cholesterol goes back up again. My GP is watching with interest. I'll report back in March .

Viv 8)

You are such a tease, Viv. Can't wait for March.

Regards

Doug

I had the same problem last autumn with having to decide about statins. In the end I decided to go straight to the people who should know - The British Heart Foundation. You can look them up online. They have a helpline number to call.

I called and spoke with a qualified medic who specilises in cardiology and had worked in a cardiology/stroke unit for many years. We chatted for over an hour with him explaining the good and the bad, with the good outweighing the bad I must say, and with me being able to ask all the things that were worrying me. He put my mind at rest and suggested I ask my GP for atorvistatin, apparently this has less side effects than most but is the most expensive. he also said that if I really was against statins or found them intolerable there was an alternative in fibrates - not quite as effective but still help.

I have been on atorvastatin for 6 months and have had no problems but each to their own. My GP didnt push them on me but said to look into it myself and to research in the right places. I am due a test to see what my levels are in a few weeks, but I was like you - normal if I was normal.. :lol:


Good luck.........

I guess in one way I should be grateful to statins. I had two attempts at taking Crestor and twice stopped because of the bad side effects. If my endocrinologist hadn't decided to test me for Vitamin D deficiency - because a Vitamin D deficiency can increase the severity of statin side effects and he wanted me to take statins - I'd probably still be exhausted, overweight and feel very depressed like I was before I started on supplements. I still won't take statins, no matter what the doctors try to tell me, because I don't believe in the lipid hypothesis and I don't believe they are of any use to women - my personal views and my personal choice.

So, if you're on statins because you want to be/want to stay on them and are having bad side effects, probably a good idea to have your Vitamin D level tested.

clairy clutterbuck said:

He put my mind at rest and suggested I ask my GP for atorvistatin, apparently this has less side effects than most but is the most expensive.

Click to expand...

I'm sure Artovastatin came out of license last April/May so the price of the drug should have fallen.

Statins were suggested to me around 18 months ago, after reading around on the net it would appear that Artovastatin is better tolerated than other statins such as Simvastatin.

Good luck with the blood test Clairy :thumbup:

Osidge said:

You are such a tease, Viv. Can't wait for March.

Regards

Doug

Click to expand...

Sorry, Doug - I'm not teasing, I just don't want to start any red herrings until I know whether the lower cholesterol was a result of the supplement or just my low-carb diet, which also lowers my cholesterol and keeps my lipid profile okay, particularly the triglycerides which should be as low as possible. I haven't quite got back down to 73, where I was the first time I did Atkins, but the red wine doesn't help with trigs either! :wink:

I have also heard that eating fatty food the day before a cholesterol test can put your total cholesterol up; I don't know whether this is true, but I tend to watch my fat intake for a couple of days before, and always fast for 12 hours before my test. It's become a habit

Viv 8)