The sadness of being ignorant of their own diabetes

Bann1 · Jan 7, 2016

I recommend printing this page out and sending it separately to both husband and wife with an expression of your concern and your wish to maintain your friendship but feel you have to mention this.. You might lose a friendship but you might lose it anyway if they learn your advice was right later on. You might also lose a friendship if the husband dies. Otherwise they might forgive you and still follow the same pattern which, regrettably, is the norm as so many people don't want to accept advice and when this happens we have to live with this. Not giving advice is not really an option.

andyv · Jan 7, 2016

i think that the person involved needs to be self motivated and it sounds like your friend is trying to justify no life style changes and using excuses like high bloods to carry on regardless, if i was you i would be hard and cold with him and tell him the worse case scenario, i was diagnosed type 2 just over 5 months ago and have lost 2 stone 2lbs since being diagnosed, i have cut out all the rubbish like sweets,crisps,biscuits ect, i use very little sugar and have managed to bring my blood levels under control as well, if i can do it anyone can, i hope your friend heads the warnings as we all know the worst case outcome

Neelesh · Jan 7, 2016

Donnadoobie said:
A couple of days ago we had a house party. A good friend, who has had diabetes for many years came with his wife and daughter. This friend has recently been moved onto insulin injections as the diabetes was not being managed on medication. I don't know what advice he had been given but regularly eats whole loaves of bread, fish and chips and endless biscuits. I mentioned in the summer that that it was good to cut down carbs and he has told me that he has done so, although I'm not sure if they understand what that is as I was offered oatcakes when I visited the other day with the added "they're gluten free". Anyway, back to the house party and when he arrived I asked him what he wanted to drink "I'll have a Coke" I rechecked asking did he mean a Diet Coke. "No a proper Coke, my blood sugar was high this afternoon so I am avoiding alcohol" I said that maybe the Coke would be a bit sugary but he insisted that he wanted a Coke as he was "really thirsty" and proceeded to drink two pints. He sat on the chair, sleepy, cold and not engaging in any conversation until they went home. I spent the whole of yesterday very worried about him and a text sent to him came back saying he was fine. I am very sad that he doesn't seem to understand, or has had any real advice about how to control his diabetes, or that his wife doesn't understand at all. Is there anything I can do to help them, any advice you can give me to help him?

Happy New Year to you all. I've just read your post Donna and I can fully understand your concern. I think we all know people who are either in denial over the mismanagement of their diabetes or really don't know what they're doing is wrong. I read the part about the full-fat Coke with some shock and I think your friend might be an extreme case in the lack-of-diabetes-awareness department.

A number of people have said what action they took to improve their health choices after being diagnosed. Many of whom will have made some life changing decisions, with the view that "If I can do it anyone can". While this may well be true, the problem is that everyone's motivation criteria for taking matters into their own hands are different, as is everyone's ability to understand what really is good/bad diabetes management.

Rather then getting embroiled in a difficult conversation with your friend, my view on this would be to invite your friend to come with you to a Diabetes Awareness Session which many boroughs run from time to time. GPs will also quite often be able to advise when these sessions are taking place and where. If your friend chooses to go with you he can speak to a number of people in the same position and get a better understanding of what makes for good diabetes management.

I think this will help with your dilemma of how to approach your friend's mis-management of his diabetes, as it won't be you doing all the talking. It may also get him interested in knowing more about his condition.

Enclave · Jan 7, 2016

Neelesh said:
I think this will help with your dilemma of how to approach your friend's mis-management of his diabetes, as it won't be you doing all the talking. It may also get him interested in knowing more about his condition.

Sadly like my friend .. they are not mis-managing their diabetes .. they are following to the letter the advice given to them by their health professionals ! How can some one who still believes their Doctor knows best .. go against medical advice given by Doctors and nurses who know what they are talking about .. its a very sad fact that some people do trust doctors .. I did at one time .. it was only when I became to unwell to listen to my dr and let the wife take over with the LCHF way of eating did my health improve.
Its the medical profession we should be targeting for change, then people like my friend and Donna's friend can get the right advice from a place they trust, their doctor !!!!

AloeSvea · Jan 7, 2016

Life can be very lonely without friends! And beloved family members . In my two-three cultures at least - it really is not OK to strongly suggest/advise, unasked, on something as personal and individual as what food is eaten and what drink is drunk. Definitely not discuss body fat! As in theirs, even when discussing your own. No matter how much we know on the subject. And in my case - how endangered my own health was and is by T2D. To do so - offer unsolicited advice means you run a very strong risk of losing close relationships - at the very least lunch and dinner invites! (I love those dates!)

In all my cultures (which includes Anglo-saxon) - it isn't really OK to bring up the bread people love to eat as being potentially dangerous, and belly fat. Unless directly solicited. I can't tell you what a shame I think this is! But it does seem to be the case.

I do like the idea of teaching by example. Folk at risk can see the glucose level management in action. Everyone I am close to and family members all know I low-carb. And that I need to move. They know that means, vaguely, that I don't eat sugar, grains and wheat flour products. (Well - 98% of the time! .) Hopefully they will see me continue to live with my feet attached and my eyesight, such that it is, and with functioning kidneys. (Fingers crossed.) And one day, hopefully not for them! (ie they remain T2D free), they might even realise what it all means, for them and their nearest and dearest. One day. But often we present to them when they are not ready to receive. Perhaps.

Brunneria · Jan 7, 2016

I have had glucose tolerance issues and hypos, carb cravings and insulin weirdness since i was 4 years old.

If i had a hot dinner for every time some interfering, well meaning, opinionated and invariably ignorant person has told me what they think i shouldn't be eating... Well, let's just say i would be much fatter. After 45 years of it, i have developed some coping mechanisms that hopefully discourage such interference with anyone else, in future.

If anyone feels like they want to give out unsolicited dietary advice, they had better hope they don't do it to me, because yes, I am bitter.

robertconroy · Jan 8, 2016

Well I'm a diabetic nutritionist from the U.S. This saddens me how the healthcare systems are so miserably failing to treat type 2, and type1, diabetics. Type 1 diabetes is insulin insuffuciency, type 2 diabetes is insulin abuse. If your healthcare provider doesn't teach the glycemic load of foods, you will be the one who suffers. In type 2 the disease is not really high blood sugar, it's high insulin. High insulin is what causes insulin resistance. Every one with type 2 has insulin resistance, which causes blood sugars to rise because insulin in your body isn't working as it should to get glucose into the cells. The cells are reisting insulin because they know too much insulin is toxic to the cells. So maybe, you get diagnosed. The doctor puts you on diabetes drugs. All they really do is raise your insulin, so it makes your insulin resistance worse, not better. Now we're realizing this is not a good strategy because most all cronic diseases are caused by, and made worse by, high insulin.
So what's a better approach? Exercise makes your body more sensitive to insulin. Some foods lower blood sugar. But the most important is learning the glycemic load of foods, what foods spike your blood sugar, and what foods don't. You can get phone apps that tell you, or you can get a little book on the glycemic load of foods and carry it with you. This book will save your life -
The Easy Glycemic Load Handbook by Dr. Fedon Alexander Lindberg
You can easily lose 3-5 lbs. a week if you use this book. I dropped my HbA1C 5.2%. That's huge!

Southbeds · Jan 9, 2016

robertconroy said:
Well I'm a diabetic nutritionist from the U.S. This saddens me how the healthcare systems are so miserably failing to treat type 2, and type1, diabetics. Type 1 diabetes is insulin insuffuciency, type 2 diabetes is insulin abuse. If your healthcare provider doesn't teach the glycemic load of foods, you will be the one who suffers. In type 2 the disease is not really high blood sugar, it's high insulin. High insulin is what causes insulin resistance. Every one with type 2 has insulin resistance, which causes blood sugars to rise because insulin in your body isn't working as it should to get glucose into the cells. The cells are reisting insulin because they know too much insulin is toxic to the cells. So maybe, you get diagnosed. The doctor puts you on diabetes drugs. All they really do is raise your insulin, so it makes your insulin resistance worse, not better. Now we're realizing this is not a good strategy because most all cronic diseases are caused by, and made worse by, high insulin.
So what's a better approach? Exercise makes your body more sensitive to insulin. Some foods lower blood sugar. But the most important is learning the glycemic load of foods, what foods spike your blood sugar, and what foods don't. You can get phone apps that tell you, or you can get a little book on the glycemic load of foods and carry it with you. This book will save your life -
The Easy Glycemic Load Handbook by Dr. Fedon Alexander Lindberg
You can easily lose 3-5 lbs. a week if you use this book. I dropped my HbA1C 5.2%. That's huge!

I also used the Glycemic load to do my online food shopping ,that and a meter helped my lower my BG

zand · Jan 9, 2016

robertconroy said:
Well I'm a diabetic nutritionist from the U.S. This saddens me how the healthcare systems are so miserably failing to treat type 2, and type1, diabetics. Type 1 diabetes is insulin insuffuciency, type 2 diabetes is insulin abuse. If your healthcare provider doesn't teach the glycemic load of foods, you will be the one who suffers. In type 2 the disease is not really high blood sugar, it's high insulin. High insulin is what causes insulin resistance. Every one with type 2 has insulin resistance, which causes blood sugars to rise because insulin in your body isn't working as it should to get glucose into the cells. The cells are reisting insulin because they know too much insulin is toxic to the cells. So maybe, you get diagnosed. The doctor puts you on diabetes drugs. All they really do is raise your insulin, so it makes your insulin resistance worse, not better. Now we're realizing this is not a good strategy because most all cronic diseases are caused by, and made worse by, high insulin.
So what's a better approach? Exercise makes your body more sensitive to insulin. Some foods lower blood sugar. But the most important is learning the glycemic load of foods, what foods spike your blood sugar, and what foods don't. You can get phone apps that tell you, or you can get a little book on the glycemic load of foods and carry it with you. This book will save your life -
The Easy Glycemic Load Handbook by Dr. Fedon Alexander Lindberg
You can easily lose 3-5 lbs. a week if you use this book. I dropped my HbA1C 5.2%. That's huge!

My doctor put me on the GL diet whilst I was still pre-diabetic. I insisted that I knew I wouldn't lose weight on it because I was already eating those foods but in much less quantities. She said "Well it worked for me, and it will work for you too if you don't cheat" I tried it for 2 weeks and put on 4 lbs each week. At that time I had been gaining around 7 pounds a year. I didn't go back as I knew she would accuse me of cheating, but I followed it to the letter.

I have found that a much better book is Trudi Deakin "Eat Fat - step-by-step guide to Low Carb Living"

KittyKatty · Jan 9, 2016

If I had a pound for every diabetes-ignoramus I've encountered I'd be rich, rich. rich.
It's understandable if your life isn't touched by the condition to remain fairly ignorant of it (although any health education is a good thing) but I find it shocking to meet an established diabetic who seems unable to grasp how important carb control is. I've had a colleague whose mother has Type 2. This colleague has stated "I know everything there is to know about diabetes" then shakes her head in quiet disapproval as if she's knows a little dark secret about the dangers of low carbs but won't tell me. It's interesting that her mother remains very overweight and IIRC has a hba1c in the 60's and apparently regularly eats buttercream cakes, chocolate and home-made chips (according to my knowledgable colleague, potato chips made at home are more healthier than chip shop ones

)
Op, your friend is sounds cavalier about his attitude, which is very sad. You can warn, educate and cajole him but as you know, ultimately you have to step back as a worried bystander in the same way if he was an alcoholic or drug user Be there to advise and support him but what else can you do? It's a very sad situation.

Tarabas · Jan 9, 2016

I know LCHF is the solution most here prefer. But IMHO the best way to control diabetes is having good numbers. Not important whether with LCHF or with count and inject insulin correctly. So feel sorry or be shocked when someone cannot get control of his bg numbers, but not because they do not follows the holy grail of LCHF. And do not equalize non LCHF with alcoholics or drug addicts. Thanks.

zand · Jan 9, 2016

Tarabas said:
I know LCHF is the solution most here prefer. But IMHO the best way to control diabetes is having good numbers. Not important whether with LCHF or with count and inject insulin correctly. So feel sorry or be shocked when someone cannot get control of his bg numbers, but not because they do not follows the holy grail of LCHF. And do not equalize non LCHF with alcoholics or drug addicts. Thanks.

I agree that having good control is important. If and when LCHF no longer works for me, then insulin will be my next choice. I don't want to take any other drugs to control my T2. Insulin injections will replace my own insulin when I need it to do so, until then though I would like to stave off that time for as long as possible.

I am a bit concerned that you are being judgemental about alcoholism and drug addiction. There are many reasons why someone could end up addicted to drugs, alcohol, or even carbs. It's not always the fault of the addict and blaming them doesn't help. There but for the grace of God and all that......

Tarabas · Jan 9, 2016

I do not indent to blame indiscriminately all addicts, (perhaps a problem not to be a native speaker)

But eating not LCHF is not like being addiced to anything neither carbs.

And more important, to me many phrases here sounds like blaming:

He is choosing his likes over his health

it depends whether he's in denial or is just uninformed. ...I used to assume people must be wilfully ignoring advice, but I've learnt some people just aren't as aware as most people here.

My point being that the person needs to want to stop abusing themselves

Anyone would know coke is bad. The only time you'd drink something like coke is if you were having a hypo and needed that sugar.

totally pointless in trying to help someone who clearly doesn't want to help themselves

is the norm as so many people don't want to accept advice

type 2 diabetes is insulin abuse

It's understandable if your life isn't touched by the condition to remain fairly ignorant of it

I DO NOT DENY that some of these mentioned diabetics have hugh problems - but it sounds to me these problems are not or not only eating carbs:

same problem with two women at work One, age 23, is injecting insulin but doesn't like to test her BG, doesn't carb count as such but 'guesstimates' how much to inject. ... but a day or so later she went to the DN who said she shouldn't test if it worries her and then repeated the party line about needing carbs at every meal.

Edited to add .. He was also ordered not to test his own blood sugars as apparently he would not be able to understand what the numbers mean ! So would not even try my meter

Yes, eating too much carbs - particularly bad ones like chips, crisps, sugar ... - is not healthy, not for a diabetic and not for everyone else. But eating them from time to time or eating carbs like bread, potatoes, rice is not as toxic as it is described here. If and when you can control it with insulin! (If not, you have a problem, no word from me to deny this.) This is not the way of LCHF (and I believe LCHF works for you!) but it is neither the highway to hell.

Oldvatr · Jan 9, 2016

@Tarabas. I think you malign KittyKatty, who did not connect LCHF with drug or alcohol addiction at all. There are many here who are finding Low Carb dieting works well for them. I am one of them, and in my case it has saved me from taking insulin for the rest of my life.You obviously have an issue about using diet to control bgl, and seem happy to accept insulin as being the way forward, possibly the only way forward. I disagree with that, and am happy to share my experience of LCHF incase it allows someone to take control of their condition easily and painlessly, I offer this in response to the OP since it is possibly something that his friend might be able to take up without making a meal of it so to speak. I would suggest that you are being a tad judgemental on others posting here, many of whom are veteran posters who talk a lot of sense. You do not.

Tarabas · Jan 9, 2016

Oldvatr said:
I think you malign KittyKatty, who did not connect LCHF with drug or alcohol addiction at all.

Apparantly I only dreamed to read this:

"ultimately you have to step back as a worried bystander in the same way if he was an alcoholic or drug user"

(BTW, I am sure you wanted to write " who did not connect non LCHF with drug or alcohol addiction at all. ")

@Tarabas.You obviously have an issue about using diet to control bgl,

and you obviously have an issue about not eating LCHF and using insulin to get good numbers.

and seem happy to accept insulin as being the way forward, possibly the only way forward.

for sure, and because of preaching this mantra I wrote things like "This is not the way of LCHF (and I believe LCHF works for you!) but it is neither the highway to hell." or " But IMHO the best way to control diabetes is having good numbers. Not important whether with LCHF or with count and inject insulin correctly " Really? To be honest, some other writings here sound much more like preaching "I have the one and only way!"

I disagree with that, and am happy to share my experience of LCHF incase it allows someone to take control of their condition easily and painlessly,

Please accept that banish all these things like potatoes, bread, noodles ... is not easy or painless for all.

I would suggest that you are being a tad judgemental on others posting here, many of whom are veteran posters who talk a lot of sense. You do not.

You are welcome to refute my writings in #33 http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...-their-own-diabetes.89852/page-2#post-1027346 instead of creating a straw man or arguing ad hominem.

And once again: I am happy for everone who can manage his diabetes by your way. LCHF is a way, and I love to see any share of experience to manage diabetes! But I do not like to read that everyone who do not LCHF is dumb or uninformed, abusing himself or has no interest in his health.

Oldvatr · Jan 10, 2016

I would suggest that drinking 2 pints of normal coke, having been offered a diet coke version, and having stated that his sugar levels are high shows that the OP 's friend is not xurrently managing his bgl properly. If you look at my first posting in this thread you will note that I recommended that he be introduced to the Forum as a way to help him and his wife move forward. I only mentioned LCHF as a closing line regarding my own experience to show I was successfully engaging my own family in my care.

The line you quote from KittKatty does not mention LCHF either for or against. The point raised is nothing to do with diet, it was to do with standing back.

I have posted elsewhere in this forum expressing reservations about LCHF, even though I am doing it myself, since I do not hold it up as an answer to a maidens prayer. It is simply a tool to use, and is simpler to apply than other methods. I do not see insulin as a way of stuffing carbs down my throat or as an excuse to continue with a high carb diet. It has its own drawbacks, and I for one do not wish to go that route if I can avoid it. I would suggest that if the OP friend is having trouble with bgl without insulin, then going on insulin will present its own problems, but unfortunately that may be where his life choices takes things.

BeccaScott · Jan 10, 2016

Donnadoobie he needs to change his doctor surgery and find one who going to help with his diabetes before it's too late.

Tarabas · Jan 10, 2016

Oldvatr said:
If you look at my first posting in this thread you will note that I recommended that he be introduced to the Forum as a way to help him and his wife move forward. I only mentioned LCHF as a closing line regarding my own experience to show I was successfully engaging my own family in my care.

The line you quote from KittKatty does not mention LCHF either for or against.

I did not say everyone here says always that LCHF is the only way. But sadly I was able to find many quotes where it was and where a non LCHF way was blamed. See the quotes above. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/index.php?posts/1027346

And these are still there, even if I misunderstood KittKatty (yes, there was no wordly mention of LCHF in the line, but there was a context in the whole post, which give me the impression that the addict thing was about not doing LCHF).

NoCrbs4Me · Jan 10, 2016

What's wrong with LCHF?

zand · Jan 10, 2016

If you are an obese T2 with insulin resistance then reducing carbs has to be sensible. There's no point adding more insulin because you have too much already. If you are hungry having reduced carbs, then increasing fat will help satiate the hunger. And there we have it - reduced carbs increased fat works to control BG's. How much you reduce carbs is personal. Ideally you do it until your BG's stay under 7.8. How much you increase fat is personal too. The beauty of it is that you can eat whatever you like within your personal carb limit. Like it or not that's LCHF.

The sadness of being ignorant of their own diabetes

Newbie

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Guru

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Master

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Master

Active Member

Expert

Active Member

Expert

Newbie

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Master

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency