Weights vs Carbs

Hi I'm type 2 but go to the gym 3 times per week and do a mix of cardio and weights. It always lowers my BS but probably like you can make me starving hungry and rushing for carbs. If it's any help I've learned to lower the weights and do lots more reps. Whey protein shakes (sugar free) fill me up and I try to eat lots of chicken and fish. It's horrendously difficult because carbs obviously work fast on your hunger.

I'm currently doing very similar to 'ray2' as mentioned above and a type 1. I try eat something high carb before my workout and have my sugars rather high at the beginning; then they come down as using weights uses the glucose alot in my blood naturally.

Sometimes I use a low-ish sugar and carb protein shake along with creatine after my workout as I'm normally starving after a weights / cardio session.

Regards and good luck.

Justin

MrBrightside said:

I'm thinking of starting a weight lifting program. I already exercise regularly but mostly cardio so i keep an eye on my levels (Type 1 MDI). Please can anyone give some general advice on bulking up without relying on carbs too much?

Thanks
Andrew

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We're on the exact same boat!

Don't look for very special nutritions, there are some other things you can do to have and keep the body mass.

I do 3day cardio-3day weightlifting, shifting to one another everyday. Does miracles! Little tip: you must get much more protein into your muscles. Whey protein is the best. Try adding high intensity runs for 30 seconds very 5 minutes to your cardio, and try to lift superslow with lesser weights during wieghtlifting sessions.

When doing full on weight work, I tend to find that I liver dump part way through as my muscles require additional fuel, so I don't' need to eat anything beforehand, unless I have IOB, when I do have to be a little more careful.

Hi Andrew
Am a type 1 diabetic and My advice regarding cardio is you will never be able to gain weigh and bulk! How ever you can go for a 3k jog twice a week to keep up the endurance but the remaining week you should be lifting weight start slow and make sure you have a 5 meal plan. Carbs are not the answer for bulking, it's the protein that you feed the muscle that will help, you still need to have carbs in your meals for energy before your work out so it's out your system post work out...
Btw lifting weight will give help your diabetes and increase your self esteem.

Thanks
Fazzz

I do not recommend whey shakers... You can have beta alanine and chromium, omega 3 etc. eat well... 5 meals a day, oats, nuts, fish, chicken, brown/wild rice, sweet potato, no fried food, beans, a lot of vegetables and tuna, salmon etc

MrBrightside said:

Excellent suggestions thanks. I have an intro session in the next week or so.

I'll look into whey protein, should i pre-prepare protein-based meals? Any suggestions for protein, chicken, fish etc?

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I'm with Tim here.

Mostly I do endurance weights, low weights, moderate reps but very little rest between sets. Typically Exercise 1, Exercise 2, exercise 3, 60s rest etc. Doing this I find has a tendency to elevate rather than drop BG.

Remember Weightlifting by definition is anaerobic, so BG really should not be dropping much, but would be more likely to rise, although of course that's only a generality and each of us will differ. As for protein shakes, powders etc, even when I was still playing rugby, I never indulged in those, but preferred to just eat healthily, but more. A lot of bodybuilders overindulge in protein for no added value

ElyDave said:

I'm with Tim here.

Mostly I do endurance weights, low weights, moderate reps but very little rest between sets. Typically Exercise 1, Exercise 2, exercise 3, 60s rest etc. Doing this I find has a tendency to elevate rather than drop BG.

Remember Weightlifting by definition is anaerobic, so BG really should not be dropping much, but would be more likely to rise, although of course that's only a generality and each of us will differ. As for protein shakes, powders etc, even when I was still playing rugby, I never indulged in those, but preferred to just eat healthily, but more. A lot of bodybuilders overindulge in protein for no added value

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Thank you for this. I started strength & body weight training in the past few weeks and find that my BS is higher after my workout. I have also noticed my FBS has been higher, even though I have not altered my diet. I eat less than 50 grams total, usually 25 net. The only information I can find on the "net" says that it tends to drop BS, however I have not found that to be the case with me.

During the day, my blood sugar is normal, it is just post-workout & my FBS that are higher.

Weights raise my blood sugars and cardio lowers it. I wouldn't eat anything before weights. I'd also try to be in the lower 6s before I start weights doing cardio if needed.
I would eat protein after but not huge amounts, I also wouldn't bother with shakes as I'd get a spike with it.

Hi @MrBrightside

@tim2000s, @ElyDave and @Mrs Vimes are all right in that fact that you need to watch out for rising blood glucose levels with weights. I suggest you take loads of blood tests before, during and after your session before you start working up a 'plan' - that way you will be able to gauge better what plan will give you the best results - not only fitness wise but also blood glucose wise.

Here's a vid to just re-aquaint yourself with some of the basics.
Take a look at www.teambloodglucose.com and consider joining the Sporty Diabetics Type 1's Facebook group too.
Best of luck with your training plan!

I workout every day using weights in twelve months I have dropped my weight by 15kg I have started a new workout Monday deadlift and over head press. Tuesday either Pin press or Tricep extensions. Wednesday Squats and Pendaley rows. Thursday Rack pulls or Deficit deadlift. Friday Bench and leg press. Weekends I do a mix of exercises. I am currently training for masters 5 in Power lifting for next year I have been diabetic 2001 I was ill informed of the consequences of diabetes it was not until I got on to diabetes.co.uk that I learnt some the true facts. I have now been lifting since October 2011. My best lifts are Squat 131kg Bench 115kg Deadlift 175kg. I have changed my main meals to mid day and that has made a big difference for evening meal I have 10 egg whites 200g mushrooms and 400g And a glass of water with cider vinegar. My sugars this morning were 5.5.

thirdchancedave said:

I workout every day using weights in twelve months I have dropped my weight by 15kg I have started a new workout Monday deadlift and over head press. Tuesday either Pin press or Tricep extensions. Wednesday Squats and Pendaley rows. Thursday Rack pulls or Deficit deadlift. Friday Bench and leg press. Weekends I do a mix of exercises. I am currently training for masters 5 in Power lifting for next year I have been diabetic 2001 I was ill informed of the consequences of diabetes it was not until I got on to diabetes.co.uk that I learnt some the true facts. I have now been lifting since October 2011. My best lifts are Squat 131kg Bench 115kg Deadlift 175kg. I have changed my main meals to mid day and that has made a big difference for evening meal I have 10 egg whites 200g mushrooms and 400g And a glass of water with cider vinegar. My sugars this morning were 5.5.

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Hi Dave,
Have joined forum to support hubby, he does weight training too. Am really interested in your post above. It says 10 egg whites 200g mushrooms then 400g ????? of what please then cider vinegar. Did you miss a word out? Keep up the good work, your post was really inspirational. Cheers

Awesome idea for a thread. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad advice people are sharing. Fortunately, there was a lot of good advice I read too.

First thing is first: it is incredibly difficult to gain lean mass (muscle) on a carb-less diet. I personally believe in "managing" my carbs, but it's still a slower bulking process. Can you gain lean mass on a carbless diet? Yes, but if you're asking that question, probably not.

In this case, there are actually some advantages to being a type 1 as we can control how much and when we administer our insulin. Non-diabetics have to intentionally spike their insulin after workouts which is why you often hear people eating simple carbs with whey protein after a workout. Insulin is basically just a transporter to deliver nutrients to your muscles. That's not a good thing when you eat too many carbs and want to lose weight, but it's VERY GOOD when you're trying to gain muscle.

That leads me to my next point: protein. Protein is one of the essential building blocks of muscle growth. I'm not sure why it wasn't recommended, but whey protein is incredibly popular, proven to be safe in use by (most diabetics), and consider by most to be essential for muscle growth.

Think of your basal and bolus insulin. Protein is very similar. Whey protein is rapidly digested. That makes it great for pre/post workouts where it's very important to deliver nutrients to your muscles. A casein protein is digested much slower which makes it great to consume just before bed (again, you want to constantly be feeding your muscles).

Since I believe 90% of gaining/losing weight is done in the kitchen, I'll start there. I'll cover weight training next.

My experience on this subject is pretty comprehensive in my opinion:
At 17 years old I was a competitive power lifter. (675 squat;315 bench; 575 deadlift; 211lbs body weight)
Im a former college baseball player
I lost 60 pounds in less than 6 months after a serious back injury
I am a type 1 diabetic
I'm currently training for a half marathon
Im also currently a bulking phase myself and have put on around 15-20 lbs of muscle in the last 6 weeks.

Fazzz said:

Am a type 1 diabetic and My advice regarding cardio is you will never be able to gain weigh and bulk!

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Unless I misread the above, I'm a perfect example of why it's completely false.

Cardio has two main advantages- it burns calories and it's great for overall health. If you're trying to bulk, all you have to do is increase your caloric intake to account for the extra you burn.

Remember that looking healthy (low body fat %) doesn't mean that you actually are healthy. There's plenty of ripped body builders who couldn't run a mile and plenty of overweight people who run marathons. Then there are (crazy) people, like me, that want the best of both.

My current routine looks a little something like this:
Day1:Arms
Day 2: 5mile run
Day 3: Shoulders/back
Day 4: 5 mile run
Day 5: legs
Day 6: chest/abs
Day 7: 5 mile run

I say "current routine" because I change things up quite often. I'm also not afraid to take a day or two off in a given week. If my body feels tired I give it rest.

As far a protein shakes and other supplements....they're exactly what their name suggests they SUPPLEMENT an imperfect diet. Too many people make the mistake of putting all their focus into supplements. There's nothing (legal) that works and you can't just spend money to avoid putting the hard work in.

Additionally, not all weight lifting is equal. I consider anything more than 10 reps per set to be cardio. Ultimately, lifting heavy weights in low repetitions is what will yield lean mass ) muscle growth.

Hey,

I was just having a look through the fitness forums here. I am not diabetic but was interested to see the difficulties and issues people with diabetes may have.

I take for granted just being able to go to the gym and do what I want when I want.

Anyway, I do not have advice specifically for someone with diabetes, but if you are unable to consume much more carbs, look at your other macronutrients. We consume three micronutrients:

-Protein
-Carbohydrates
-Fats

Back to basics: To gain muscle mass, we want to be eating more calories than we are using up, It is the basis of energy balance. Our body will only invest in adding more mass if it knows we are getting enough food. Muscle uses energy even when sitting still so it isn't something the body is all that keen to put on as our body wants to conserve energy.

To tip the energy balance, we just have to eat more calories. To do this, we want to eat calorie dense foods (calorie density refers to the relationship between the weight of the food and how many calories it has). So butter is an example of a calorie dense food because 10g of it has about 70 calories whilst 10g of spinach has only 2 calories approximately so spinach is clearly not calorie dense.

So eat more calorie dense foods.

Since ice-cream is also a calorie dense food, it is always good to clarify that the foods should ideally be nutrient dense ( basically foods that have a lot of nutrients but relatively few calories).

Because increasing carbs is tricky for you, look at protein and fats.

Protein has 4 calories per gram.
Carbs have 4 calories per gram.
Fats have 9 calories per gram.

As you can see, fats have more than double the calories of carbs and proteins, so to cut to the chase, try increasing fat consumption, assuming you don't have any cardiovascular disease, etc. At the same time, it would be good to increase protein intake, as most sources recommend at least 1g of protein per pound of body weight. So, for someone who is 150lbs, they should eat at least 150g protein per day, and I usually allow myself to go 20-30g lower if need be. So you want to increase calories eaten to create a positive energy balance and you also want to eat more protein as these are the building blocks for building muscle, and by eating more protein, you will be eating more calories anyway. You can go for fattier cuts of meat too that way you get protein and fat together. Protein powders are good, but are no better than eating meat or fish or eggs. Once the protein is broken down and the break down products reach the blood, the body is unable to tell whether the protein is from a protein shake or from steak. I personally prefer eating real solid foods for my protein.

To put on muscle, we need to eat more calories that we use up per day. For this, try googling 'TDEE' calculator. This calculates the calories we need per day to just stay alive and adds takes into account the calories we burn when moving around and being active. Then you need to eat more calories than that per day (so add 300-500 calories on top of your TDEE) to gain weight. These formulae are approximate and a lot of the time everyone needs to experiment a bit themselves.

I hope that all makes sense. I have not included anything diabetic related there, it is all general advice. I am a final year medical student and currently undertaking Precision Nutrition 1 level certification (sports and exercise medicine nutrition).

The amount of muscle mass gain Torq claims is physiologically and naturally impossible to do in such a short space of time. Some of that weight gain is likely water, perhaps some fat. But looking at the picture, it looks like he has done a great job putting on mass. Putting on muscle inevitable comes with some fat gain because our body inevitably diverts some of the excess energy into fat storage but you can minimise that. If he was previously very muscular he may be able to put on muscle quicker due to muscle memory. I don't know, but I am just pointing this out so no one new to weight lifting expects to gain muscle that fast.

I'll happily respond...6 months ago, I would have agreed with everything you said. Today, I agree for the most part, but there are a few important things to note.

For roughly 6 months my muscles were void of nutrients as my lack of insulin prevented my body in delivering nutrients to my muscles. Eventually, my body began to eat (quite literally) my muscles in order to survive. It was during this time that I lost roughly 35-40 lbs.

I am in agreement that a large bit of my gains have been attributed to muscle hydration. I gained about 10-12 pounds in the first week I was diagnosed. It would be unrealistic to suggest all (or even half) was new lean mass.

A few other interesting points I've noticed in my recent diagnosis:
1. My BMR is noticeably lower now that I take artificial insulin.
2. There is actually a slight advantage to gaining lean mass as a type 1.
3. However, that does come at a price

Explanation: the fact that we can/must control our insulin seems to make our bodies more efficient. I believe (but cannot confirm) I need fewer calories because my body is able to metabolize my food more efficiently. A non-diabetic bodybuilder needs to spike insulin levels often by consuming simple-carbs. We can simply inject whenever we want and control the times we want to peak our insulin level (immediately after a workout for example).

As a result, I've noticed that I gain lean mass at a much faster rate than pre-diabetes. Realistically, we are still talking about less than 1 pound (on the high side) a week. The trade off seems to be that my body is more efficient at increasing its general mass including fat. It seems my body now processes calories, in general, more efficiently which requires much more precise counting.

Side note: yes, I was previously very musclar (before the sad picture on the left. 5'10" 205 lbs with roughly 12% body fat.

TorqPenderloin said:

I'll happily respond...6 months ago, I would have agreed with everything you said. Today, I agree for the most part, but there are a few important things to note.

For roughly 6 months my muscles were void of nutrients as my lack of insulin prevented my body in delivering nutrients to my muscles. Eventually, my body began to eat (quite literally) my muscles in order to survive. It was during this time that I lost roughly 35-40 lbs.

I am in agreement that a large bit of my gains have been attributed to muscle hydration. I gained about 10-12 pounds in the first week I was diagnosed. It would be unrealistic to suggest all (or even half) was new lean mass.

A few other interesting points I've noticed in my recent diagnosis:
1. My BMR is noticeably lower now that I take artificial insulin.
2. There is actually a slight advantage to gaining lean mass as a type 1.
3. However, that does come at a price

Explanation: the fact that we can/must control our insulin seems to make our bodies more efficient. I believe (but cannot confirm) I need fewer calories because my body is able to metabolize my food more efficiently. A non-diabetic bodybuilder needs to spike insulin levels often by consuming simple-carbs. We can simply inject whenever we want and control the times we want to peak our insulin level (immediately after a workout for example).

As a result, I've noticed that I gain lean mass at a much faster rate than pre-diabetes. Realistically, we are still talking about less than 1 pound (on the high side) a week. The trade off seems to be that my body is more efficient at increasing its general mass including fat. It seems my body now processes calories, in general, more efficiently which requires much more precise counting.

Side note: yes, I was previously very musclar (before the sad picture on the left. 5'10" 205 lbs with roughly 12% body fat.

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Great! Thanks for clearing that up!

TorqPenderloin said:

Explanation: the fact that we can/must control our insulin seems to make our bodies more efficient. I believe (but cannot confirm) I need fewer calories because my body is able to metabolize my food more efficiently. A non-diabetic bodybuilder needs to spike insulin levels often by consuming simple-carbs. We can simply inject whenever we want and control the times we want to peak our insulin level (immediately after a workout for example).

As a result, I've noticed that I gain lean mass at a much faster rate than pre-diabetes. Realistically, we are still talking about less than 1 pound (on the high side) a week. The trade off seems to be that my body is more efficient at increasing its general mass including fat. It seems my body now processes calories, in general, more efficiently which requires much more precise counting.

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The reason for this is how, as a type 1, you use insulin. In a normal person, roughly 70% of Insulin is used by the liver after release into the hepatic portal vein - so only a small proportion makes it to the muscles, hence spiking insulin to increase muscle mass.

As a diabetic you inject it subcutaneously and the majority of the injected insulin reaches the muscles first, with the liver receiving it later and in a smaller proportion. As a result, if you are looking to bulk up, it does give you an advantage.