Type 3c Diabetes

sean1964 said:

Hello all! Happy Christmas!!

I have diabetes as a result of chronic panc.

Does that mean It will be "brittle".

As it happens I have terrible trouble controlling my BS.

Sean

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Hi @sean1964 not all people who have pancreatitis will have type 3C. Type 3C is never diabetes on its own and is always as a part of wider permenant pancreatic problems. Type 3C is still a very rare form of diabetes and whilst some type 3Cs are diagnosed as type 1or2, the need for other treatment for the diminishment/destruction of both the exocrine and endocrine systems are usually indicators towards a diagnoses. Can I suggest you read the link in my post in this thread (#13). I'm not around much today but will be happy to try and answer any questions later (or @Shar67) may be about).

I did read your post,and the link,

Thanks for your reply, the question i had is in the above post. Cheers.

FYI
Question was "is all type 3 brittle?"

Answer, thanks Shar67,
"Hi Sean, type 3c people are not necessarily brittle but it does mean you can have unexpected hypos/hypers"

I'm trying to get this straight in my mind, i'm trying to think in venn diagrams ......so... with the above in mind i have another

What is /causes brittle diabetes?

The glucagon bit......the important bit (?) how does that work please.
Would non-production of ?? from the liver affect the base level on insulin requirement?

Thanks, Sean

sean1964 said:

I did read your post,and the link,

Thanks for your reply, the question i had is in the above post. Cheers.

FYI
Question was "is all type 3 brittle?"

Answer, thanks Shar67,
"Hi Sean, type 3c people are not necessarily brittle but it does mean you can have unexpected hypos/hypers"

I'm trying to get this straight in my mind, i'm trying to think in venn diagrams ......so... with the above in mind i have another

What is /causes brittle diabetes?

The glucagon bit......the important bit (?) how does that work please.
Would non-production of ?? from the liver affect the base level on insulin requirement?

Thanks, Sean

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Hi, any answers on these about please.....thanks Sean

Don't believe there has been enough research to say what causes it, but hypothyroidism, stress and depression have all been thought to be a reason to why it can be brittle.

All types of diabetes can be brittle if a person is having hypos/hypers without reason.

People who have had a TP or pancreas has completely stopped functioning have so many other things happening within their bodies stress and depression are common though personal experience this seems to be overlooked as small in the over all scale of problems

Fantastic! Thanks Shar.
You wont get an answer like that from my hospital!

Not sure the stress / depression thing, sounds rubbish to me. Pain would be a better stab in the dark maybe.
Sure there are loads of variables with defunct pancreas.

Amazing but not surprising there is no research into it.

From another thread I thought it might be to do with non-functioning alpha cells which would be = type 3c

leather_ferret said:

Hi folks,

Looking for information on Type 3c Diabetes aka Pancreatitis diabetes. This is a little known form of brittle Diabetes characterised by rapid and large Hi/Lo & Lo/Hi swings in BGLs.

Chronic pancreatitis, apart from one of the most painful things that can ever, ever happen to you, basically kills off the pancreas over a period leading to no insulin production at all. Fine and dandy and on the face of it treatable in the same way as Type 1

Now for the awkward part. As the pancreas self-digests and dies off, it kills off not just the Beta cells that produce insulin, but also the alpha cells that produce Glucagon, the enzyme that instructs the Liver to convert Glucogen into Glucose when blood sugars are low.

So with the insulin/blood sugar uptake, and the Glucagon/'Liver glucose top up' mechanisms stuffed there are bound to be additional problems in control.

I just can't seem to find any reliable info on the web.

Anyone out there with this problem or knowledge of it please ??

be good and be lucky

Dave

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hi ive had chronic pancreatitis calcified since i was 20 im now 48 and to be honest it does not bother me at all i eat wot i want and when i want theres history in my family sis has t1 and 2 uncles have pancreatitis my mum was allso diagnosed with pancreas problems anyway doctors have always told me i would end up insulin dependant afew months ago i was struggling to control my sugar levels so went to see docter he said o dear you are t1 now heres your in sulin i said no give me some different tablets and he did hey presto feel great no probs for thje last six months so reckon doctors are quick to condem you to a life of worry about your condition anyway ive had the condition that long that i know wot i can eat and wot i cant ha i can fart now without messing my pants for years and years i was led to believe my problems were due to alcholism which i had avoided for years after until met 2 uncles who have same condition mine is most definately hereditery

mrspuddleduck said:

Hi @leather_ferret, great first thread! Could I just point out the type 3C is not just caused by pancreatitis. Mine was caused by the necrosis/atrophy/calcification due to a rare (but becoming more common) autoimmune disease! Also many 'pancreatitis diabetics' are type 2, dependant on the extent of the damage to the pancreas and whether the alpha cells are damaged/destroyed. Sue xx

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Hi Sue ~ great information, can you tell me what test(s) are needed to find out the extent of damage I may have. I've always have been treated as a type 2 ~ but I've been very leery of this and in trying to get into remission has not been fruitful. Thanks

Hi @carebear2, firstly you will be insulin dependant if you are not then you don't have 3c
Blood test for alpha and beta cells, scan or MRI to show damage. Or if you have panc removed completely

Hi I too suffer from chronic pancreatitis and 6 weeks ago my hba1c test come back as 97 so the doctor said you are type 2 and packed me on my way with metformin 500mg 1 daily so I requested a c-peptide and GAD test which will let me no how how much natural insolin my pancrease is making,but the local district diabetes nurse who I saw yesterday says cause I'm on gliclazide 80mg morning/evening meal (she says my liver and body are working with med but she would like to get me off metformin slow regease)
My liver is fine but the only thing about them 2 tests it could take weeks to come back so I tried a low carb diet for a week and it dropped my levels from 32 to lowest 10


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Badboydavey1 said:

Hi I too suffer from chronic pancreatitis and 6 weeks ago my hba1c test come back as 97 so the doctor said you are type 2 and packed me on my way with metformin 500mg 1 daily so I requested a c-peptide and GAD test which will let me no how how much natural insolin my pancrease is making,but the local district diabetes nurse who I saw yesterday says cause I'm on gliclazide 80mg morning/evening meal (she says my liver and body are working with med but she would like to get me off metformin slow regease)
My liver is fine but the only thing about them 2 tests it could take weeks to come back so I tried a low carb diet for a week and it dropped my levels from 32 to lowest 10


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Do you see a panc specialist?

My doctor wouldn't refer me back to him so I rang him myself and I see him on the 29th June and if you was wondering if I put a complaint in about my doctor the answer is yes


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Depending on damage to panc and results of blood test (10 weeks is way to long). You maybe 3c, but even if your not you deserve to be treated better than GP has done so far

Hi all ,not been on here since was type 2 , but I had a partial pancreatomy & splenectomy at the end of Feb ,have been back in hospital as I had another ugly cyst , I don't have much panky left and am fully insulin dependant,have been told by my diabetes nurse she classes me type 1 but thought I'd post on here as it's pancreatic related , this morning however woke up in a right tizz ,my sugars were 21.9 so was disorientated to the max , only had a slice of toast with my usual Creon after having morning toiui insulin and long lasting bow they've dramatically dropped to 6.0 ,very sleepy and dopey but ok ,thing is didn't want to go to a & e ,what do I do in future if happens again , it happened in hospital so was in the best place and in 24.0 and up , I have been having all of hypos but manage with them , just trying a new insulin last few weeks so slowly seeing results,sorry for the waffle guys ,what to do?

Do you have a meter to test for ketones.
For ease of doctors that only believe in type 1 or 2 we are treated as type 1, though you are more likely to suffer from hypo/hyper as a type 3c, personally, I treat highs with correction of insulin and test for ketones, high BG doesn't necessarily mean DKA but testing is very important.
If you live alone or are alone for long periods, then a trip to hospital shouldn't be ruled out as diabetes does that I think I'm ok but in reality your not

Im a truck driver who has lost his licence cos of going on insulin, till i can prove im in control. Work has been very good at the moment as im second manning without the driving. This all happend 2006 with severe acute pancritis.
Is anyone out there with the same condition

markace1 said:

Im a truck driver who has lost his licence cos of going on insulin, till i can prove im in control. Work has been very good at the moment as im second manning without the driving. This all happend 2006 with severe acute pancritis.
Is anyone out there with the same condition

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Have you been on insulin since 2006 and do you have a pancreatic specialist, was it just one acute attack, did they tell you what caused it

I have type 3c diabetes. I am going to be completely honest here and say I am 100% positive I developed it due to alcohol abuse. Thanks to AA I haven't had a drink in nearly 12 years, and it's 11 years since I had a bout of pancreatitis. I was only diagnosed with diabetes in April and initially treated unsuccessfully for type 2. I have now switched to insulin injections and have been on them just over a week, so far my BS levels are fluctuating wildly.
The strangest aspect of all this for me is why I developed type 3c now - why not years ago? I can also suggest that alcohol abuse and Type 3c are probably a lot more common than people might think. I attend a small AA group with about 40 long term members. Three of us have type 3c due to chronic pancreatitis attacks brought on by excessive alcohol abuse in the bad old days.
I am not suggesting for a second that all type 3c's are alcoholics! but it is interesting that there is so little said about it. Most are aware of liver damage associated with alcohol, and some will know it is a cause of pancreatitis, but I have never heard a warning that its possible to become insulin dependant.

Kirktown said:

I have type 3c diabetes. I am going to be completely honest here and say I am 100% positive I developed it due to alcohol abuse. Thanks to AA I haven't had a drink in nearly 12 years, and it's 11 years since I had a bout of pancreatitis. I was only diagnosed with diabetes in April and initially treated unsuccessfully for type 2. I have now switched to insulin injections and have been on them just over a week, so far my BS levels are fluctuating wildly.
The strangest aspect of all this for me is why I developed type 3c now - why not years ago? I can also suggest that alcohol abuse and Type 3c are probably a lot more common than people might think. I attend a small AA group with about 40 long term members. Three of us have type 3c due to chronic pancreatitis attacks brought on by excessive alcohol abuse in the bad old days.
I am not suggesting for a second that all type 3c's are alcoholics! but it is interesting that there is so little said about it. Most are aware of liver damage associated with alcohol, and some will know it is a cause of pancreatitis, but I have never heard a warning that its possible to become insulin dependant.

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Pancreas problems start for many reasons, no one can judge another, to admit alcohol was the cause of yours is very brave, fortunately pancreatitis is fairly rare though 90% of sufferers have alcohol problems, around 5% is caused by gallstones and the other 5% is autoimmune or other cause.
It depends on the damage an acute attack causes, some people will become diabetic early some it may take years and others never, only 5% will become diabetic. It is a disease that no one has heard of until your laying in agony and a helpful doctor tells you what it is and a nurse says her uncle had it.
I think we will see a big rise in cases as it seems young people now drink lots more than previous generations.
I don't think anyone knows how alcohol can damage your body years later.
In my case I hadn't had a drink in over 12years, gave it up as I hardly touched it so it wasn't a hardship, and I have never had a reason why it happened, though I had severe digestive problems as a teenager, which with the benefit of hindsight, was probably panc related. My consultant now has decided to look into genetics.
Type 3c do struggle with keeping tight control, lots of hypos and false hypos with the odd hyper thrown in just to keep you on your toes.
It is important to count carbs, and eat less of them, cutting out, bread, potatoes, rice etc helps, though low carbing is not great as a type3c cannot eat lots of protein and fats
Edit have you joined the pancreatitis support network very good support. http://www.pancreatitis-forum.org.uk/

Hiya Shar - hope panc's playing ball today.

"fortunately pancreatitis is fairly rare though 90% of sufferers have alcohol problems, around 5% is caused by gallstones and the other 5% is autoimmune or other cause."

Shar - this is wrong. Where did you get it?
Biggest cause is gallstones / repeated attacks of acute, i think.

However I doubt any stats are too good on this.
30% is a "dont know" the rest....well if they dont know 30% and from what i've seen...do they make these stats up?
Where do they get them?

This is interesting stuff. As far as the genetic angle is concerned - both my parents have had pancreatitis, my father repeated attacks. My uncle also died of pancreatic cancer. So this might support a weakness in my genetic make up apart from the alcohol abuse. None of the above had any problems with alcohol, and just stopped social drinking with no problems after the initial diagnosis.