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<blockquote data-quote="Mbaker" data-source="post: 1656140" data-attributes="member: 256617"><p>Professor Taylor makes it very clear that the ND is low calorie and that the criticisms that that don't work are confounded with the guidance during the re-introduction to food phase, so [USER=219467]@bulkbiker[/USER] is right in his classification, as this is verbalised by Professor Taylor directly.</p><p></p><p>A while back I said in another thread that I would have performed the ND first followed by LCHF. I use my reservation to change my mind now I have more detail. If I were to go down the low calorie root it would be with real LCHF food from the start, a customised version of the blood sugar diet.</p><p></p><p>I now would not follow the ND protocol unless I was devoid of the knowledge I now have, as I have recently seen the data that showed that the latest version of 830 calories used 61% carbs. For me this is counter intuitive and if anything in my opinion hobbles and reduces the potential of the trial - imagine the results on say 20% carbs or 10%, especially the insulin curve. Whilst it could be argued that the small intake of food made the 61% carbs relatively smaller than "normal", as a carb intolerant Type 2 why give me more?</p><p></p><p><a href="http://directclinicaltrial.org.uk/Documents/AAA%20FINAL%20DiRECT%2012m%20results%20for%20IDF%202017.pdf" target="_blank">http://directclinicaltrial.org.uk/Documents/AAA FINAL DiRECT 12m results for IDF 2017.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>I respect Professor Taylor, but it saddens me that he sticks to the low calorie methodology, when he would have been aware of say what Akins has achieved and that his subjects are carb challenged to start with. I suspect Professor Taylor is sold on the status quo legacy arguments about saturated fat, which he would be entitled to do. A lot of money has been spent when frankly this could have serviced a real food trial. Maybe it was the politics that a funded trial had to follow the current eating guidelines but just cut down. A LCHF trial could look something like this perhaps:</p><p></p><p>3 months clinical and or out patient versions:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">General one size fits all LCHF - which is then tailored to the individual (based on taste, insulin resistance, etc)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Variations of the drinks and meal plan delivered in a clinical setting by experts on either 3 or 2 meals a day protocol</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A focus on gut bacteria, anti-inflammatory foods</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Food procurement and education (carbs, protein, fats). Practical teaching of how to self prepare the meals</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Psychology of understanding the lifestyle changes and resolving conflicts for example regarding bread, potatoes etc</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exercise and meditation and sleep plans that are sustainable and individualised</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Notes / videos for both participants and family members which are easy to consume, for during and after</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Regular meetings to tease out issues and improve the protocol - listen to the participants and make changes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All of the above and more geared towards leaving the subjects with all of the tools required to confidently understand the technical aspects of the different types of diabetes particularly their own, and how to practically from start to finish manage all aspects of food purchase, cooking, social eating, parties etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Follow up services to learn lessons</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rollout plan</li> </ul><p>I believe that Eric Wiseman, Jason Fung, Sarah Halberg, David Unwin, The Diet Doctor and this site can produce stats on clients / patients on LCHF and IF which are superior than the ND (i.e. with remission levels below the non-diabetic range) and with larger numbers and significantly less clinical controls .</p><p></p><p>Don't get me wrong the ND is a viable option for some, especially if you can't get your head around full fat, but we are at the critique stage, so questions will be raised. I for one would like to know, why he did not use real food in this latest trial, surely in a clinical setting it would have been possible to (why line the pockets of sachet producers for when this rolls out). And being able to show a plate of attractive food to potential candidates has to be improved marketing). Again why low calorie (my view Eatwell guide light). What is the food in the maintenance phase, I have not seen anything yet, but could guess, and what are the blood panel results especially fasting insulin. What was the remission rate in the UK and ADA non-diabetic ranges.</p><p></p><p>At least remission is talked about seriously with a protocol which the "establishment" can accept and is a closer cousin to LCHF than drugs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mbaker, post: 1656140, member: 256617"] Professor Taylor makes it very clear that the ND is low calorie and that the criticisms that that don't work are confounded with the guidance during the re-introduction to food phase, so [USER=219467]@bulkbiker[/USER] is right in his classification, as this is verbalised by Professor Taylor directly. A while back I said in another thread that I would have performed the ND first followed by LCHF. I use my reservation to change my mind now I have more detail. If I were to go down the low calorie root it would be with real LCHF food from the start, a customised version of the blood sugar diet. I now would not follow the ND protocol unless I was devoid of the knowledge I now have, as I have recently seen the data that showed that the latest version of 830 calories used 61% carbs. For me this is counter intuitive and if anything in my opinion hobbles and reduces the potential of the trial - imagine the results on say 20% carbs or 10%, especially the insulin curve. Whilst it could be argued that the small intake of food made the 61% carbs relatively smaller than "normal", as a carb intolerant Type 2 why give me more? [URL]http://directclinicaltrial.org.uk/Documents/AAA%20FINAL%20DiRECT%2012m%20results%20for%20IDF%202017.pdf[/URL] I respect Professor Taylor, but it saddens me that he sticks to the low calorie methodology, when he would have been aware of say what Akins has achieved and that his subjects are carb challenged to start with. I suspect Professor Taylor is sold on the status quo legacy arguments about saturated fat, which he would be entitled to do. A lot of money has been spent when frankly this could have serviced a real food trial. Maybe it was the politics that a funded trial had to follow the current eating guidelines but just cut down. A LCHF trial could look something like this perhaps: 3 months clinical and or out patient versions: [LIST] [*]General one size fits all LCHF - which is then tailored to the individual (based on taste, insulin resistance, etc) [*]Variations of the drinks and meal plan delivered in a clinical setting by experts on either 3 or 2 meals a day protocol [*]A focus on gut bacteria, anti-inflammatory foods [*]Food procurement and education (carbs, protein, fats). Practical teaching of how to self prepare the meals [*]Psychology of understanding the lifestyle changes and resolving conflicts for example regarding bread, potatoes etc [*]Exercise and meditation and sleep plans that are sustainable and individualised [*]Notes / videos for both participants and family members which are easy to consume, for during and after [*]Regular meetings to tease out issues and improve the protocol - listen to the participants and make changes [*]All of the above and more geared towards leaving the subjects with all of the tools required to confidently understand the technical aspects of the different types of diabetes particularly their own, and how to practically from start to finish manage all aspects of food purchase, cooking, social eating, parties etc. [*]Follow up services to learn lessons [*]Rollout plan [/LIST] I believe that Eric Wiseman, Jason Fung, Sarah Halberg, David Unwin, The Diet Doctor and this site can produce stats on clients / patients on LCHF and IF which are superior than the ND (i.e. with remission levels below the non-diabetic range) and with larger numbers and significantly less clinical controls . Don't get me wrong the ND is a viable option for some, especially if you can't get your head around full fat, but we are at the critique stage, so questions will be raised. I for one would like to know, why he did not use real food in this latest trial, surely in a clinical setting it would have been possible to (why line the pockets of sachet producers for when this rolls out). And being able to show a plate of attractive food to potential candidates has to be improved marketing). Again why low calorie (my view Eatwell guide light). What is the food in the maintenance phase, I have not seen anything yet, but could guess, and what are the blood panel results especially fasting insulin. What was the remission rate in the UK and ADA non-diabetic ranges. At least remission is talked about seriously with a protocol which the "establishment" can accept and is a closer cousin to LCHF than drugs. [/QUOTE]
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