Why so low

Grazer said:

mep73 said:

My endo gave me the above 5 advice long before I was placed on insulin, I've only been on insulin since 2010.

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And what drugs WERE you on then, to have an endo. T2s on diet only don't have "endos" You obviously didn't go from diet only to insulin, so if you were on glic or some other insulin-stimulating drugs, then my earlier post regarding hypos still applies. As does xyzzy's, and as does Pneu's, an experienced type 1. As does every T2 on diet only/metformin on this forum who is joyous when they get a reading in the 4's. Do you think All the succesful T2s on here getting HbA1cs in the 5's, low 5's and even 4's do it by keeping their BGs above 5 at all times?

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My BG's are around 50% in the 4's 50% low 5's I have never had anything remotely like a hypo - ever!

+1 Sheepy.

Mep - Celast is a diet only T2 not an insulin user. Yes we all agree as an insulin user if your levels drop below 4 you should look to correct pretty rapidly but your rule simply does not apply to a diet only T2. If it did then your statement would apply to the entire non diabetic population.

The average non diabetics fasting level is in the low 4's. The key word there is AVERAGE. As in

Pneu said:

Right... there needs to be a clear definition here... many non-diabetics regularly have blood glucose of below 4 mmol/l... if the mean fasting blood glucose of the general non-diabetic population is in the very low 4's then by definition some people are going to have fasting blood glucose in the mid - high 3's... (3.3 mmol/l is commonly citied as the 'lower level' of normal blood glucose). What you don't see is them regularly falling over or collapsing from hypo's because this is 'normal' blood glucose.

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As an insulin using diabetic you are quite correctly told to watch out if your level goes below 4 as it could be an indicator of the beginnings of a hypo.

Pneu said:

If you take insulin then of course you need to be much more aware of what your blood glucose are doing... as a type I diabetic of many years the danger from hypo's comes from the rapid change in blood glucose that insulin can produce.. Along with the fact that your body is not in control of the amount of insulin in effect... in a non-insulin controlled diabetic as your blood glucose drops lower your body stops producing insulin, your liver dumps glucose and all is well... in an insulin controlled diabetic that insulin keeps acting if there is too much insulin in your system them your livers glucose dump is not enough and your blood glucose continues to drop..

Therefore it is advised that you keep your blood glucose above 4 mmol/l... this ensures that you have some buffer to dangerously low blood glucose and also ensures that you maintain a hypo awareness (for most people)...

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yes... my sig says I was diagnosed in 1998 so I guess you could say I have years behind me with this condition too and I'm just sharing my experiences. I'm not joking about what I'm telling you.... I definitely had hypos on metformin and it was no dizzy spell. I'm not stranger to hypos and I've had plenty. I have also always been under the care of an endo for diabetes as it's a requirement here.... they are the specialists. The main point I'm making is that "you have to be careful". Eg. my endo has always advised you can't drive for half an hour after a hypo episode. Everyone is different and no one person is the same. I think you have to be careful to not just think that you're safe when you may not be. And it is very important to have a discussion if you're not sure with your medical team.... here it's an endo... but maybe in your country it's someone different.

mep73 said:

It might be worthwhile having a discussion with your endocrinologist about this as everyone is different. Too many hypos is not good for your body either. Be aware of the symptoms and also be aware that you could have hypo unawareness too.

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:lol: The thought that T2 Diabetics in the UK get access to endochronologists is the funniest thing I've heard all year... :lol:

Defren,

Ditto on the gender on reading your posts. Have no idea why? Refering to yourself as a Geordie maybe just because I have only known chaps from your fair city but other than that no idea.

TTP

mep73 said:

The main point I'm making is that "you have to be careful"

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I agree, however you just need to be as careful as a non diabetic. Anyone can hypo in extreme cases. As to hypoing on Metformin then I don't dispute that may have been the case with you. However the overall risk of hypoing on Metformin has been determined to be the same as that of a non diabetic and is for example why Metformin only (or diet only) diabetics do not have to report their condition to the DVLA (the body responsible for driving licencing in the UK) So in the vast number of cases diabetics on Metformin do not hypo and warning them of a hypo risk is the same as warning any other non diabetic of the risk of hypoing.

It can be very counter productive to a diet only T2's recovery as making them think they have a significant hypo risk may put them off trying to normalise their levels which is far more dangerous than a remote hypo risk.

grazer said:

As does every T2 on diet only/metformin on this forum who is joyous when they get a reading in the 4's. Do you think All the succesful T2s on here getting HbA1cs in the 5's, low 5's and even 4's do it by keeping their BGs above 5 at all times?

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Precisely. My daily average taken across a range of readings is normally around 4.8. Once I get to lunch I am quite irritated if any of my readings are above 5 apart from perhaps my 2 hour main meal one. To get an average of 4.8 when you have above 5 readings most mornings means you have low 4's for the rest of the day. This is good it means my levels are running very close to those of a non diabetic.

I won't mention her by name but one regular posting T2 has fasting levels in the high 3's and as far as I'm aware does not spend the entire of her life recovering from hypos.

thetallerpaul said:

Defren,

Ditto on the gender on reading your posts. Have no idea why? Refering to yourself as a Geordie maybe just because I have only known chaps from your fair city but other than that no idea.

TTP

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There are lots of us female Geordie's Paul :lol: Anyway, as far as this forum (a medical self help community) gender is not really an issue. But I will confess, I have smiled a little today, and I am sure when I tell himself who is away working this week it will make him chuckle too.

Joanna.

xyzzy said:

However the overall risk of hypoing on Metformin has been determined to be the same as that of a non diabetic and is for example why Metformin only (or diet only) diabetics do not have to report their condition to the DVLA

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And is also why the NHS and NICE justify not giving us testing equipment, because we don't have dangerous hypos, just low blood sugars like anyone else.

Joanna, if that is your real name,

I am aware of female Geordies having been out on a couple of nights out on the toon (Sun Pun!). I just don't know any of them as any lady able to dress like that in that temperature is a different species to me. Are you in that bracket or are you a human female, with a thermostat etc?

TTP

thetallerpaul said:

Joanna, if that is your real name,

I am aware of female Geordies having been out on a couple of nights out on the toon (Sun Pun!). I just don't know any of them as any lady able to dress like that in that temperature is a different species to me. Are you in that bracket or are you a human female, with a thermostat etc?

TTP

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In my younger days I did used to have an odd tipple in 'the toon'. However, as I am old enough to be a grandmother now, my thermostat would not allow it. Not that even in my younger days I wore skirts shorter than a belt, or tops that everything fell out of. Even my Uni days were more refined than that. :lol:

PS Yes, Joanna is my real name, what an odd question :shock:

Sorry Joanna, its an obscure Simpson reference. Lionel Hutz, Attorney-at-Law adds that to any statement involving a name even when its apparent it is their real name.

thetallerpaul said:

Sorry Joanna, its an obscure Simpson reference. Lionel Hutz, Attorney-at-Law adds that to any statement involving a name even when its apparent it is their real name.

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Ahhhh perhaps why I didn't get what you meant Paul. Not a Simpson's fan Duh :lol:

I'm think you can generalise too much here. My fasting readings are often below 4 and that now feels normal. I think you get used to lower readings as your numbers come down generally.
At above 6.5 I know feel like I'm too high.

I think I have only had one true hypo (accompanied by vomiting and caused by too much anerobic exercise). Before that point I thought I'd had lots of hypos, but they were probably just warning shots from my body to make me eat.