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Why do my sugars rise overnight!

F

fiona35

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
So when I can afford to buy the Freestyle Libre, an interesting phenomenon keeps cropping up but I don’t know why!
I go to bed usually around 10pm and my sugars are between 7 to 8, but from around 1am when I am asleep they start rising to peak at at 3am, then drop back down till around 6am then start rising again till I get up at around 7.30 and it’s 9 something!!
Should I just not bother eating any dinner?
Thanks for any suggestions
 
My experience, and that of some others in this forum, is that being in ketosis or fat adapted does not fix the Dawn Phenomenon (or Foot on the Floor) straight away and that it can take moths (years) to become unnoticeable.

What I and many others found is that if we don't eat it may continue to rise and if we eat carbs, we get a rise, but if we eat a (almost) zero carb snack/meal first thing in the morning that stops the DP in its tracks.

The theory behind this is that the DP is the liver helping us with extra energy to go hunt/gather our first meal of the day. Our bodies have hardly changed since all humans were hunter gatherers. So having a meal stops the effect - since we now have the extra energy from that food to be able to hunt/gather our next meal etc.
 
I do eat low carb but probably not Keto and I don’t eat breakfast as I thought fasting might help, but it seems not!
Will try injecting as soon as I wake and trying a mouthful of something to try and stop it!
Thanks all for the interesting comments about DP, I thought it started around 6am, not 3am!
 
When it starts varies from person to person. as does how long it lasts for if you stay fasting.
Just like how we react to specific amounts of specific carbohydrate food varies also, which is why there is no specific types of carbs or quantity of carbs that will reverse T2 diabetes and hence the need for testing our personal reaction to our meals.
 
@fiona35 have you considered x posting in the T1 sub-forum as you are on insulin ?It could be an insulin dosing issue and not down to diet.
 
I have had the same issues and have a libre sensor. Through trial and error I have discovered that lowering my evening insulin dose it no longer happens.
Occasionally when I have had very low carb meals my levels dropped to the stage that the low sugar alarm went off, it then shot up.
With lower doses it seems to drop slowly overnight. I just adjusted the insulin by no more than 2 units at a time until it seemed stable.
Don’t know if that helps.
Peter
 
Fiona, yes noticed you were on insulin but don’t know your regime eg one long acting insulin like me Humulin, or a long and rapid acting ones where you adjust the latter to go with meals/ carbs. This last 6 months, with CGM, I have largely got my insulin dosing to get rid of dawn phenomenon and hypos, and experiment with pre bed snacks ( walnuts/ hazel nuts good for me). I also swim 5x a week. It takes time to experiment, and record what seems to improve BG.
 
Art Of Flowers said:
Check out Dawn Phonomenon” or Liver Dump”.
Click to expand...
I am inspired by your success at reversing T2 after coming off Metformin. I stopped taking MF just over a month ago as I felt awful and couldn't think straight (I'm a writer). I feel so much better, but have FBG of 9.2 (it was 8.5-ish anyway even with 1000 mg Metformin). When I monitor BG during the day the readings can take hours to come down, but I do get to about 6.9 by mid-afternoon with fasting and mild exercise (walking). I'm a lean diabetic so intermittent fasting isn't always ideal, but when I first tried the 5:2 fast (5 days normal 2 days 800 calories) a few years ago my fasting BG levels fell dramatically to pre-diabetic levels and stayed there until I lapsed, since when they've climbed to between 8-10. So maybe time to follow your example. Hba1c was about 54 a couple of months ago with Metformin.
 
I was having some high fasting blood glucose levels at the end of April in the 8-10 range. I realised that I had got into some bad habits like eating ice cream and chocolates. I bought a new Contour Next meter in May which has an app to record your sugars and started using it most days. My fasting blood glucose dropped from an average of 7.7 at the beginning of May down to 7.12 in June which was good.

I then decided to get a CGM to see just what is happening to my sugars after I eat. See https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...with-a-continuous-glucose-monitor-cgm.204410/. The Dexcom One+ helped me lower by blood sugars and showed me some hidden ingredients such as Maltitose and Maltodextrin can spike blood sugars. I also started to drink warm water with fresh lemon juice first thing and started taking 2x300mg of benfotiamine (fat soluble vitamin B1). See https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/benfotiamine-fat-soluble-vitamin-b1.204860/. Benfotiamine is good for mental clarity (previously I had some brain fog) as well as neuropathy. I think it may help lower blood sugars as well as my average fasting blood sugars have dropped and they are now averaging 5.8 this week.
 
@fiona35 - remember that the thing in your body that consumes more glucose than anything is your brain... and at that time of the night, it's pretty busy.

When I was wearing a GCM, I'm also tracking sleep quality, and could often match BG raises to periods of dreaming sleep.. Your body is a complex beast and not all of the variation in BG is directly a consequence of what you've last eaten. But - If you're concerned, and you can do it without any other complications, there is nothing wrong with trying not having dinner, just to see what happens. As long as you can do it safely, understanding what your body does (as opposed to anything anyone tells you is supposed to happen) is valuable information.
 
See if you can get a free trial, I managed it.
 
I've just ordered a Dexcom One with 10 days' monitoring. I'll see if this helps as my BG is way too high (8-9.5 when I wake up and rarely seems to go below 6.9 or so even if I eat nothing all day). I did notice this morning that a double espresso caused a spike even an hour later. I came off Metformin because it was making me feel awful. feel better but BG is way too high. I walk about 10,000 steps or more every day and do some Qi Gong (Chinese yoga / stretching) in the morning.
 
It’s a common phenomenon based on the premise your body will soon be getting up and busy so will need a bit higher BG than when it’s resting/ asleep, so a ‘dawn dump’ from liver. What I find odd is the timing of this: as a retired type 3c (damaged pancreas) I have got mine to shift from overnight/ early am to late morning and I can give some Fiasp to cover that anticipated rise, swimming and even lunch after. But this is from juggling two different types of insulin, I presume you are on no diabetic drugs at all now, if metformin gone, so you’re limited in what you can experiment with: types of food in evening/ prior to bedtime for eg; even move some of your 10,000 steps to after supper. I intermittent fast 16+:8 5 days a week ( other 2 days 14 hours fast), and do 50 mins swimming daily too, so like you regularly think ‘what else can I do?’ ( re. weight loss for me)…looking very carefully at your new continuous blood glucose results to see if any meal ( or snacks life walnuts) lessen the dawn dump figure or timing, but 10 days won’t provide much data ( you could get an Abbot Freestyle Libre CBG sensor for 14 days free too). Good luck.
 
Hi Fiona, that graph is excellent. Live your life. you are doing very well to hit so much green. Well done. (Type 1 for over 40 years) The main thing is to get a good life-diabetic balance and not get too concerned. Education is good but never forget to live your life.
 
 
Blood sugar highs are not just about food There is a long list of what can give us highs .
I also get highs around 3am

Speak to your health care provider
You may need a long acting medication to help with these .
 
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