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Why the opposition to low carb?

Oldvatr said:
I think the following may be of interest to our reaaders here:

http://lowcarbdownunder.com.au/events/

I have tried to get past the advertising that this site displays, but I cannot guarantee it to be ad free.
Click to expand...
I was interested to note that quite a few of the UK low carb speakers like Dr Unwin (@Southport GP), Zoe Harcombe, Sam Feltham and Ivor Cummins are presenting at the Low Carb Breckenridge conference. Not to mention Charlotte Summers, COO of Diabetes.Co.Uk who is presenting on the forum's Low Carb Program. The USD$20 fee for live streaming the conference seems very reasonable.
 
Confirmed Presenters:
  • Nina Teicholz – “The Real Food Politics: Institutional Defense of the Status-Quo”
  • Dr Jason Fung – “A New Paradigm of Insulin Resistance”
  • Dr Ron Rosedale – “Protein Intake, Cancer and Aging”
  • Dr Mark Berger – “Low Carb Radiology: Enhancing Your Image”
  • Dr Dawn Lemanne – “Carbohydrate Restriction in Cancer Therapy”
  • Dr Amy Savagian – “Ketogenic Nutrition in Functional Medicine”
  • Erynn Kay, PA-C – “Does Fiber Make You Fat? – The Gut’s Effect on Weight and Metabolism”
  • Ivor Cummins – “The Pathways of Insulin Resistance, and Relevance to Chronic Disease”
  • Dr Zoe Harcombe – “Should dietary fat guidelines have been introduced ?”
  • Dr Zoe Harcombe – “HPCSA vs. Professor Noakes: A bird’s eye view”
  • Dr Ted Naiman – “Hyperinsulinemia”
  • Jimmy Moore – “The Patient’s Perspective on Fasting”
  • Dr David Unwin – “The Glycaemic Index: Helping patients with Type 2 Diabetes”
  • Dr Mike Eades – “Does Fat Really Burn in the Flame of Carbohydrate?”
  • Dr Andreas Eenfeldt – “The Food Revolution”
  • Michel Lundell – “To Assess Ketosis by Blood or Breath Testing?”
  • Maria Emmerich – “Ketogenic Cooking”
  • Sam Feltham – “Creating Change In Public Health”
  • Dr Mark Cucuzella – “Can you Run 50 miles in Sandals and on Bacon and Eggs – Metabolic Flexibility for Athletic Performance”
  • Antonio Martinez – “The Legal, Political, and Public Health Policy Challenges and Opportunities of Low Carb”
  • Dr Peter Ballerstedt – “Ruminant Reality: Diet, Human Health and the Environment”
  • Dr Eric Westman – “Clinical Experience Using LCHF: Case Examples and Tailoring”
  • Dr Nicolai Worm – “Nutrition Therapy of Non-Alcoholic Liver Disease – The Most Convincing Argument for Low-Carb Eating”
  • Jamie Caporosso – “Keto Paleo advantages for Athlete’s and Chasing Ketones”
  • Charlotte Summers – “The Low Carb Program: 150,000 anecdotes”
  • Darryl Edwards – “The Case for Physical Activity”
  • Dr Benjamin Bikman – “Insulin vs. Ketones: the battle for brown fat”
  • Dr Tommy Wood – “The way to man’s heart is through the stomach”
  • Beatrice Lunday – “Tackling brain cancer – A Personal Journey”
  • David Feldmen – “The Dynamic Influence of a High Fat Diet on cholesterol variability”
  • Laura Saslow – “A Four Month Online Very Low Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet and Lifestyle Intervention Study”
  • Dr Gary Fettke – “Model of Inflammation”
  • Dr John Schoonbee – “Who are the financial beneficiaries of LCHF”
  • David Korsunsky – “Personalised Health Analytics”
  • Dr Maryanne Demasi – Emcee
  • Dr Jeff Gerber – “Cholesterol OMG!”
  • Dr Rod Tayler – “Fine Tuning LCHF for Optimal Health”
 
low carb dietitian said:
I’d love to know what you think.
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Unfortunately it is quite clear that the interest of all these organizations are no longer in restoring the health of the patients, where normalization of glucose/insulin levels are not even suggested as a target. They continue to equate enjoying life with enjoying carbs...all the eat well be active programs seems to be a charade to protect the interests of the actual stakeholders in the organizations, which are largely big pharma and food companies.

It is ironic that they don't see the staggering statistics as a failure of the current approach. But choose to put the blame on non-compliance. The fact is that when we did not rely on will power to become T2D...we don't need to depend on will power to regain our health. That is the appeal and sustainability of the LCHF approach vs eat less move more. It is an enjoyable and empowering journey.
 
I seem to keep getting questions asking why opposition to low carbs, i have read Kokhongw posting about why government and others would like us all to not do low carbs for various reasons,but I have never posted that I am against low carbs.Why would I be on here if I didn't do the LCHF diet.So please stop your post on this subject
 
If you look at the subject title for this thread then it is "why-the-opposition-to-low-carb", and it is a discussion open to all to argue both sides of the coin. So far most posters have been pro-low-carb and expressing despair that the authoritative bodies such as NHS Care Providers, nutritionists etc are generally anti-low-carb.These comments tend to be non personal so are not aimed at anyone here. But it would be wrong to ask people not to post just because they take a stance that you personally may not agree with. This is an Open Forum, and freedom of speech must prevail. Sorry.
 
Thanks @Indy51 just signed up.
 
Sorry Oldvatr misunderstood it's how it's put out I couldn't work out why people thought I was against has I had quoted about this,I'm really not used to all this posting,threads?etc.and all the terminology online never done it upto joining this diabetes site.
My granddaughter put me on Facebook I stayed 3 weeks then deleted it found it stressful so bear with me I'll either master it or pester people until I work all this out.
 
That's ok/ I think we all here understand where you were coming ftom. No harm done GG
 
I am sad that DUK is not supportive, I think that is where we need to make a start.

I tried, and I recognised others from this site on their forum, but I was getting myself moderated out, and I gave up , It became a bit like casting pearls before swine.

But DUK has a mouthpiece amd should be representative of the people that it was set up to help Unfortunately it seems to have got into bed with those with a different agenda, and until they find more ethical funding sources, then I fear the bias will continue.

At the moment it seems all we can do is use their forum where we can to show how we benefit from the LC way of controlling our condition, and posting the links to the relevant research where appropriate. We need to be missionaries, but without the zeal. KISS = keep it simple, stupid.
 
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Great article people on here can substantiate these findings,the message needs to get out there to people who can change things for all diabetics. K
 
I think the reason for the opposition to low carb is the fear of being left looking very stupid when they have to admit they've been wrong all this time.
 
Changing dietary recommendations would likely have to involve discrediting the research behind the current carb-heavy recommendations. And due to the draconian slander laws in the UK, it could be very dangerous for an academic or other researcher to try to do that.

Good science isn't the priority, unfortunately.
 
No, the problem is that we, the people, believe in what the regulatory bodies tell us rather than an individual persons word. Now that most regulatory bodies have been heavily infiltrated by vested interests through them funding research, uni professorships, drugs trials, food trials, etc, then it is easy for these bodies to be influenced simply by threatening to withdraw funding.

Last year we saw scientific papers released that showed strongly that the Ancel Keyes hypothesis regarding low fat was wrong, and also that a low fat diet leads to a shorter life span. The original studies into statins and others published before 2006 were shown to have beeen incorrectly interpreted and biassed, but we still follow the leaders. We are seeing drugs that were approved as being safe now being withdrawn or restricted (-glitizones, -gliptins et al)

Gradually these walls will be dismantled as more people become aware and start listening to the new drummers on the block. But until we can sort out these funding issues, then our establishment will remain totally in control.
 

You'll get a Government reply written by Diabetes UK, endorsing their advice & the NHS "Eatwell guide."
 

Welcome to the forum, Jennifer. I'm glad to see you are still making a living, despite the evil efforts of the DAA. I've looked at your references & am horrified at your treatment.

I started low carbing 9 years ago, on the advice of a type 1, Fergus on this forum.
The incentive was a crippling neuropathy & other complications - extreme tiredness, beginning of retinopathy & reduction in kidney function.
Doctor suggested hospital investigation for the neuropathy. My HbA1c was 6.7 which was considered acceptable. [It's currently 6.6 & has been lower.]
I was diagnosed T2 8 years before, age 61. and had carefully followed the DUK/NHS complex carb, low fat dietary advice. I had been told that diabetes was progressive, however well I followed their diet, so followed it carefully..​
My BGs immediately improved & in 3 months I was completely our of pain & back on the tennis court.
Dr fully approves my diet, & supports me with test strip prescriptions.
I did of course phone DUK with the good news & got the answer: "If it works for you, carry on, but we will not change our advice."

I would have hoped my experience is valid & of interest to the DUKs of this world - 78 next month; playing tennis & table tennis at club standard; free of diabetes symptoms; HbA1c=6.6; 2-3 metformin daily.

I did manage to make them feel guilty - they sent an email explaining that they do support low carb [actually LCLF] - [when people do it, but they don't advocate its use, as it is one of many dietary options.] Then I met a DUK rep at a meeting & gave her my story. I got a personal reply - identical to the email sent 9 months before.

That got us into an apology & 6 months of correspondence in which I analysed their documentation & showed how they seriously distorted the references they were quoting to support their diet recommendations.

After those exchanges, their last words were:
"Thanks for your follow up email. I’m hoping that we can get a clearer outcome this time. From the various discussions, the summary of our positions are as follows:

· does Diabetes UK support low carb diet as an approach to managing diabetes – Diabetes UK’s answer is Yes. We see low carb as one of the many approaches.

· does Diabetes UK support low carb diet as the default approach to managing diabetes – Diabetes UK’s answer is No. This is based on the fact that other approaches are also beneficial so we think people should choose an approach based on their personal preference and that they are likely to stick to.

These are positions that have been informed by robust review of the research. Unfortunately, you disagree with our positions and there appears to be is very little chance of us resolving such disagreements with our conversations. Whilst Diabetes UK highlights personal success stories through our various channels it is important that our nutrition guidelines are based on published evidence. I’m afraid it would be unhelpful to keep changing our position on a very topical subject like diet based on personal accounts. Apologies for my simplicity of thoughts, but if we were to say today that everyone with diabetes should follow low carb diet, what do we do when we are approached by someone else who has put their Type 2 diabetes into remission with very low calorie diet? That will be a recipe for confusion especially when there is no consistent evidence to support one approach over the other."​

I'm hoping that the many hours of literature study, & years of experience they casually brush off can be used for the benefit of the diabetic community, so I am on a community seeking to improve the approach to new patients.

The problem is, of course, that most of the approaches fail badly, resulting in the public health crisis that threatens the NHS, with the results of diabetes complications.

The concept of a dietary approach - LCHF - that minimises complications & can restore health does not seem attractive to the organisations. Perhaps there is no money to be made by drug companies & cereal producers who sponsor diabetes research.

Hiding behind "robust review of the research .... published evidence" is a lie which I have demonstrated to them by referring to their sources. In any case, they might consider a research project on a high fat diet to be unethical.

Hope we can all take it forward for the benefit of all & the frustration of the DAs & vested interests - & professional pride.
 
In truth, DUK are closely involved with several recent TV programs where diabetes was discussed, and are active in supporting PHE and other similar bodies. They exhibit in Supermarkets, and have the notable distinction of holding raffles where the prizes were hampers of gorgeous carb grub, among other such prizes. They do not promote LC ftom their stands at all. It is all Eatewell#2 now.

One of the ptograms they were proud to sponsor (Panorama, I believe) was all about how amputations and bariatric surgery should be offered to diabetics as a matter of course since THESE SOLUTIONS ARE THE ONLY KNOWN CURE.

You can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

I also believe that DCUK (this site) were also involved in one program, and did manage to discuss LC diet. I am sure I will be corrected if I have got this wrong since I am speaking from memory.
 

I did refer to those programmes in my emails to DUK:

Recent BBC programmes

I'm sure you have also seen the recent BBC programmes which addressed the problems - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07xwstx/fat-v-carbs-with-jamie-owen

which was basically a very successful short-term dietary experiment, and

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yklv8

“Diabetes – the hidden killer” which was a very serious & depressing programme offering amputation or stomach surgery as the ultimate treatments for diabetes.

Again the statistics presented in the 'Balance' editorial highlighted the relevance of both programmes, & seemingly the inadequacy of NHS/DUK advice. The GP commenting on Jamie Owen's experiment seemed very dubious.

The Panorama programme clearly underlined your own emphasis on weight reduction, though offering no help apart from more stomach operations.
.........
Or is Diabetes UK failing in providing the information needed by diabetics as they live with a “hidden killer” or even providing out-dated information that does not take into account the reassessment of the evidence you rely on?
​
They did not reply to that, so I sent a reminder. Their final reply is quoted in my previous post.
 
The infamous study by Ancel Keys that was (& still is) the basis for associating fat consumption with heart disease was reviewed:

14. Harcombe Z, Baker JS, Cooper SM, Davies B, Sculthorpe N, DiNicolantonio JJ, Grace F. Evidence from randomised controlled trials did not support the introduction of dietary fat guidelines in 1977 and 1983: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Open Heart. 2015;2(1):e000196.​

but was reported & discredited in the DUK position statement on dietary fat - https://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documen...tion in the management of Type 2 Diabetes.pdf

"Another article has questioned the historical dietary guidance on fat reduction for cardioprotection [14], but it approached the topic from a retrospective perspective and was controversial."​

That shows the honesty of the team at DUK.
 
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