Type 1: Prescription fine

Maelstrom · Mar 2, 2015

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I did a bit of googling and found these freedom of information requests

https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=5115

https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=4961

https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=4939

https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=4934

And I did manage to find a point of dispensing check booklet from 1999 that has an image of the much talked about old paper style exemption certificate though its a bit blurry

http://www.cohenschemistonline.co.uk/images/docs/prescriptions_and_exemptions.pdf

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

coolcity said:
Just a quick reminder to everybody that there is no law saying you have to pay for your prescription when it is issued to you at the pharmacy. So if you get a penalty charge notice, ask them on what basis they are charging you (or fining you, if you prefer, though it's not a fine). There is nothing to stop you saying that you simply haven't paid for it yet, and there is no legislation in place to charge you for late payments - it's not quite the same as overstaying your time in a car park.

Don't pay a penny if you are entitled, but if you have't obtained the correct documentation, such as the certificate, pay for the one prescription. Once it's paid they have no reason to charge you for anything.

I repeat, there is NOTHING to say you must have paid for your prescription at the time you received the medication so basically they're screwed if they try to take you to court later for the unpaid charge, because they have nothing to charge you for.

Incidentally, as for signing the form, I never have - most pharmacies just ask me if I pay for my prescriptions and then sign it themselves (I buy the annual prepayment card as I have to pay for mine). I don't know what they have signed, so where's the proof I didn't actually pay for it? Again, you don't have to prove you paid, there is no legislation that says you do!

I will let u know how i get on .i have paid for this prescription now.as i got not realising mec was out od date.after years of pharmacy not asking as i had one in 03.

coolcity said:
Just a quick reminder to everybody that there is no law saying you have to pay for your prescription when it is issued to you at the pharmacy. So if you get a penalty charge notice, ask them on what basis they are charging you (or fining you, if you prefer, though it's not a fine). There is nothing to stop you saying that you simply haven't paid for it yet, and there is no legislation in place to charge you for late payments - it's not quite the same as overstaying your time in a car park.

Don't pay a penny if you are entitled, but if you have't obtained the correct documentation, such as the certificate, pay for the one prescription. Once it's paid they have no reason to charge you for anything.

I repeat, there is NOTHING to say you must have paid for your prescription at the time you received the medication so basically they're screwed if they try to take you to court later for the unpaid charge, because they have nothing to charge you for.

Incidentally, as for signing the form, I never have - most pharmacies just ask me if I pay for my prescriptions and then sign it themselves (I buy the annual prepayment card as I have to pay for mine). I don't know what they have signed, so where's the proof I didn't actually pay for it? Again, you don't have to prove you paid, there is no legislation that says you do!

Right paid for the presciption now.after not realising out of date.so no basis for penalty.i will let u know how i get on .

Mr TEL · Mar 2, 2015

molivers73 said:
Hi I have just received a letter saying i have to pay a £96 fine for not having a valid medical exemption certificate. I was diagnosed Type 1 in 1998 and have never paid for prescriptions since. Nobody has ever told me about this. Has anyone else had the same thing and if so what was the outcome?

There are people in this world who seem determined make life as difficult as possible for us diabetics. I've been diabetic since 1970, and have experienced this from teachers, employers, airport staff, bouncers and practice managers to name but a few. You're certainly not alone; a few years ago I was told that my exemption card needed renewing, and so went about getting it updated. Despite me supplying all the relevant information, they swore they had no records of me ever having one. I then had to go through all the hassle of starting from scratch, including a signed letter from the GP.

Your best bet is to write to them, explaining everything as you have done on here. Hopefully they'll waive the fine, or maybe telephone them in the hope that you might get to speak to a real human being. Ignore the nasty comments on here.

Mr TEL · Mar 2, 2015

Brian_H said:
^ I like that pdf of the 1999 dispensing check booklet. I downloaded it and zoomed in.

There are two versions of the "FP92" medical exemption certificate, a bit blurry as you say, but still readable if you zoom in ......... on pages 23 and 24. It's interesting to read at the foot of page 24 .....

It is necessary for a patient to have an exemption certificate, not simply the medical
condition, to qualify for this exemption. Nevertheless, pharmacists who know that any of
their regular patients suffer from a specified medical condition, either through knowledge
of their drug regime or from clinical knowledge of the patient, need not ask for an
exemption certificate when supplying a prescribed item. Pharmacists are, however, asked
to remind such patients from time to time of the need to apply for an exemption certificate
and to keep it up to date.

I presume that the pharmacies that I have been going to have been using that mantra, apart from the bit that is underlined !!!!

However, this was superseded in 2013 by the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical and Local Pharmaceutical Services) Regulations 2013 in particular section 7 (3) .....extract below ...

Before providing any drugs or appliances in accordance with a prescription form or a repeatable prescription, Pharmacy must ask any person who makes a declaration that the person named on the prescription form or the repeatable prescription does not have to pay the charges ..........to produce satisfactory evidence of such entitlement .....

Full text can be read here ....... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/349/schedule/4/part/2/made

Great post!! I think you've just shed some light on what's really going on here.

Seriously_Sax1989 · Mar 2, 2015

Well I've got my certificate and went to pick up my Levemir last week, the pharmacist handed me my levemir but didn't give me the paperwork to sign so I asked about it and he replied there was no problem because he would sign it! Now I'm not sure what's been said to who and when but it seems we're all being told different things!

Fujifilm · Mar 2, 2015

My situation is slightly different, I received a letter in August to say that my certificate was about to expire. So I filled in the form and posted it with a covering letter to my doctor and I still have the covering letter. As far as I was aware it was done. My Mum asked me last week if I had a certificate because she had read about the fines.

So today I phoned them to enquire why no certificate had been sent, they said they had no record of a form being sent in by my doctor!

They made note on the system that I had called. Today I went to the doctor filled in another form.

The chances are I am now going to get fined for not having a valid certificate for six months. Even though as far I was concerned the Doctor had sent it.

The nice lady on the phone told me it was my responsibility to have a valid certificate and proof that I had filled in a form and given it to the doctor was not enough! My suggestion to everyone is do not rely on your doctor sending the form, send it yourself recorded delivery. Although it appears even that is not enough you will still get fined.

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

softgirl123 said:
its all dirty and seems to me very diliberate.trying to get money from people in a dirty way.taking this word out and that word out.so easy to be tripped up.scandlous.

yes and thank you.

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Seriously_Sax1989 said:
Well I've got my certificate and went to pick up my Levemir last week, the pharmacist handed me my levemir but didn't give me the paperwork to sign so I asked about it and he replied there was no problem because he would sign it! Now I'm not sure what's been said to who and when but it seems we're all being told different things!

and i have mine.cant wait to use it..its so confusing for people.people not sure what to do.,its all guess work.if u cant beat them join them.we have to be as smart .find that loop hole..

Gaz-M · Mar 2, 2015

filled the form in a week gone Friday, went to the Dr,s to put a prescription in and asked if it had been posted as I have not heard anything yet and getting really low on some meds. It only got sent off this Friday slow or what?

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Brian_H said:
^ I like that pdf of the 1999 dispensing check booklet. I downloaded it and zoomed in.

There are two versions of the "FP92" medical exemption certificate, a bit blurry as you say, but still readable if you zoom in ......... on pages 23 and 24. It's interesting to read at the foot of page 24 .....

It is necessary for a patient to have an exemption certificate, not simply the medical
condition, to qualify for this exemption. Nevertheless, pharmacists who know that any of
their regular patients suffer from a specified medical condition, either through knowledge
of their drug regime or from clinical knowledge of the patient, need not ask for an
exemption certificate when supplying a prescribed item. Pharmacists are, however, asked
to remind such patients from time to time of the need to apply for an exemption certificate
and to keep it up to date.

I presume that the pharmacies that I have been going to have been using that mantra, apart from the bit that is underlined !!!!

However, this was superseded in 2013 by the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical and Local Pharmaceutical Services) Regulations 2013 in particular section 7 (3) .....extract below ...

Before providing any drugs or appliances in accordance with a prescription form or a repeatable prescription, Pharmacy must ask any person who makes a declaration that the person named on the prescription form or the repeatable prescription does not have to pay the charges ..........to produce satisfactory evidence of such entitlement .....

Full text can be read here ....... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/349/schedule/4/part/2/made[/QUOTE]well still it might not count now .if it was changed in 2013.but applyed at the time when mine was out of date.got mine in 03.so should of renewed in 08 in my adding up.but all these years this never happened.or 09.adding up on my fingers.it was nov when it was all brought to light as i moved chemist..moved house in between.and sorry but could not remember what a letter said in 03.never thought about it just kept on collecting and signing in good faith.

angelicbaby · Mar 2, 2015

Looks like the fools at the NHS Business Service Authority did not consider the amount of Medical Exemption forms they would receive in the period after their clampdown and now there looks to be a backlog of cards waiting to be sent to patients. Hope you receive your card shortly. If you have to get your meds, please ask the chemist for a receipt form FP57 and pay for the prescription. The form should explain how to obtain your refund from the NHSBSA.

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Gaz-M said:
filled the form in a week gone Friday, went to the Dr,s to put a prescription in and asked if it had been posted as I have not heard anything yet and getting really low on some meds. It only got sent off this Friday slow or what?

i believe it takes 7 to 10 working days.from when nhsbsa receive it.unless they have changed the length of time it takes.!

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

angelicbaby said:
Looks like the fools at the NHS Business Service Authority did not consider the amount of Medical Exemption forms they would receive in the period after their clampdown and now there looks to be a backlog of cards waiting to be sent to patients. Hope you receive your card shortly. If you have to get your meds, please ask the chemist for a receipt form FP57 and pay for the prescription. The form should explain how to obtain your refund from the NHSBSA.

may be they should be given a penaltry.if they cant do it in 7 to 10 days.!and practice what they preach..better go b4 i say too much,

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Fujifilm said:
My situation is slightly different, I received a letter in August to say that my certificate was about to expire. So I filled in the form and posted it with a covering letter to my doctor and I still have the covering letter. As far as I was aware it was done. My Mum asked me last week if I had a certificate because she had read about the fines.

So today I phoned them to enquire why no certificate had been sent, they said they had no record of a form being sent in by my doctor!

They made note on the system that I had called. Today I went to the doctor filled in another form.

The chances are I am now going to get fined for not having a valid certificate for six months. Even though as far I was concerned the Doctor had sent it.

The nice lady on the phone told me it was my responsibility to have a valid certificate and proof that I had filled in a form and given it to the doctor was not enough! My suggestion to everyone is do not rely on your doctor sending the form, send it yourself recorded delivery. Although it appears even that is not enough you will still get fined.

i would do a special delivery to make sure it gets there but 6pounds 40..if i have remembered right.as isent penalty this way.or very least send it recorded delivery.about 2pounds i think.all leters i would fax if possable and keep what u faxed.same thing happened to me at mone i was waiting for an eye appointment but it never come went last week .letter got lost.sent to doc in june.last year.

Bigwatty · Mar 2, 2015

Just to add my experience - type 1 for 42 years never had to fill any forms (maybe my parents did but they both died some years ago). As a result of the penalty charge notice I have written to Jeremy Hunt secretary of state for health, my local MP, who wrote to the chair of the NHSBSA, the CEO of the NHSBSA, and am now in phase two of their complaints procedure. I will not pay the fine unless ordered to do by a court. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in a criminal court but in cases like this, where there have been changes in procedures that nobody has been told about it seems fair.

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Bigwatty said:
Just to add my experience - type 1 for 42 years never had to fill any forms (maybe my parents did but they both died some years ago). As a result of the penalty charge notice I have written to Jeremy Hunt secretary of state for health, my local MP, who wrote to the chair of the NHSBSA, the CEO of the NHSBSA, and am now in phase two of their complaints procedure. I will not pay the fine unless ordered to do by a court. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in a criminal court but in cases like this, where there have been changes in procedures that nobody has been told about it seems fair.

i am sure it will be all sorted out .people have had penaltrys waived.as a ruleis i have seen it on herethat u cantnot give a penalty to someone unless they do something knowingly.people have been adviced to pay for one prescription.to avoild the penaltry.think they dont have a basis for a penaltry.if u read some of these posts .it gives u hope.u learn things from the people on here.its the principle of all this.but i am sure it will get sorted.it could take some time though .i bet there are alot of complaints going through.mean while apply for your medical excemption certificate.and u have all the suport of all the lovely people on here.good luck.

softgirl123 · Mar 2, 2015

Seriously_Sax1989 said:
Well I've got my certificate and went to pick up my Levemir last week, the pharmacist handed me my levemir but didn't give me the paperwork to sign so I asked about it and he replied there was no problem because he would sign it! Now I'm not sure what's been said to who and when but it seems we're all being told different things!

as long as u have got that medical excemption certificate.guard it with your dear life!

Samg · Mar 3, 2015

Hi all, am new here but not to diabetes
Have received penalty charge for exemption card being out of date, which most certainly was but I had no idea it was important to my entitlement to free prescriptions. Have applied for new card and rang to explain all this thinking it would be fine, apparently not, was told that it wasn't my diabetes that made me exempt from charges but the card (which I am entitled to because of the diabetes) uhhhhh
What will happen if I refuse to pay

Samg · Mar 3, 2015

Brian_H said:
If you read back through the last 10 pages of this thread, you should be able to find out what to do.

Basically there is an appeal process, but the people on the phone will tell you that there is no appeal process. They are wrong, the appeal process is on the NHSBSA website (link is in a couple of posts several pages back). Also, there is NHS legislation in 2013 that says how the pharmacies should be handling customers who tick box E (see post on previous page).

The people on the phones want to scare you into paying, but, NHSBSA has no legislative power to make you pay, their only recourse would be to take you to County Court (which is a "civil" action). This will never happen because they would have to show how they incurred a loss (if at all).

I have written an appeal to them as I got fed up with the nonsense that I kept getting on the phone.

Thanks for that will have a look now

softgirl123 · Mar 3, 2015

Samg said:
Hi all, am new here but not to diabetes
Have received penalty charge for exemption card being out of date, which most certainly was but I had no idea it was important to my entitlement to free prescriptions. Have applied for new card and rang to explain all this thinking it would be fine, apparently not, was told that it wasn't my diabetes that made me exempt from charges but the card (which I am entitled to because of the diabetes) uhhhhh
What will happen if I refuse to pay

not sure ,u couldbe taken to court.some1 on here pay for the perscription u shouldnt have to i know.then they have no basis for a penaltry .i have done this but not heard anything yet .they dont seem to answer the emails.make be they r checking there wording .and the law about this.i will let u know.

Type 1: Prescription fine

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