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The moderation pendulum

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,591
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I know I am a persistent questioner, but I find composing the question crystalises my mind, and your responses help formulate my next phase plan. Of course, we’re now onto Plan N, or is it O?

For additional context, I am Type 2, no medication.

So, todays query is:

Having wrestled my numbers into good shape, I am now running continually in non-diabetic ranges. My 7, 14, 30 and 90 days averages are 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and 4.8 respectively, with my all-time average (since the end of October) running at 5.2. Last time I recorded over 6.0 was 11th December (aside from one potential rogue in February at 6.1). Last I was over 7.8, which I believe is the non-diabetic post-prandial upper limit, was 13th November, after lunch. I often have scores in the 3s, and feel fine on those. No hypo signs or discomfort.

So, I’m slowly re-introducing some foods; mainly those I miss most, so that’ll be fruit for some time, in order to see what I can now accommodate. It’s just so hard watching our bananas ripen, and our neighbour’s mango tree start to bear fruit. I could so easily gorge on those for days alone! I’m also eating a bit more, generally, as my weight is still dropping, albeit slowly now. I have lost 2kg since getting back here at the beginning of March, but I have no more to lose.

So, now my mental wrangle is; should I be trying to maintain my levels at the lowest possible score, irrespective of where that lies in the non-diabetic ranges, or should I be moderating my approach to try to reflect the scores of a wider diet, but still within the non-diabetic ranges? Allowing myself a higher postprandial score feels like I would have much more flexibility. My highest post-prandial score in the last 2 months is 6.0 on the 10th February.

I know I asked a similar question immediately after my last HbA1c, but my self-testing scores have notched down again since then.

I know so much of this is personal choice, relating to strictness of control, but my challenges to myself are whether by continuing to restrict my diet I may be reducing my body’s ability to deal with the odd heavier carb day, should I have one. I’ve read a little about the pancreas acting today with reference to yesterday’s actual requirements. So a higher carb day will produce more insulin both today and tomorrow. Or, am I best continuing to “rest” my pancreas from the carbs, so that it can be “fittest” to react to the odd day of relative carb-fest. That’s something I can’t find an answer too, and I sort of fear it may come down to individual physiology?

I don’t intend to revert to my pre-diagnosis diet, but my challenge to myself is the scope of where I allow the” moderation” pendulum to swing.

My last HbA1c was 37, with another not due until August. I am considering having a diabetic profile run here, where I can walk into the lab and self-request it (and pay for it, obviously), at the end of April, just to ensure my cholesterol is staying reduced , though I have added a bit more fat. If I am going to make changes to my approach, I would definitely have an up to date profile done as my benchmark.

Comments anyone?

(Sorry to be so long-winded.)
 
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Can I ask what age you are, as my feel says if you are elderly, enjoy life, go for all the food you enjoy in moderation.
your readings are very low, and even if you brought them up a bit ( to mid 6ish) I do not believe you will cause any harm to yourself in the short term.
You have proved you can get them down again but why ?

I am now waiting for all the negative responses that I thing I will probably get ?
 
I'm a fabulous 57.

I'm rather hoping I have many exciting years ahead of me.
 
hmmmm nice question

id say are you happy with your diet/? or are you yearning more carbs? is you are happy id say carry on but if you think you would be happier eating a few more carbs then you have the scope to try and see what happens, im sorry this isnt very decisive, this is mainly due to me asking myself this very same question and havent 100% decided on a plan, ive got a big physical challenge coming up nd will decide on a plan once its over but for me, because i really like the way im eating i think ill continue the way i am going for life, but would it be nice to have a slice of toast with my cafe fry up? yes it would so i maybe thinking on a small slip from grace occasionally, i think the important thing is that we carry on our healthy lifestyles in the main. keep us informed please
 
Presumably it is just a question of what is going to be a sustainable diet for you 5, 10 or 15 years down the line, and only you know that. If it's easier to sustain with a few extra carbs, then why not, as long as you keep your wonderful control. If it's feeling that you have to make a decision that is the difficult thing, then just decide what you think we are going to answer and then decide what you would feel about it if we then forced you to do it. I'm sure you will make the right decision FOR YOU.
 
It may be that you find a few more carbs does nothing to your numbers and you can introduce them as you feel fit. The choice is yours - I added an apple and a banana back into my diet beginning of Feb (unfortunately I am pretty sure that my digestive system is unable to handle bananas so may have to remove them again ) and also a slice of bread (soya and linseed or rye) and have had 100g at one sitting.

Must be worth a try just to see and you can always revert. Remember you have to train your pancreas first stage over about a week so don't go adding too much at once. If you can tolerate it you have some added scope to vary your diet in the future.
 
Thanks guys.

I'm pretty OK with my diet at present, aside from the modest calorie deficit, which also has to be addressed. In considering that, it has been an opportune time to think about how I add those calories - by additional fat, or a few additional carbs. From time to time, I would love more fruit. I live in a tropical paradise, and yet need to avoid the local fruit. That's my main "temptation. The flip side is I'm a little nervous of dabbling too much and finding myself well off the straight and narrow.

I'm well away from the NHS, in a place with a pay-as-you-go health system, so I'd rather stay away from needing that, if I can.

Equipoise - please don't feel concerned that I may be managing my diabetes by committee or forum. That simply wouldn't happen, but I do appreciate the many, many years of diabetic experience this forum holds, and I am a firm believer that once a wheel has been invented, I don't need to invent it all over again.

Andrew - I appreciate any reintroduction of carbs would have to be in a controlled, measured and reviewed fashion. I have my spreadsheets and macros too.

And Andy - happy if this starts your own thought processes off.

I think I probably have more thinking to do on this, but I would be happy to hear others' input or experience if they have any.
 
You're lucky that you have the control to experiment like this. As long as you're staying in the normal range, then I'd say go for it.

My understanding of normal range is:

3.4 - 5.4 fasting
< 7.8 at 1 hour
< 6.6 at 2 hours

Never above 7.7 is truly normal, I gather.

Above all, a diet needs to be sustainable, even more so if you don't have the threat of diabetic complications to keep you carbohydrate restriction compliant.

You'd also need to figure in enzyme down-regulation - I gather that enzymes that aren't used will have stopped production and it will probably take several exposures to various carbs to bring their production back to normal levels. So testing a food once probably wouldn't be enough time for your body to adjust.

As long as you're prepared for all the testing needed - and seems like you are - I don't see why you can't find out how flexible your metabolism can be.

You may be one of the lucky ones who found out early enough to reverse your pancreatic insufficiency by diet and exercise alone.
 
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