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T2 Reversal .. ??

AM1874

AM1874

Well-Known Member
Hi Folks,
There is a lot of debate on this forum about whether or not Type 2 diabetes can be reversed. This has been highlighted with the recent study claiming that T2 can be reversed in just 10 weeks by following an LCHF diet (thanks to @Mbaker for bringing this to our attention)

If, as many claim, reversal is possible, then isn't it something that all Type 2s should (would) be seeking to achieve? Is it a universal truth .. or is it just for some with a particular physiological quirk? Is it wishful thinking .. is it an urban myth .. or is it just a question of semantics? .. does "reversed" actually mean: arrested, managed, in remission or whatever? Personally, I am unclear about this issue as yet and, until I am able to make a definitive decision, my day-to-day focus is not to try to reverse my diabetes but to control and manage it through 4 key strategies ...

# Being seriously carb-conscious and committing to an LCHF lifestyle, rather than a diet
# Stopping damage to my body from the 2 (or 3) pints of lager that I used to drink most days
# Upping my exercise regime by adding a daily 2 mile jog to my 3 rounds of golf every week
# Monitoring weight and blood pressure daily, testing my BG levels and eating to my meter​

I am not operating to any particular timeframe but my targets are clear ..

# To organise my diabetes management so that it becomes a minor or non-issue in my life
# To reduce my HbA1c, Cholesterol and BG to levels within or below non-Diabetes range
# To change my life and ways of living to ensure that I can maintain these levels – permanently​

Then, if that constitutes reversal .. well, my mind will have been made up
 
I have this debate with my DN every year as, for the last 3 years, my hba1c has been 36 which is considered normal but each time I am told that there is no such thing and I will always be a diabetic. She also tells me there's no need to test as I will only get sore fingers! So whilst I agree with you that it is something that, where possible, Type 2s should be encouraged to achieve and many either have or are in the process of there are many in the medical profession who still need to be convinced and, more importantly, give the correct advice to their patients particularly for those for whom 'doctor/nurse knows best so I'll do as I'm told'! Some, such as @Southport GP, are 'enlightened' but there are too many who aren't and are treating the symptoms rather than the cause.
 
AM1874 said:
Hi Folks,
There is a lot of debate on this forum about whether or not Type 2 diabetes can be reversed. This has been highlighted with the recent study claiming that T2 can be reversed in just 10 weeks by following an LCHF diet (thanks to @Mbaker for bringing this to our attention)

If, as many claim, reversal is possible, then isn't it something that all Type 2s should (would) be seeking to achieve? Is it a universal truth .. or is it just for some with a particular physiological quirk? Is it wishful thinking .. is it an urban myth .. or is it just a question of semantics? .. does "reversed" actually mean: arrested, managed, in remission or whatever? Personally, I am unclear about this issue as yet and, until I am able to make a definitive decision, my day-to-day focus is not to try to reverse my diabetes but to control and manage it through 4 key strategies ...

# Being seriously carb-conscious and committing to an LCHF lifestyle, rather than a diet
# Stopping damage to my body from the 2 (or 3) pints of lager that I used to drink most days
# Upping my exercise regime by adding a daily 2 mile jog to my 3 rounds of golf every week
# Monitoring weight and blood pressure daily, testing my BG levels and eating to my meter​

I am not operating to any particular timeframe but my targets are clear ..

# To organise my diabetes management so that it becomes a minor or non-issue in my life
# To reduce my HbA1c, Cholesterol and BG to levels within or below non-Diabetes range
# To change my life and ways of living to ensure that I can maintain these levels – permanently​

Then, if that constitutes reversal .. well, my mind will have been made up
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a very similar approach and mindset to me.. your long term aims are exactly the same as mine. Very well said. I have no idea if that is cure or reversal or remission.. but providing I have my health I really don't give a sh*t what it is called..
 
Straight to the point as usual @bulkbiker :D Have you had a look at some of the posts on Success Stories and Testemonials yet @AM1874 ? It's in Diabetes Discussions and, as the previous posters have said it doesn't really matter what one calls it, lots of us have achieved it.
 
I am rather hopeful that we stand a pretty good chance to be one of the 1800...

Type 2 diabetes remission can occur in people who have not had weight loss surgery, but it is very, very rare. Applying the results of this study to the entire 25.6 million Americans with type 2 diabetes suggests that 384,000 people could have some type of remission in the next 7 years. However, only 1,800 people would have a remission lasting at least 5 years. - See more at: http://www.diabetes.org/research-an...ss-to-research/type-2-diabetes-remission.html
Click to expand...
 
13lizanne said:
Straight to the point as usual @bulkbiker :D Have you had a look at some of the posts on Success Stories and Testemonials yet @AM1874 ? It's in Diabetes Discussions and, as the previous posters have said it doesn't really matter what one calls it, lots of us have achieved it.
Click to expand...
Hi @13lizanne
Yes .. I have been devouring buckets-full of info from all the forums including "Success Stories and Testimonials" and I am aware of the points about terminology that you mention. My reason for raising this is simply that "reversal" (in the literal sense) seems to be, as yet, unproven in the context of T2 .. but it is sometimes presented as an end in itself that can be achieved by anyone (everyone) following an appropriate diet. By extension, this can be interpreted as some sort of "failure" by those who do not manage to "reverse" their diabetes. Reversal implies completion or cure or end of illness and, for me, there is still a question over whether this is definitively achievable, which is why I would agree 100% with the use of other more measured terms, such as: arrested, managed, in remission or controlled.
I also fully understand that for everybody who has brought their HbA1c and BG levels down, managed their T2 and got it under control, the actual word used to describe their success matters not a jot. What I am suggesting is that the use of the term "reversal" could be inappropriate - and perhaps even demoralising - for those still struggling to come to terms with the enormity of their diagnosis and the journey that lies in front of them.
I would suggest, further, that media headlines such as .. T2 can be reversed in just 10 weeks by following an LCHF diet .. do little to add credibility to scientific reports and pretty much demonstrate the point that I am making
 
How many times must this topic be debated on this forum?

Reversed/controlled/cured/resolved/remission = non-diabetic/non-prediabetic blood glucose levels and no meds.

Anyway: What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
 
NoCrbs4Me said:
How many times must this topic be debated on this forum?

Reversed/controlled/cured/resolved/remission = non-diabetic/non-prediabetic blood glucose levels and no meds.

Anyway: What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Click to expand...
Hi @NoCrbs4Me
I agree .. I raised it only because, for me, the claim implied in the headline to the article grated. No more posts from me on this topic ..
 
AM1874 said:
Hi Folks,
There is a lot of debate on this forum about whether or not Type 2 diabetes can be reversed. This has been highlighted with the recent study claiming that T2 can be reversed in just 10 weeks by following an LCHF diet (thanks to @Mbaker for bringing this to our attention)

If, as many claim, reversal is possible, then isn't it something that all Type 2s should (would) be seeking to achieve? Is it a universal truth .. or is it just for some with a particular physiological quirk? Is it wishful thinking .. is it an urban myth .. or is it just a question of semantics? .. does "reversed" actually mean: arrested, managed, in remission or whatever? Personally, I am unclear about this issue as yet and, until I am able to make a definitive decision, my day-to-day focus is not to try to reverse my diabetes but to control and manage it through 4 key strategies ...

# Being seriously carb-conscious and committing to an LCHF lifestyle, rather than a diet
# Stopping damage to my body from the 2 (or 3) pints of lager that I used to drink most days
# Upping my exercise regime by adding a daily 2 mile jog to my 3 rounds of golf every week
# Monitoring weight and blood pressure daily, testing my BG levels and eating to my meter​

I am not operating to any particular timeframe but my targets are clear ..

# To organise my diabetes management so that it becomes a minor or non-issue in my life
# To reduce my HbA1c, Cholesterol and BG to levels within or below non-Diabetes range
# To change my life and ways of living to ensure that I can maintain these levels – permanently​

Then, if that constitutes reversal .. well, my mind will have been made up
Click to expand...
Hi. I read the referenced article with interest, but my pleasure was somewhat dampened at the end with...
"The charity Diabetes UK is funding another clinical trial to assess the impact of a low-calorie diet.
The study of 280 patients from 30 GP practices will also assess whether the diet could be delivered through routine NHS care.
The results are due in 2018."
Whose side are these guys on? Surely no-one this century is interested in calorie controlled diets are they?
 
I have no axe to grind in discussions like this, except to say that when someone trots out 'it can be reversed' I really need to know their terms of reference.

There are so many different meanings for the word, that unless I know how they are using it, I don't know whether to laugh, cry or cheer in delight.

It certainly isn't a word I choose to use about my own D. I use 'well controlled', and know that I can lose that control with a single carby meal.
 
'Reversal' seems to be an imprecise overused term when used in relation to T2 diabetes; From what I've read from the various studies and claims it's more about effective management of BG levels through weight loss and dietary changes than a return to 'normality' vis 'cured.' If I could one day return to my unhealthy, unrestrained life style without any negative consequences on my BG levels then I would consider that I was 'cured.' Otherwise, sadly, 'reversal' usually means 'under control.' BG numbers when on a LCHF diet are not comparative measurements of BG of the former normal diet but of a modified state. Only measurements of a 'normal' balanced diet can prove whether T2 is still in charge!
 
BrianTheElder said:
Hi. I read the referenced article with interest, but my pleasure was somewhat dampened at the end with...
"The charity Diabetes UK is funding another clinical trial to assess the impact of a low-calorie diet.
The study of 280 patients from 30 GP practices will also assess whether the diet could be delivered through routine NHS care.
The results are due in 2018."
Whose side are these guys on? Surely no-one this century is interested in calorie controlled diets are they?
Click to expand...

It is an extension of the original very low carb diet that Prof Roy Taylor advocated for the Newcastle Diet study. I had reason to e-mail him fairly recently to which he responded but then I asked if they would consider running a LCHF group alongside his study but got no reply....
 
les74 said:
'Reversal' seems to be an imprecise overused term when used in relation to T2 diabetes; From what I've read from the various studies and claims it's more about effective management of BG levels through weight loss and dietary changes than a return to 'normality' vis 'cured.' If I could one day return to my unhealthy, unrestrained life style without any negative consequences on my BG levels then I would consider that I was 'cured.' Otherwise, sadly, 'reversal' usually means 'under control.' BG numbers when on a LCHF diet are not comparative measurements of BG of the former normal diet but of a modified state. Only measurements of a 'normal' balanced diet can prove whether T2 is still in charge!
Click to expand...
Ok, then I don't want to be cured as I certainly don't want to go back to my old lifestyle.
 
It matters not one bit what control or reversal is called, what's more relevant is that normal glucose levels can be maintained in many cases simply by dietary intervention and strict control.

The absolute plus by achieving that is that you lose weight, improve metabolic markers and feel better then you have in many years.

That in itself is motivation to maintain that level of control. Low Carb is a life changer.

I no longer view it as detrimental or difficult to maintain, it gets very easy over time to know exactly what you can and can't eat and just sail past all the **** in the supermarket without batting an eyelid.
 
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