Tiredness and sleep problems

Paulgn1 said:

The fitbit gives you a good indication, it shows deep, light and REM sleep. It uses movement and heart rate patterns, it shows that I'm in deep sleep for only about an hour a night, usually less. I'm not overweight and I don't snore. I'll see how the magnesium supplements go first I think. Thank you.

Click to expand...

The fitbit would probably show periods of increased heart rate if you were having noticeable sleep apnoea events, but I think if they were small it might not. A typical sleep cycle is 90 minutes so 15-20 minutes of that might be deep sleep, give or take. A person might have 4 cycles in 6-7 hours of sleep. With severe apnoea the person wouldn't get into deep sleep much at all, as far as I know. I hope the magnesium helps.

Paulgn1 said:

Hopefully not sleep apnoea, my friend wears one of those oxygen masks. Don't fancy going to sleep with an insulin pump and a face mask.

Click to expand...

There are lots of different kinds of masks, some are really small and only sit on your nostrils. If a person has sleep apnoea, the benefits of getting it treated far outweigh any inconvenience. Like I said there are other sleep disorders, some are treatable with drugs. I recommend chatting with your doctor about it if you want to make sure all your cases are covered. Disrupted sleep can wreck your health long term. Better safe than sorry IMO.

I sleep a lot better with magnesium but was suprised when I started with my fitbit how poor my sleep was. I lose broadly an hour every night where it classifies me as awake.

Ask your GP to test vitamin D and B12 levels too. I was low and felt shattered all the time.

I am T2. It varies but I sometimes have to get up 2 or 3 times during the night to go to the toilet. So then often tired the next day. Not such a problem if I sleep through or just wake up once.

Paulgn1 said:

I've tried the doctors route years ago and got fobbed off with sleeping tablets, I think sleep apnoea is more in the public eye now so I think I will try that route again. Thanks, do you suffer from sleep apnoea?

Click to expand...

I have had sleep apnoeia for years. I was first diagnosed with paroxysmal (occasional) atrial fibrillation and then myself found out that sleep apnoeia may trigger AF, so got myself referred to a sleep clinic. For years I managed my SA with a plastic device that I wore in my mouth in bed. This was called a "mandibular responding splint" and was made for me by an orthodontist. These are only supposed to work for mild to moderate SA. Eventually my top front teeth began to loosen under the strain of the splint, so I discontinued it. Eventually another sleep test showed that I was now having 30+ "events" of sleep apnoeia per hour. No wonder I felt tired in the afternoons!

I now use a ventilator, similar to a CPAP machine but more sophisticated. The hard part was finding a mask that was reasonably comfortable. My first mask was so agonising, I almost gave up. Nowadays sleeping with the machine is no problem.

I read recently that SA is a risk factor for diabetes!

Paulgn1 said:

I've tried the doctors route years ago and got fobbed off with sleeping tablets, I think sleep apnoea is more in the public eye now so I think I will try that route again. Thanks, do you suffer from sleep apnoea?

Click to expand...

Yes, I have sleep apnoea. It took many years for me to get the doctors to help. They fobbed me off, and I think they often do that with sleep disorders. Most people don't know if there is a problem with the quality of their sleep. Tiredness is one of the hardest things for doctors to evaluate, but with a sleep study and certain blood tests they can usually narrow down the cause.

Alexandra100 said:

I have had sleep apnoeia for years. I was first diagnosed with paroxysmal (occasional) atrial fibrillation and then myself found out that sleep apnoeia may trigger AF, so got myself referred to a sleep clinic. For years I managed my SA with a plastic device that I wore in my mouth in bed. This was called a "mandibular responding splint" and was made for me by an orthodontist. These are only supposed to work for mild to moderate SA. Eventually my top front teeth began to loosen under the strain of the splint, so I discontinued it. Eventually another sleep test showed that I was now having 30+ "events" of sleep apnoeia per hour. No wonder I felt tired in the afternoons!

I now use a ventilator, similar to a CPAP machine but more sophisticated. The hard part was finding a mask that was reasonably comfortable. My first mask was so agonising, I almost gave up. Nowadays sleeping with the machine is no problem.

I read recently that SA is a risk factor for diabetes!

Click to expand...

I have sleep apnoea too, and was similar to your numbers when diagnosed. There is definitely a link between Type 2 diabetes and sleep apnoea. Other disorders that often coincide with SA are hypertension, depression, gastric reflux, and teeth grinding. Aside from being a nuisance of a condition to have, it can lead to serious issues like stroke and heart disease if left untreated. Too many doctors still ignore it or play it down.

Hello All,
I had very similar sleep problems, but my GP thought it was nothing to do with my diabetes, and booked me in for a sleep apnea test,
Then a was shocked, with the results it turns out i stop breathing 25 times, and my brain wakes up 35 times in 1 hours sleep.
I was then put on a machine, and although not 100% greatly improved, but STRESS is a real issue,. This is my own experience but i thought it was worth mentioning.
Hope this may help Kind Regards
Toby

toby64 said:

Hello All,
I had very similar sleep problems, but my GP thought it was nothing to do with my diabetes, and booked me in for a sleep apnea test,
Then a was shocked, with the results it turns out i stop breathing 25 times, and my brain wakes up 35 times in 1 hours sleep.
I was then put on a machine, and although not 100% greatly improved, but STRESS is a real issue,. This is my own experience but i thought it was worth mentioning.
Hope this may help Kind Regards
Toby

Click to expand...

Hi Toby, if your symptoms haven't improved enough, I encourage you to get further help from your doctor and/or sleep physiologist who can tweak your CPAP therapy so it works better. There are lots of ways to do this.

Thanks Jenny yes i have an appointment coming up just to do that.

Regards Toby

Mel dCP said:

Yeah, steady, in range BGs are so important for getting good sleep. And good sleep is key to getting good levels. It’s a vicious circle Are you in any pain or discomfort at night? Is there anything you can change about your environment that may help? My beloved husband snores dreadfully, so sometimes to break the poor sleep/poor levels cycle I sleep in another room for a few nights just to reset.

Click to expand...

Does he perhaps have sleep apnoea ? Just a thought.

kitedoc said:

Does he perhaps have sleep apnoea ? Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Sort of. He had a horrendous attack of viral encephalitis back in 2010, which not only chewed through some areas of his brain, completely screwing up the filing system for his memory, but it also attacked the soft tissue at the top of his sinuses, causing significant necrosis and associated damage. He’s had major surgery to clear the dead tissue away, it the snoring persists. There’s literally no other avenue to go down for it - and he does have disturbed sleep as a result, because his breathing is disrupted. So while it’s not classic sleep apnoea, with the typical causes, he has many of the symptoms. I measured the volume of his snoring, he comes in at 103 decibels. Equivalent to a jet taking off at 300m. He’s quite proud of that

Mel dCP said:

Sort of. He had a horrendous attack of viral encephalitis back in 2010, which not only chewed through some areas of his brain, completely screwing up the filing system for his memory, but it also attacked the soft tissue at the top of his sinuses, causing significant necrosis and associated damage. He’s had major surgery to clear the dead tissue away, it the snoring persists. There’s literally no other avenue to go down for it - and he does have disturbed sleep as a result, because his breathing is disrupted. So while it’s not classic sleep apnoea, with the typical causes, he has many of the symptoms. I measured the volume of his snoring, he comes in at 103 decibels. Equivalent to a jet taking off at 300m. He’s quite proud of that

Click to expand...

Wow, what a story of survival... that's a scary condition to have had.

Did his surgeons address the issue of his sleep breathing at the time? ie by mentioning the problem and the need for a sleep study of some kind and looking into whether any treatment options for sleep apnoea might help? His is a rare type of case but that shouldn't mean he and you just have to put up with it, if there is something that might help. And that decibel level of snoring may be risking hearing loss for both of you.

I have sleep apnoea and before diagnosis my life was falling apart from the daytime sleepiness and other issues.

I hope you are both able to have the best health possible in the circumstances.

51 years on insulin in Oz.
In 2011 I was diagnosed with sleep apnoea. I am of a normal weight but had noticed that if my nose was blocked with the effects of a cold, i could not keep lying down flat because I could not breathe.. It turned out that I had a palette (roof of mouth) that travelled back so far that when I was laying on my back in particular, my airway would block off. A sleep test, diagnosis and CPAP (Continuous Pressure Apnoea Pump)machine use and I have been as right as rain. Also people with sleep untreated/undiagnosed sleep apnoea are more prone to driving accidents since they sleep poorly and may drift off to sleep at the wheel. So I am allowed to keep my driver's license if I control my diabetes AND maintain my use of CPAP. I understand that being overweight is another possible factor in some people getting sleep apnoea and that makes it more likely in T2D.
So, as others have said, OSA ( Obstructive Sleep Apnoea) is a possible cause of poor sleep.
For me, having coffee or other caffeine containing beverage after 4 pm keeps me awake at night.
Also I suffer with Restless Legs Syndrome. (RLS). Before it was treated I would wake in the morning tired and exhausted. And my wife was annoyed because I was restless and kicking about with my legs all night. ( the doctor asked her about nighttime and made the diagnosis without needing my input !!). With medication on board for RLS AND provided I do not drink > 3 cups of coffee per day all is well.
Having some exercise during the day helps me to sleep.
If I am working on a project, the details sometimes revolve endlessly in my mind work at night. If I can get up write down my brilliant thoughts, designs and analysis I can then sleep and re-evaluate my 'brilliance' in the sober light of morning.
Having a TV in the bedroom and watching scary movies at night there, or reading a book in bed are bad for sleep.
Sexual activity at night might keep you awake for a time or leave you blissfully tired and sleepy.
I have heard of people taking alcohol at night to help sleep. It never seems to work. And is not a good habit to get into.
Sweet dreams !

kitedoc said:

Having a TV in the bedroom and watching scary movies at night there, or reading a book in bed are bad for sleep.
Sexual activity at night might keep you awake for a time or leave you blissfully tired and sleepy.
I have heard of people taking alcohol at night to help sleep. It never seems to work. And is not a good habit to get into.
Sweet dreams !

Click to expand...

I agree with you about TV and reading, based on all the research that's been done on it, but I'm one of the lucky people who is helped by TV or reading in bed. For some reason I usually don't make it through more than a couple of pages of a book before I'm sleepy. I don't have a TV in my room these days but if I did, anything except scary movies would also do the trick.

Now that I'm on CPAP I don't like to risk falling asleep without my mask on, so there's no more reading in bed I'm afraid.

Just a couple of carefully chosen meds, a comfortable bed and room, and the radio on quietly, set to switch off within an hour. Bliss.

Jenny15 said:

Wow, what a story of survival... that's a scary condition to have had.

Did his surgeons address the issue of his sleep breathing at the time? ie by mentioning the problem and the need for a sleep study of some kind and looking into whether any treatment options for sleep apnoea might help? His is a rare type of case but that shouldn't mean he and you just have to put up with it, if there is something that might help. And that decibel level of snoring may be risking hearing loss for both of you.

I have sleep apnoea and before diagnosis my life was falling apart from the daytime sleepiness and other issues.

I hope you are both able to have the best health possible in the circumstances.

Click to expand...

It was terrifying, he nearly didn’t survive. They’ve done extensive sleep studies, and everything has been done that can be - including extremely dangerous surgery in his upper nasal passages. As for hearing loss, he lost around 50% of his hearing in the viral attack, and it’s left him with horrendous tinnitus. He had to sleep with his iPod playing all night to drown it out and get any sleep. He suffers with extreme fatigue during the day because of all this, and usually spends his work breaks having catnaps. For night time, I have industrial grade aluminium earplugs, which I originally bought for gigs, but don’t wear as they block too much sound. And I can still hear the snoring

Paulgn1 said:

I've started using the libre, struggling to afford the patches at the moment but I believe they're coming on prescription soon. It doesn't seem to matter if my bloods are perfect or high I still feel tired.

Click to expand...

I wanted to use Libre for this very reason. Unfortunately the only place I have found the sensors lately is Amazon at £74 a time and that's out of my budget. My GP says my surgery doesn't put them on prescription. I've tried Boots, Lloyds and Superdrug just Asda to go. Anyone have any other suggestions!!!!

Try a heaped tspoon of L-Glutamine before bed sleep like a baby