phoenix said:
Even though people on forums are a fairly 'select' group it's worth remembering there will be people with unseen and possibly undisclosed barriers to self management. People don't reveal their all on the internet . People may have restricted incomes. They may have other illnesses, some may have dietary restrictions. They may have an eating disorder, mental illness.They may not know what a carb is nor yet be able to calculate them. We don't know
We are not one standard size.
I have said I accepted that Phoenix but what I won't except is that there is nothing that can't be done for these people. They may not be able to help themselves individually in which case its societies responsibility to help them. If they are for example T2D people who eat a rubbish diet and will not change no matter what then no amount of societies help is going to do much but if they are T2D people eating the 50% carb regime they are recommended to do by an increasingly out of touch state health system then the damage it cause in lives, blindness and lost limbs is on the hands of the people who recommend that diet and its supporters.
I have also never stated that other kinds of diet to the Swedish one I advocate will not work and the continual portrayal of me being an extremist pushing a single viewpoint is getting very tiresome and very see-through by everyone who reads these posts.
I just want that moderate carb diet accepted in this countries guidelines as an option and by this forum. It is not an option in the UK at the moment. I could argue the same thing back at you
"We are not one standard size" so why do you always tell everyone continually that a low GI diet is best. Same problem Phoenix. The difference is I have never seen you actively promote the moderate carb one whereas here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28107&hilit=Sarah&start=30
in the last two lines of my post I do recognise everyone is different and recommended your approach.
So come on Phoenix would you recommend the Swedish moderate carbohydrate restricted diet to a diabetic? Would you have recommended it to me as a newly diagnosed T2? I'll wait for your answer with interest. If you did come out with a "yes" then when as your "patient" I come back and say sorry Phoenix the 30% Swedish diet still spikes me too high as its equating to around 160g on a 2000 calorie a day diet would you then say "Try dropping to 130g / day" like the ADA in the States suggest. Waiting again Phoenix...
phoenix said:
In th UK in spite of what is promoted three quarters of the people aren't eating 5 portions of fruit and veg . Consumption is affected by income with "consumption associated with higher income, and vice versa" 32 per cent of men and 37 per cent of women in the best off households ate 5 or more but only 18 per cent of men and 19 per cent of women in the lowest quintile did so.”
People eat more saturated fat than recommended. They may eat nearly fifty percent of their diet as carbohydrate (48%) but 46% of those carbs are sugar!(29% of the carbs come in the form of added sugar .. technically from non milk extrinsic sugars ie not from milk or from within the plant cell. )
Again a plain baffle us with science approach.
All that you say may be true and whatever state sponsored diet is in place there will always be those who ignore it. Lets for sake of argument call that a 50 / 50 split (no idea what that split is) so in that scenario no matter what diet is recommended 50% are going be unaffected by any recommendation.
For the 50% left who are told if you get T2 then it **** well makes one hell of a difference if you find out the state encouraged diet kills you and that if you adopted another diet it would save your life. That happened to me Phoenix and a lot of other T2's on this forum and that's what you and the others wont ever admit.
On the 50% that wont change then you still don't give up. You fight for every **** last one of them even if they don't realise you're doing them a favour. You do it through interventionist policies by promoting good diets, making it financially attractive to swap to a good diet all those kind of things. You don't just throw your hands up and go "woe is me" I can't help them. That is self defeatist rubbish. In fact not fighting tooth and nail for every individual is tantamount to saying those people aren't worth saving, sounds like eugenics to me.
phoenix said:
The Swedish diet guidelines , rightly in my opinion , don't suggest the impostion of any particular diet
Good we agree on something as that's what I say here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28402 when I explain my position.
phoenix said:
Changing as little as possible is often successful in counseling about diets. In simple terms, the existing diet often become more like any of the diets that may be helpful in diabetes without the patient fully must abandon their previous eating habit.......
So as a T1.5 yourself and as say a newly diagnosed T1 you would not recommend changing your current diet quickly if they were on a rubbish diet? Are we T2's less important to you somehow? Tell us the truth about our condition and see how many of us WANT to change our diets pretty **** quickly! That argument is nothing less than the equivalent of don't give T2's test strips as it sends them mad. Didn't send you as LADA mad did it?
phoenix said:
One said' Many people' told the association that they were rarely called to see a doctor and never saw a nurse or dietitian.Several said they do not get any blood glucose meter, but only one value during the visit. (and indeed they have been fighting for strips for T2)
But yet they have implemented some changes Phoenix and continue to do so. Just because they aren't perfect doesn't make them more legitimate than the NHS view here does it.
I will restate what the doc says is a good diet for a diabetic. It has no numbers, no carbs, but specifically states it is different from a normal diabetic diet.
The diet consists of meat, fish, shellfish, eggs, vegetables, legumes and vegetable proteins and fats from olive oil and butter. The diet includes less sugar, bread, cereals, potatoes, root vegetables and rice than a traditional diabetes diet.