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Vitamins and supplements

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pedro606

Well-Known Member
Messages
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I was wondering if someone could advise on this please.

I am sure when we go 'low carbing' etc we may miss out on needed vitamins etc. Do you think it is a good idea to take supplements and, if so, which ones would you think are most needed.

I am recently Dx T2 and I am on diet only at the moment.

Thanks a lot,

Pete
 
Hi Pete,

Generally a low carb diet is one that cuts out all the starchy foods that have little or no vitamins and minerals, and instead getting your carbs from vegetables and a small amout of friut, all of which are packed with vitamins and minerals. Generally it is those who are on a high carb diet who are in greater need of supplements because high carb foods contain very little natural goodness.
 
Hi Dennis,

Many thanks for that. I do eat quite a lot of veg now but not too much fruit. Maybe I an getting too paranoid about everything.

Pete
 
I know how you feel! I think it's because we have been brainwashed into thinking that diet withoutstarchy foods means unhealthy food. I do take some supplements but not multivitamins because I feel I'm getting more nutrients now than before.
 
take multi vitamins, doctor suggested a lower fat, higher protein diet and eating more fish than usual, eg big jars of herring in vinegar for about a quid from aldi's for one. But still eat pasta and rice

lunch atm is 2 bread, some stilton, 1 big carrot, 3 herrings, some smoked salmon and beef with strawberries and grapes

a mixed diet seems to be the key with no "banned" foods :)
 
It really depends on your individual diet as to whether you are lacking in anything. When Ally analysed a a small number of diets (just a day) almost all were low in fibre, many in calcium and some in vit C and folate.
There is an American diet tracker from the US that enables you to put in your daily intake and will analyse it , including a micronutrient analysis. Its not that easy to use as it includes cup ozmeasurements and you have to wade through all sorts of strange foods when searching for basic items. However it is possible and you can at least find out if you are seriously short of anything. Obviously, If you are on a low carb diet it will inevitably tell you that you are not eating suficient carbs.
http://www.mypyramidtracker.gov/
scroll to the bottom, you can 'check it out' without registering.
 
steve_sandy said:
But still eat pasta and rice

lunch atm is 2 bread, some stilton, 1 big carrot, 3 herrings, some smoked salmon and beef with strawberries and grapes

a mixed diet seems to be the key with no "banned" foods :)
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Hi Steve,

If you are able to eat starchy carbohydrates and still maintain a low blood sugar level then you are very lucky. We are all different , each with a different metabolism and different reaction to different foods, and many type-2s are unable to reduce their blood sugars without a considerable reduction on carbohydrates. Where it is necessary to reduce carbs then what is recommended is to cut out those that provide only carbs but very little nutrient value and to increase those foods that provide vitamins, minerals and fibre as well as carbs. So a "mixed" diet might work for you but it won't necessarily work for others.
 
Dennis,

You are so right. The quack and nurse at my surgery recommend starchy carbohydrates but my readings were always on the high side. Since cutting down on carbs my readings are lower and I have also lost some weight in the bargain.

I have never understood all that metabolism stuff. We overweight people are accused of over indulging etc as a cause of it. My brother eats much much more than me- drinks like a fish, smokes like a chimney, eats fast food and fry ups all the time. Why is he very thin and not a diabetic and not had cancer. By comparison to my brother I am one of the most health conscious guys on the planet. He is 67 and 5 yrs older than me.

Could it be that he is the lucky one with a high metabolic rate- whatever that means, and if so, why do I have a slow metabolic rate? What has caused that from birth. I never ever see the so called experts addressing that. It just seems fashionable to blame overweight people for everything. Could we be blamed for the credit crunch? it is food orientated namewise.

Pete
 
pedro606 said:
Could it be that he is the lucky one with a high metabolic rate- whatever that means, and if so, why do I have a slow metabolic rate? What has caused that from birth.
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Hi Pete,
Probably genetics - sounds like you and he inherited genes from different sides of the family.

It just seems fashionable to blame overweight people for everything. Could we be blamed for the credit crunch? it is food orientated namewise.
Click to expand...
Shhhhh! The journos just haven't thought of that one yet - don't give em ideas!

Here's another idea that Fleet Street hasn't thought of yet - the temperature of the body is greater than the temperature of the surrounding air. Therefore as the world's population becomes increasingly obese then the volume of space that they take up must also be warmer. So it's not carbon emissions that are responsible for global warming - its fatties!
 
Spot the Eat The Rainbow thread over in the diet forum.

Cutting out all the nutritionally poor starches enables you to add more of the healthy things with high levels of micronutrients (watch the fruit for BG spikes though, berries are usually more user friendly)

Some vitamins and other things are fat soluble so in a low fat diet you may be eating enough of them but not getting them absorbed. Then a high protein diet requires less vitamin C anyway, and some other micronutrients help recycle it, so eating lots of everything that doesn;t spike your BG is probably a good plan
 
If you low carb you are more likely to have lower intakes of some vits and minerals. In particular calcium, vit c. folate and fibre.

Whilst it may be true that a HP diet may require less vitc , there has been a study or 2 , it may then lead to a reduction in Iron absorption.

The only way you will know is to have your diet analysed - a dietitian could do this for you. My snapshot certainly showed low carb diets are lower in a number of nutrients - have a look at the thread nutrient quest - on this index. It was of course only a day but there was a trend! I also found quite a few were eating less fat than the Rec Daily Intake.
 
Hi Pedro
I tried to find evidence of any deficiency in vitamins or minerals which would be caused by low carbing. I searched the web and even dusted down my University textbooks. Found nothing. then I challenged a registered dietician to tell me, but found no answer.
In other words, If you eat a variety of other foods, you won't go deficient an anything.
It has actually been shown in a controlled trial that you can live almost indefinitely on nothing but fatty meat and fish.
 
hana - that is not true even if you look at what I did. I thought even Dr B encourages supplements?

I will really depend on how low you are anyway but I have found that low carbing means a decreased intake. However just randomly taking vits/ minerals may be harmful so I would suggest getting advice from someone who is able to analyse your diet first.
 
Hi Ally,

I find it somewhat confusing when you tell us that low carb diets are often deficient in various minerals, when it is well known that the starchy foods are themselves very low in these same essentials. You mentioned in particular calcium, vitamin C, folate and fibre.

The highest concentrations of calcium are found in dairy products (milk, yogurt, cheese and butter), which the “experts” tell us to eat less of. Wheat contains a very low amount of calcium, which is why so many manufacturers of wheat based products add vitamins and minerals and sell it as “vitamin enriched” or “fortified”.

According to the Food Standards Agency the highest levels of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) are to be found in peppers, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, oranges and kiwi fruit. Wheat contains no vitamin C, and in fact ascorbic acid has to be added to the flour used to make bread in order to strengthen the dough and make it “rise”. You only need to look back in history to find that sailors who existed on a diet of flour-based foods on long journeys suffered scurvy because their diets had no vitamin C.

Folate (folic acid) is naturally present in most green veg (particularly spinach, watercress, kale), yeast extract (eg Marmite), oranges and chicken liver. It is also present in some breads and breakfast cereals but only where it has been added to the natural ingredients.

Dietary fibre is certainly found in cereal foods (particularly where it has been added so is not a natural ingredient), but also in equally high quantities in beans, lentils, fruit and vegetables.

What I fail to understand is how a high carb diet which, by its very nature, will be low in the vitamins and minerals you mention can possibly be more beneficial than a low or reduced carb diet that is high in these same vitamins and minerals. You have often said that people should not take added vitamin and mineral supplements, yet by eating things such as bread and cereals many people are unwittingly taking supplements without realising it!
 
Keeping our blood sugars low involves a balanced diet, probably more balanced than when we were diagnosed. I think I speak for the majority of us when I say that we all feel much healthier now we are more aware of what we put into our system. Personally I only had six months of eating junk before I was diagnosed and I know that I didn't feel as good then as I do now.
If you feel the need for supplements then please research them well. There are side effects to most of them and some are contraindicated with medicines you may take.
Catherine.
 
some research on low carb diets does show certain deficiencies (see http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/volume12/vol12.4/fullArticles/crowe.pdf, specifically
p4 fro vitamins and p6 for calcium.
Also this :http://www.aafp.org/afp/20060601/1942.html
The Nutrient quest thread also served to suggest that if the diets were typical, there was a risk of deficiencies.
I'm just going to look at calcium and fibre:

I agree with Dennis that calcium can be obtained from dairy foods, so there is no reason per se that a low carb diet should be low in it. (However, most people obtain adequate quantities from milk and yoghurt and often reduce these because of the lactose content. Cheese (if you have no concerns about the sat fat ) is I agree an excellent source. Some green veg have good quantiites, though that from spinach for example doesn't seem to be well absorbed
Here's a short list that might help people see if they are getting adequate amounts The average adult should aim to take in 700mg calcium each day. Post menopausal women more.
(ca mg/100gm)
Semi-skimmed milk 118
Low fat yogurt, plain 190
Cheddar cheese 740
Sardines, canned in tomato sauce 430
Pilchards, canned in tomato sauce 250
Sesame seeds 670
Almonds 240
Tofu, soybean curd 510
White bread 110
Dried apricots 92
Dried figs 250
Okra, raw 160
Curly kale, boiled 150
Kidney beans, canned 71 (list from a Waitrose leaflet!)

Fibre is I think very much more difficult to get adequate amounts. In the absence of wholegrains, and pulses, very large amounts of veg and fruit are needed.Just add up the fibre in 5 portions from the list below. According to Ally you need 25mg a day.
All portions are supposed to be medium sized and come from a list on http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/high_fibre/dietary_sources.htm
(food, portion size mg of fibre)
Broccoli 85g , 2
Green beans 90g ,1.7
Cabbage 95g. 1.7
Carrots 60gm,1.5
Cauliflower 90g 1.4
Tomato 1. 0.9
Lettuce 30g, 0.3
Red Lentils 3 tbsp (90g) 1.7
Wholewheat pasta(cooked) 230g 8.1 (thats to me quite a big portion!)
potato with skin, 1 medium (180g) 4.9
Branflakes 4tbsp 4.2
Wholemeal bread 1 slice 2.1
Granary bread1 slice 1.5
Orange 1, 2.7
Apple 1, 1.8
Peach 1, 1.7
Banana 1, 1.1
Strawberries 100g, 1.1
Almonds 6 whole, 1

As Catherine says, the wider your choice of foods, the less likely you are to have shortages.
 
Hi

Dennis the problem is that often portion sizes of foods like spinach etc have to be quite large to have any significance. a quote from my gp when having first baby - a glass of Guiness is good for iron but in real terms i would have had to have 8 pints!

For some low carbers it means no dairy and cheese may not provide enough unless eaten in large quantities - I cannot look it up on analysis my new puppy has chewed the memory stick!

That is why it is better to get your diet analysed using UK food tables and then decide.

Dennis potatoes are a good source of fibre and vit c - in fact i think a lot of kids who eat **** would have scurvy without crisps but thats another story.

Wholegrains are also a major source of folate - that is prob why so many had low folate intakes.

This is not a debate about low carbing but it is a fact that it does mean the use of supplements if the carb intake is quite low.
 
Hi Ally,

Thanks for your answer. But I don't think my pub does Guiness on prescription!!
 
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