Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Install the app
Install
Reply to Thread
Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the
Diabetes Forum Survey 2024 »
Home
Forums
Diabetes Discussion
Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say
The BBC. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mbaker" data-source="post: 2132352" data-attributes="member: 256617"><p>Repeats aren't necessary as I have been comparing protocols for almost 5 years. At one point again, documented on this site, I was excited by the ND. I then found out about the downsides, having to battle a diminished BMR and less food; so of course some might be able to do this. I would suggest that in terms of ease of use and adherence a full plate of food up to twice a day drives more compliance.</p><p></p><p>The anecdotes wipe the floor with studies, Atkins had 60,000 that are known about, Dr Westman has over 5000, last time I looked Diet Doctor had greater than 600, non Doctors such as Maria Emmerich have 1000's of anecdotes, and so on - these facts stand, as do those that over 95% of low calorie diets fail and ruin BMR, ask any yo-yo dieter. Low Carb diets fail.....when people stop doing them and go on a mixed diet, I suspect due to the carb temptations.</p><p></p><p>I do applaud the ND figures, but question the "normal" status, pre-diabetic is a significant achievement, but I know the banding for "normal", pre-diabetic and diabetic in my sleep, so the claims in my view should be accurate.</p><p></p><p>Whilst you can answer for your level of knowledge, I accept what the originators of the ND have said, as the trials were strict enough and actually very controlled, hence the shake use (sorry but yuk, I would do the real food version if I had to). I could link what the authors say.</p><p></p><p>The implication of one of the posts you put up, essentially argued that to get "normal" numbers it is possible for Type 2's to do this on 50% carbs (high carb), I put some context that firstly there are calories in / calories out requirements of reduced food intake by a third and that exercise is part of the protocol. The first point I personally think is torture, so take my hat off to anyone who could maintain this, exercise I have no problem with, but I know that for male higher level performance the food intake would not sustain any serious amateur athlete and would not even be considered by say Andy Murray, Anthony Joshua types - nowhere near enough calories. Second, I have shone a light on the question of what are remission numbers (as the ND diet called the results remission), I believe this should align with the diabetic diagnosis accepted numbers.</p><p></p><p>Your statement that you have repeated "<em><strong>not all T2s have to eat low carb to get normal numbers</strong></em>." is factually in correct in my view, unless the caveats I have pointed out are taken into account. For someone looking to manage Type 2 via diet the caveats are massive and need full explanation. I would go so far to say that the any Type 2 who tried to eat 50% of their diet using regular everyday usual suspect carbs such as bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, cakes, biscuits and the like would be back in non-remission in no time, especially if portion sizes were similar to those eating LCHF equivalents.</p><p></p><p>Debanez was on TV last week with her excellent LCHF results, the Doctor who was on at the same time managed to shoe horn the ND protocol into the discussion in all but name, which was a slight misrepresentation (perhaps unintended), The Doctor has been on many TV shows and would definitely know about low carb.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mbaker, post: 2132352, member: 256617"] Repeats aren't necessary as I have been comparing protocols for almost 5 years. At one point again, documented on this site, I was excited by the ND. I then found out about the downsides, having to battle a diminished BMR and less food; so of course some might be able to do this. I would suggest that in terms of ease of use and adherence a full plate of food up to twice a day drives more compliance. The anecdotes wipe the floor with studies, Atkins had 60,000 that are known about, Dr Westman has over 5000, last time I looked Diet Doctor had greater than 600, non Doctors such as Maria Emmerich have 1000's of anecdotes, and so on - these facts stand, as do those that over 95% of low calorie diets fail and ruin BMR, ask any yo-yo dieter. Low Carb diets fail.....when people stop doing them and go on a mixed diet, I suspect due to the carb temptations. I do applaud the ND figures, but question the "normal" status, pre-diabetic is a significant achievement, but I know the banding for "normal", pre-diabetic and diabetic in my sleep, so the claims in my view should be accurate. Whilst you can answer for your level of knowledge, I accept what the originators of the ND have said, as the trials were strict enough and actually very controlled, hence the shake use (sorry but yuk, I would do the real food version if I had to). I could link what the authors say. The implication of one of the posts you put up, essentially argued that to get "normal" numbers it is possible for Type 2's to do this on 50% carbs (high carb), I put some context that firstly there are calories in / calories out requirements of reduced food intake by a third and that exercise is part of the protocol. The first point I personally think is torture, so take my hat off to anyone who could maintain this, exercise I have no problem with, but I know that for male higher level performance the food intake would not sustain any serious amateur athlete and would not even be considered by say Andy Murray, Anthony Joshua types - nowhere near enough calories. Second, I have shone a light on the question of what are remission numbers (as the ND diet called the results remission), I believe this should align with the diabetic diagnosis accepted numbers. Your statement that you have repeated "[I][B]not all T2s have to eat low carb to get normal numbers[/B][/I]." is factually in correct in my view, unless the caveats I have pointed out are taken into account. For someone looking to manage Type 2 via diet the caveats are massive and need full explanation. I would go so far to say that the any Type 2 who tried to eat 50% of their diet using regular everyday usual suspect carbs such as bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, cakes, biscuits and the like would be back in non-remission in no time, especially if portion sizes were similar to those eating LCHF equivalents. Debanez was on TV last week with her excellent LCHF results, the Doctor who was on at the same time managed to shoe horn the ND protocol into the discussion in all but name, which was a slight misrepresentation (perhaps unintended), The Doctor has been on many TV shows and would definitely know about low carb. [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post Reply
Home
Forums
Diabetes Discussion
Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say
The BBC. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Top
Bottom
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Ad free.
Join the community »
This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn More.…