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Thiamine deficiency in diabetics

I am going to try that as reading the thread I realised that doing keto means no marmite on toast or twiglets. I do have BP coffee and people think I am weird for doing that!
 
Thiamine now?

Is there anything else I should know about?

There are side effects and horror things for every day of the year. At some point nobody has told me about this or the 101 other ways it can hurt me, is there sose master list somewhere or all the things I should be doing and the ways I should be behaving for the best results or should we actually just admit that nobody really knows how type 1 works and it's all just random luck because that's what it looks like from here.
 

What we can say, is to keep blood glucose as low as practicable. Everyone agrees on that I think, and it has to be a diabetic's highest priority.

Beyond that, it's not clear at all. The 4 pathways for diabetic complications were idenitified by the early 90's, and there is broad agreement that they make sense. But how to affect these pathways, to minimise damage? One thing's for sure. It won't be done with just one wonder-drug. There are too many pathways, too many moving parts, involved.

Thiamine is a no-brainer for me, because it's cheap, and has no side-effects (except colouring your wee bright yellow)

If I had to suggest other items for a "Master List", I would go for:

Glycine & Cystine - for Glutathione synthesis - Aldose Reductase Inhibitor & master antioxidant. Found to be deficient due to increased use, in Diabetics.
Alpha-Lipoic Acid - Recycling of Glutathione within cells,
Vitamin C - Aldose Reductase inhibitor, and general anti-oxidant.
Metformin - Glyoxalase promoter
Leutine - Deficient in diabetics. Used in the retina, and I noticed an improvement in my vision after taking it, so I'm putting it here!

And there are many, many more to choose from. Scientific studies are out there, but they haven't been carried through to practise for a variety of reasons. Still, taking a few supplements at least makes me feel like I'm doing something positive
 
Hehe I'll have to work out how to drive this forum like that.


I've just tried this... It's delicious!
 

That list seems to be mainly for grains and meat substitutes.
Is there a touch of bias, I wonder?
Butter, cream, eggs, beef not mentioned at all!

Anyway it claims under 2 milligrams needed for an adult, and the pills from the usual suspect seem to be 100 mg so that should sort any issues of under supply.

I do wonder why, if it is so good for kidneys, why it isn't prescribed by default.
 
NoKindOfSusie said:
is there sose master list somewhere or all the things I should be doing and the ways I should be behaving for the best results
Click to expand...

Absolutely! The master list tells us that you should -

Experiment: find the right balance of insulin, carbs, activity and risk that work for you, that will let you eat and exercise with yes some - but not complete - limitation, while keeping good bs control. Keeping you mentally and physically fit.

Utilise: make use of the latest tools, insulins and techniques.

Confident: be positive, be relaxed and be bold in your behaviour. Like any task, difficult conversation, race, challenge, etc, when people approach it thinking "I can do this" research tells us the outcomes are also more positive.


NoKindOfSusie said:
or should we actually just admit that nobody really knows how type 1 works and it's all just random luck because that's what it looks like from here.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Just like cancer, alzheimers, acne, heart disease, aspergers, epilepsy, influenza, depression, parkinsons, migraines, PTSD... I could go on... the point being that most diseases / conditions are not understood, hence the hundreds of billions of pounds spent every year on medical research.

On T1 we know enough to say that the items on the master list are all important.
 

The list does include beef, nuts, liver, venison, pork, yeast, grains, relevant vegetables and a range of nuts and pulses. I think it caters for many dietary needs and predilections. I don’t know who did the initial research or how they were funded so I’m unable to comment on any bias.
 

With respect, there is no mention of beef.

I've looked again, and used the "search" function in case I was missing it, and it isn't mentioned.

It certainly doesn't help me work out what my diet has with regards to Thyamin as it doesn't mention beef, eggs, cheese, butter, double cream. It says vegetables and fruit but doesn't have a fruit category.

I suspect that it reflects the fairly polarised diet choice of the author.

Edit: or perhaps no explanation of why things are left out.

https://draxe.com/top-10-vitamin-b1-thiamine-foods/ is helpful (may not be accurate of course).
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/#h3 is also helpful because it lists things with little or no Thyamin.
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data4a.html has an exhaustive list - again I have no idea how accurate this is. Interestingly brazil nuts and bacon seem to be top of the list.
 
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You’re right, beef’s not there, and lists from other sources show eggs. I was sure I’d read beef when I checked it recently - maybe I need thiamine!!!! It’s interesting how varied some of the lists are, but there are some foods that appear in all of them.
 

Yes but above all those things about experimenting and being confident it also says "don't get high blood sugars or you will die a young blind amputee."
 
NoKindOfSusie said:
Yes but above all those things about experimenting and being confident it also says "don't get high blood sugars or you will die a young blind amputee."
Click to expand...

My parents sometimes remind me that in the first few weeks after dx, I was pretty strung out about the possibility of going blind and losing limbs. We had a few arguments - they would be trying to reassure me that everything would be fine, and I'd be, oh, like, how can you say that, people go blind from this. So, I can understand where you're coming from on this.

But time passes, and I reassessed things.

No-one can give you any guarantees about complications. It's been said that the best we can hope for with T1 in the long run is a no score draw.

But I reckon that we can score small goals along the way. Each time I go along for a review and get a decent a1c, that's a win. So is still feeling all the jabs with the foot prick test. And getting a no signs of diabetic eye changes letter after an eye test. Even the occasional ""early signs of eye changes" letter isn't all bad.

These tests are there for a reason - they are an early warning system to pick up on complications so they can be treated before they progress to anything serious.

I know you don't want contemplate being T1 for years and years.

But take it from an old timer: the fear of complications fades as time passes. It's something I still think about from time to time but I keep it in perspective, derived from the fact that even though I was a bit wayward in my twenties, I'm still running fine in my fifties.

I worry that your fear of complications is consuming you. Understandable as you are so recently dx'd. But try to take some reassurance from all the people who have been there and done that, that provided you make a decent effort to stay in range most of the time, you are massively improving your chances of avoiding complications.

Note I said "most of the time". The occasional short flyer up to 10, 12 or even 15 while you spend a bit of time experimenting with food, doses, timing will not do any long term damage.

Making some mistakes in the early days is inevitable, and it still happens in the later days because of the inherent unpredictability of T1, but the point is that going out of range from tine to time for short periods is not that big a deal in the long run, so don't be consumed by worries that you're doomed unless you're always between 4 and 7. That doesn't even happen in non-T1s.
 
Scott-C said:
I know you don't want contemplate being T1 for years and years.
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No I really, really, REALLY don't. I already feel like I've basically wasted the last roughly seven months and still failed at what I was trying to do so yeah. The idea of spending the next thirty years like this makes me think hmm, it isn't a death sentence, but you'd sort of wish it was.
 
@Scott-C You are so right, you have to have those high numbers sometimes to be able to learn from them. We are fortunate these days from the regime and technology available to see this.
In the past as you were aware things were done blind and you hoped for the best. I don’t believe we are seeing the results yet from this modern way of treatment. I am sure complications will be less commonplace.
 

You're still a trainee. You're still learning. Mistakes are inevitable. Learn from them. Push the boat out a bit on what you eat, escape those damned omelletes (although they're quite good once or twice a week with some capers and chestnut mushrooms), don't sweat it too much on going out of range, it will give you useful information on adjusting dosage and timing so will not be useless as you can use the mistake to adjust/adapt your approach for the next time.

I felt like you too in the early days. I'd go to restaurants and ask the waiter to put my insulin in the fridge for fear of it going off. Mad.

But I slowly and surely learned that there is a lot more leeway and latitude in this than first appears to be the case and the worries diminished. I put a lot of thought into staying in range but I don't sweat it too much about the occasional flyer as it doesn't mean that much in the bigger picture. I still bear complications in mind, but it's more of a healthy respect than fear.

You're an intelligent person, M, but don't overthink it.

You expressed an interest in libre/cgm in other threads. Please, please, please pursue that. It gives incredible peace of mind just being able to see the moving target instead of guessing with strips. I'm reasonably upbeat about my T1 these days purely because I can now see in glorious technicolour what I'm dealing with and make small tweaks and nudges to keep in line. It's almost like cheating compared to strips. I think it would give you much more confidence to experiment and get you out of what seems a monotonous diet.

Discover food again, with the added security of knowing that if you've overbolused you'll be getting a long heads up on a possible hypo and tail it off before it happens with a few g glucose (or even a Tunnocks!).

You'll get there in ways you'll probably not realise at the moment but you need to start taking risks and keep complications in perspective.
 
NoKindOfSusie said:
Yes but above all those things about experimenting and being confident it also says "don't get high blood sugars or you will die a young blind amputee."
Click to expand...

Almost! More like "don't get prolonged high blood sugars or you may die a young blind amputee".

That's why the master list includes experiment, for us to learn and stop us getting regularly high blood sugars.

Option 1 - a hugely limited diet and no exercise.
Option 2 - a balanced diet and exercise.

Option 1 is insanely risky! As well as boring, the health risks of inactivity are huge, physical and mental. Crazily risky in the long term.

Option 2 - requires some experimentation, and yes a little short term risk. But so easy nowadays with Libre. Over do the carbs, you spot a rapidly rising 8.4 and you can correct it before it becomes an 18.4. Option 2 gives you back the joy of running, what wonders that does for our health.

And pointing out the obvious, but pre-diagnosis we nearly all spent WEEKS in the 20s and 30s, a couple of hours here and there above 9 are no big deal now, especially if they're part of experiments that deliver option 2, the healthy option.

Think holistically. See the bigger picture.

You need to start taking less risks and get away from high risk option 1, instead take the less risky option 2.
 

Not sure if you're aware, but there is at least one clinician seriously trying to cure T1 diabetes. Denise Faustman is currently running the BCG Phase II trials over in the States. Definitely worth 10 minutes reading up about her research.

http://faustmanlab.org/docs/clinicalt/FaustmanLabFactSheet3a.pdf

So, who knows... in 2 years time we might get some amazing news (and she'd be a shoe-in for a Nobel)

In the meantime, I'm going to take the plunge and go for a Libre I think. Every thread on this forum seems to talk about them eventually, so I'm thinking they are definitely worth trying. I've been T1 for 20+ years, and haven't seen any changes in treatments available to me in that time. Am still doing exactly what I did back in the late nineties. Sounds like the Libre is a game-changer.
 
 
Go for it! I’ve been using Libre for 2 years now and it’s changed the way I control my diabetes. I’ve just had to spend 2 days without it - faulty sensor while away for weekend - and it feels like I’m working in the dark. I couldn’t wait to get home to fit a new one
 
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