Why are spikes bad?

goose64 said:

I'm a recently diagnosed type 2 & am finding all the conflicting dietary advice confusing, but the one thing they all agree on is that you should eat to avoid spiking. I know what spiking is but why is it so bad?

Click to expand...

Well, to use to use a balloon analogy, a long term over-inflation of 10% is bad as it stretches the fabric but the stretch may recover its elasticity, this is a generally increased B.S. but a spike would be a short term over-inflation of perhaps 40% so what is the likely result? Rip!! so more damage is done even though the total (pressure x time) average is less for the spike situation.
Hope this has not confused things further.
A further analogy would be you could take 1 tablet a day for 14 days without ill effects but if you had 14 in one day it may have bad side effects :shock:

As far as I understand its still unclear if having very infrequent big spikes does immediate damage but what has been shown is that diabetics who maintain more stable levels have better outcomes (live longer) than those who's levels are "spikey".

I think a lot depends on how quickly the spike is brought down, are you talking about a spike lasting hours or one lasting a day/days?

As you are a type 2 and diet controlled it will take you much longer to come down from a spike than somebody like myself (type 1) who uses insulin, I'm not sure what degree of damage they do over the longer term and much will depend upon the frequency of the spikes, overall they are best avoided IMHO.

People who have fewer spikes are likely to have lower HbA1cs which is the best predictor of problems. In people on insulin those who have wide variability are more likely to have severe hypos.

The evidence for the spikes themselves causing long term problems is sparse
1)In animals and in test tubes (in vitro) and in a few but not all trials on people with T2, high glucose spikes are related to oxidative stress which may damage or kill cells.
There is also some evidence that glucose variability makes a difference to outcomes in crtitically ill people (people in intensive care units)
However

First, a relation between short-term glucose variability and microvascular or neurological complications has not been proven in type 1 diabetes patients and has not been investigated in type 2 diabetes. Second, no studies have been performed investigating the influence of glucose variability on macrovascular complications and death in either type 1 or type 2 diabetes patients, but the HEART2D trial suggests that lowering glucose variability does not improve cardiovascular outcome in type 2 diabetes patients after acute myocardial infarction. In contrast, glucose variability is clearly related to mortality in critically ill patients without diabetes, but intervention trials are still lacking.

Click to expand...

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/31/2/171.full

I'm not sure about about spikes yet. If you have one do you feel bad or wouldn't you notice if you didn't take BS?

I have no clue what spikes are. I try to eat fewer carbs but the 100 a day the doctor told me is leaving me with nothing to eat in the afternoon. I eat 100 for breakfast and lunch and then must go hungry until the next morning. My bs is low every morning. It goes very low at night but I sleep through it. 4 months into this nightmare and not able to understand any of it.

@Gme2 you are replying to a six year old thread.

Gmt2 said:

I have no clue what spikes are. I try to eat fewer carbs but the 100 a day the doctor told me is leaving me with nothing to eat in the afternoon. I eat 100 for breakfast and lunch and then must go hungry until the next morning. My bs is low every morning. It goes very low at night but I sleep through it. 4 months into this nightmare and not able to understand any of it.

Click to expand...

Hi @Gmt2 ,

Welcome to the forum... You have indeed dived into a couple of old threads. Not a problem, but your enquiries may go unnoticed by those with appropriate experience regarding a response..
You are more than welcome to start your own topic, saying hello & stating your prescribed medication .

4 months is not long, but I'm confident you'll get the hang of it.

Regards,

J>

Gmt2 said:

I have no clue what spikes are. I try to eat fewer carbs but the 100 a day the doctor told me is leaving me with nothing to eat in the afternoon. I eat 100 for breakfast and lunch and then must go hungry until the next morning. My bs is low every morning. It goes very low at night but I sleep through it. 4 months into this nightmare and not able to understand any of it.

Click to expand...

Are you taking any medication?
And what are you eating?.. you do know that meat and fish are effectively carb free so you could always eat those in the evening..

Gmt2 said:

I have no clue what spikes are. I try to eat fewer carbs but the 100 a day the doctor told me is leaving me with nothing to eat in the afternoon. I eat 100 for breakfast and lunch and then must go hungry until the next morning. My bs is low every morning. It goes very low at night but I sleep through it. 4 months into this nightmare and not able to understand any of it.

Click to expand...

I don’t understand why you eat all your carbs in the first half of the day and then go hungry. I keep to under 50g carbs/day and don’t go hungry. I eat three meals a day. I see you are new to the forum so you may find @daisy1 ’s info post helpful, it will appear here when she’s next on line. can you also clarify which meds you are on, it will help people advise you. Also take a look at this thread, where people post what they have eaten each day:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/page-1202#post-1992047
Another website with loads of low carb meal ideas is Diet Doctor found here:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb
Don’t worry you can get loads of info without subscribing.

As mentioned above, here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it both interesting and helpful.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

Gmt2 said:

I have no clue what spikes are. I try to eat fewer carbs but the 100 a day the doctor told me is leaving me with nothing to eat in the afternoon. I eat 100 for breakfast and lunch and then must go hungry until the next morning. My bs is low every morning. It goes very low at night but I sleep through it. 4 months into this nightmare and not able to understand any of it.

Click to expand...

Hello there @Gmt2 !
Welcome to this forum - old thread, but so what ...
First things first - a spike is when your blood sugar rises over recommended levels. A spike is usually a fast glucose level rise, but depending on what and how you have eaten, it can also come creeping after more than 2 hours after your meal.

100 g of carbs is still by some considered low carbing (there are no exact limits, it depends largely on your own body's reactions), but do spread it out over a full day, and compensate with more (healthy) fats and some more proteins, if you don't have medical reasons to limit their amounts. I agree with "bulkbiker" and "Rachox", and they have been in this game long enough, to know what they are talking about.

P.S. What recommended levels are, is a subject for a looong new discussion, but in my opinion fasting blood glucose levels should definitely not be over 6.5 mmol/l and "after meal"-levels should preferably not exceed 7.8 mmol/l. But as said, this is in many forum members opinion debatable. Normal levels are in any case the golden goal...

CollieBoy said:

Well, to use to use a balloon analogy, a long term over-inflation of 10% is bad as it stretches the fabric but the stretch may recover its elasticity, this is a generally increased B.S. but a spike would be a short term over-inflation of perhaps 40% so what is the likely result? Rip!! so more damage is done even though the total (pressure x time) average is less for the spike situation.
Hope this has not confused things further.
A further analogy would be you could take 1 tablet a day for 14 days without ill effects but if you had 14 in one day it may have bad side effects :shock:

Click to expand...

I still can't figure out this forum. Where do I post comments? A year on here and it is so confusing. I too am not surevwhy spijes are bad. But all this diabetes stuff makes no sense. I must start eating right soon. I still eat most of what I enjoy but meds are the best. I stopped checking my bs too except niw and again.

Hi Gmt2,

Don't worry you will figure out this forum- it's huge because there are many people here.

It is overwhelming at the beginning but it gets easier and less overwhelming.

If you are having 100 grams of carbs a day what are you eating. I have less than 20 and have 3 meals a day on weekends (only 2 during the week).

Can I gently suggest- actually strongly recommend testing your bs regularly. It keeps me motivated. I'm quite competitive I guess and really like seeing lower numbers- not too low just in the 5s with the occasional 4 or 6.

You will get there.