Why seed oils are not good.

[bulkbiker]

Sorry, my post is technically off topic. Neither coconut nor soybean oils are Seed Oils, They are both plant derived oils classed as Major Oils. Coconut oil is a medium chain saturated fat *and the basis of MCT) , and soybean is a poly unsaturated oil or polyol as found in margarine. fake butter spreads and shortenings.

Soyabean must be technically a seed surely? Coconut a fruit for sure.

 

[NicoleC1971]

Soyabean must be technically a seed surely? Coconut a fruit for sure.

Soybean, (Glycine max), also called soja bean or soya bean, annual legume of the pea family (Fabaceae) and its edible seed. The soybean is economically the most important bean in the world, providing vegetable protein for millions of people and ingredients for hundreds of chemical products.
Coconut
Botanically speaking, a coconut is a fibrous one-seeded drupe, also known as a dry drupe. However, when using loose definitions, the coconut can be all three: a fruit, a nut, and a seed.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I think of my brain (mainly built on fat which I consume) being constructed from good bricks and not substances that are easily oxidised and rather unstable.

I think you will find that everyone's brain cells are built of the same thing irrespective of whether you are carnivore, vegan, eat vegetable oil or lard.

Like all things nutrition related the science is difficult being confounded by so many variables but at the very least I think there should be more questioning of the health halo given to these products just because they are NOT sat fat.

I agree.

 

[Oldvatr]

Surprised to see you quoting a mouse study..

Indeed. But seeing their reported findings, I am glad no humans were hurt during the trial. I did declare it as being from an unknown source so it is not in my eyes proven.

 

[Oldvatr]

Soybean, (Glycine max), also called soja bean or soya bean, annual legume of the pea family (Fabaceae) and its edible seed. The soybean is economically the most important bean in the world, providing vegetable protein for millions of people and ingredients for hundreds of chemical products.
Coconut
Botanically speaking, a coconut is a fibrous one-seeded drupe, also known as a dry drupe. However, when using loose definitions, the coconut can be all three: a fruit, a nut, and a seed.

The catering and beauty industries use far more palm oil and corn oil I believe, although Brazil and Argentina are trying hard to expand the market for soybean. Rapeseed oil is a relative newcomer too.

 

[Oldvatr]

Soyabean must be technically a seed surely? Coconut a fruit for sure.

These are classified as Major oils and not seed oils,

 

[Oldvatr]

Again I am going to break my own rule, and quote a blogger discussing this topic, Again, it is not science as I know it, but then no one seems interested in science nowadays,
https://chriskresser.com/how-industrial-seed-oils-are-making-us-sick/

Its an entertaining read if nothing else.

 

[pdmjoker]

Surprised to see you quoting a mouse study..

I had been wondering how the mouse metabolism compares to ours and therefore what conclusions about humans could be drawn from the study...

 

[Oldvatr]

I had been wondering how the mouse metabolism compares to ours and therefore what conclusions about humans could be drawn from the study...

The problems with mice studies is that they suffer from extreme manipulation. For starters, most studies use eugenic mice - that is, mice that are specifically bred with certain defective components or missing genes.

For starters these are cohort studies not representing a general populace. Then the chow is doctored. Where a placebo diet is used for reference then it is a standardised version of Mice Eatwell, except that there is no way any self respecting mouse would choose it in a mouse cafe. The tests manipulate the test sample diets but in a way that is unnatural for a mouse, eg, the fats used are human processed fats not natural fats so again are not representative of what mice evolution planned. The mice metabolism has some similarities in that food goes in, poo comes out, but the enzymes and inner workings are different.

Lastly mice studies are designed to produce maximum stress to shorten the duration and thus costs. They are force fed and unfortunately shortened lifespans followed by post mortem, which are outcomes that a human study would not tolerate. So there are significant differences in methodology that reduce the possibility of taking their conclusions as a slam dunk for humans.

 

[bulkbiker]

So there are significant differences in methodology that reduce the possibility of taking their conclusions as a slam dunk for humans.

I'd class them as a complete waste of time for the study of human nutrition based on your description of them.

 

[Oldvatr]

I'd class them as a complete waste of time for the study of human nutrition based on your description of them.

My description was my opinion, based on my own observations. We need to close the circle. If human patients presenting to hospital with symptoms as described in the mouse studies were asked if they used seed oils, then maybe we can collate evidence that could support the mice studies, But we do not. In this computer age we are hopeless at collating data that would remove these doubts. We could use the pointers from the mouse studies to direct human trials but that needs funding, and that means government support since there are no funding sources that would take up the challenge privately. It is the sort of thing the Wellcome and Nuffield trusts were known for, but they are being distracted into other pathways

Edit to add: GP's have for years asked us if we smoke or drink alcohol. It is printed on every test results sheet / review report I have had since leaving Uni. We should be given a tick-box questionnaire to fill in while in the doctor or dentist waiting room. Even in A&E it could have use in guiding treatment, Put it through a scanner and auto collate the results anonymously would be something that technology could handle today. Do the numbers game on it - it will never be exact anyway as we know from experience.

 

[Mr_Pot]

My description was my opinion, based on my own observations. We need to close the circle. If human patients presenting to hospital with symptoms as described in the mouse studies were asked if they used seed oils, then maybe we can collate evidence that could support the mice studies, But we do not. In this computer age we are hopeless at collating data that would remove these doubts. We could use the pointers from the mouse studies to direct human trials but that needs funding, and that means government support since there are no funding sources that would take up the challenge privately. It is the sort of thing the Wellcome and Nuffield trusts were known for, but they are being distracted into other pathways

Edit to add: GP's have for years asked us if we smoke or drink alcohol. It is printed on every test results sheet / review report I have had since leaving Uni. We should be given a tick-box questionnaire to fill in while in the doctor or dentist waiting room. Even in A&E it could have use in guiding 8treatment, Put it through a scanner and auto collate the results anonymously would be something that technology could handle today. Do the numbers game on it - it will never be exact anyway as we know from experience.

They ask if you smoke as that accepted as being harmful. They ask how much alcohol you drink as excess is known to be harmful. If they asked if you consumed seed oils particularly with no quantity attached, that would imply they are also harmful. Manufacturers would ask for conclusive proof or take legal action to have the questions removed.

 

[Robbity]

Processing is another red herring, what is important is the end product.
Here is the typical process for drinking water....
View attachment 42079

Going off-topic a bit - that made me smile as when I, a northerner, "emigrated" down south to Berkshire, most of my work mates who rather surprisingly were also ex-northerners, cautioned me about the dire effects of drinking Thames water - apparently a cause of the dread "Berkshire Belly" due to it being completely recycled at least seven times before it finally reached our taps once more.... It sort of puts processed "vegetable" oils into perspective for me.