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Working pancreas, why given insulin???

nannoo_bird

nannoo_bird

Well-Known Member
Messages
215
Saw the diabetes nurse yesterday who told me the result of a urine test I had had proved that my pancreas is producing "loads of insulin", in her words. I was delighted, but then found myself getting angry and confused. I have had T2 for around 12 years. I have been on insulin for about 8 years. I have only recently discovered carb-free "dieting", which has changed my life. BUT ... if after all these years my pancreas seems to be working "normally" (excuse all the quotation marks!), despite my body being flooded with excess external insulin, why was I ever given insulin in the first place? I understand that T2 means that the cells of the body cannot absorb the insulin that is produced, but no-one told me that by reducing carbs I could reverse the disease, before giving me insulin. Can anyone help with my confusion?
 
I didn't know they could identify that through a urine test? That's the first I've heard of that.

I have had a GAD test and c-peptide test done 3 times. The 3rd c-peptide test showed I have insulin deficiency. I was placed on insulin for this reason. By the way I'd had T2 for 12 years too when I was placed on insulin beginning of 2010. I've been on MDI ever since then.

The only thing I can think of as to why you've been placed on insulin if you have sufficient insulin is that your sugar levels are not in normal range? If that is the case, then I get why they're doing that... if not, then yeh I wouldn't have a clue what their aim is. You don't need insulin unless you have insulin deficiency or problems controlling your sugar levels any other way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi

T2 is a condition of insulin resistance. The more we have, the more we need to pump out insulin to overcome the resistance.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how much insulin you produce, if your insulin resistance just ramps up in response, then you are left with too much glucose in the blood.

I agree that the common sense response is to cut carbs, reduce the need for so much insulin, and let the resistance naturally fall. But instead, they prescribe insulin to make up the perceived 'deficit'. And we then get even fatter, and are told to lose weight...

That banging noise you can hear? That is my head hitting the nearest wall, over and over again.

This idea of insulin on insulin is standard treatment (after tablet options have proved inadequate), because there is a general failure amongst health care services and staff to differentiate treatment between different types of diabetes. And they usually have no idea that diet can have a profound effect. T1, Mody, LADA, 3c, etc, have insufficient insulin, and occasional insulin resistance. T2s have insulin resistance with insufficient insulin to cope with a high carb diet. It is a fundamental difference.
 
Brunneria said:
Hi

T2 is a condition of insulin resistance. The more we have, the more we need to pump out insulin to overcome the resistance.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how much insulin you produce, if your insulin resistance just ramps up in response, then you are left with too much glucose in the blood.

I agree that the common sense response is to cut carbs, reduce the need for so much insulin, and let the resistance naturally fall. But instead, they prescribe insulin to make up the perceived 'deficit'. And we then get even fatter, and are told to lose weight...

That banging noise you can hear? That is my head hitting the nearest wall, over and over again.

This idea of insulin on insulin is standard treatment (after tablet options have proved inadequate), because there is a general failure amongst health care services and staff to differentiate treatment between different types of diabetes. And they usually have no idea that diet can have a profound effect. T1, Mody, LADA, 3c, etc, have insufficient insulin, and occasional insulin resistance. T2s have insulin resistance with insufficient insulin to cope with a high carb diet. It is a fundamental difference.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the responses. The nurse agreed with me that the standard advice STILL given is wrong, and that the NHS still treat T1 and T2 as the same disease when they are fundamentally different. I now know what to do, but I am confused about the test I had - Mep suggests that they cannot tell whether my pancreas is working through a urine test. In which case, what did they test for?
 
Brunneria said:
. T1, Mody, LADA, 3c, etc, have insufficient insulin, and occasional insulin resistance. T2s have insulin resistance with insufficient insulin to cope with a high carb diet. It is a fundamental difference.
Click to expand...

Although I'm one that has insulin deficiency as shown in a c-peptide test. I'm still T2. So not all T2's are just insulin resistant. Of course all T2's would have insulin resistance, but not all T2's have sufficient insulin. How do I know that? Well I proved it myself with having 2 c-peptides that showed I had sufficient insulin, until the 3rd one I had showed I didn't. So it can change and does. I guess I'm dealing with both insulin resistance and insulin deficiency. But yes, probably a majority of T2's would not be deficient in insulin.
 
nannoo_bird said:
Thank you for the responses. The nurse agreed with me that the standard advice STILL given is wrong, and that the NHS still treat T1 and T2 as the same disease when they are fundamentally different. I now know what to do, but I am confused about the test I had - Mep suggests that they cannot tell whether my pancreas is working through a urine test. In which case, what did they test for?
Click to expand...

I'm not in the UK, so I don't know if there is a test they do there that they don't do here. But I've never had any doc tell me they can see I have insulin in my urine. They tell me if I have sugar in it though.
 
nannoo_bird said:
I just found this, which might explain the test. http://www.diabetesgenes.org/content/urine-c-peptide-creatinine-ratio
Click to expand...

Nannoo, if you have access to your Doc's website and your patient record, you should be able to see your test results, and there they will identify which tests they have done.

On my Doc's site, I can see that in December I have HBa1c, LTG, Urea and electrolytes, Liver function tests and Serum lipid levels, and their results.

Worth a look?
 
AndBreathe said:
Nannoo, if you have access to your Doc's website and your patient record, you should be able to see your test results, and there they will identify which tests they have done.

On my Doc's site, I can see that in December I have HBa1c, LTG, Urea and electrolytes, Liver function tests and Serum lipid levels, and their results.

Worth a look?
Click to expand...

Wow, where do you live? My doctor has to be pushed to print out the results for me when I visit. I am not even allowed to e-mail the surgery!!! However, I have a good relationship the the diabetic nurse, and have asked her for all the details.
 
nannoo_bird said:
Wow, where do you live? My doctor has to be pushed to print out the results for me when I visit. I am not even allowed to e-mail the surgery!!! However, I have a good relationship the the diabetic nurse, and have asked her for all the details.
Click to expand...

I live in the Midlands, but as I understand it, practises were supposed to be having this facility by April (if I recall) this year. I know of someone, in Devon, whose practise doesn't have it yet though.

My practise has only ever promoted the online appointment side of things. I had to approach them a couple of times for the additional access. This seems to be the norm, from what I hear, anecdotally.

For completeness, my surgery doesn't "do" email access for anything. I don't believe they are required to, and I can see how that could have the potential for abuse or just distraction.

Try giving your surgery a call?
 
AndBreathe said:
I live in the Midlands, but as I understand it, practises were supposed to be having this facility by April (if I recall) this year. I know of someone, in Devon, whose practise doesn't have it yet though.

My practise has only ever promoted the online appointment side of things. I had to approach them a couple of times for the additional access. This seems to be the norm, from what I hear, anecdotally.

For completeness, my surgery doesn't "do" email access for anything. I don't believe they are required to, and I can see how that could have the potential for abuse or just distraction.

Try giving your surgery a call?
Click to expand...
Thanks, AndBreathe. My surgery could not be more unhelpful. I asked one of the doctors (you don't always see the same doctor) if he would check my (many) medications for contraindications, and he said "here's a website, check it yourself". I am in the process of changing doctors.
 
nannoo_bird said:
Thanks, AndBreathe. My surgery could not be more unhelpful. I asked one of the doctors (you don't always see the same doctor) if he would check my (many) medications for contraindications, and he said "here's a website, check it yourself". I am in the process of changing doctors.
Click to expand...

Personally, if I had medication I was concerned about any detrimental interactions, I'd always have a chat with the Pharmacist first. They're usually a mine of helpful information on these things.

Is this the one he gave you? https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
 
AndBreathe said:
Personally, if I had medication I was concerned about any detrimental interactions, I'd always have a chat with the Pharmacist first. They're usually a mine of helpful information on these things.

Is this the one he gave you? https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
Click to expand...

Yes, but if I understood it correctly, you can only check one drug against another. How do you check 9 different medications to see if any one of them interacts with any other? What I needed was professional advice. I will ask the pharmacist - thank you.
 
nannoo_bird said:
Thanks, AndBreathe. My surgery could not be more unhelpful. I asked one of the doctors (you don't always see the same doctor) if he would check my (many) medications for contraindications, and he said "here's a website, check it yourself". I am in the process of changing doctors.
Click to expand...

Since my doc has never, to my knowledge bothered to check for contraindications between meds (despite me finding them clearly labelled on sites such as the one AndBreathe has linked), I check EVERYTHING now.

Last year, I found a contraindication between a new and old med, clearly marked, and rang the doc to discuss it. His response:
'Oh, well, I am inclined to take the risk. It won't kill you.'

Nuff said, really.

I too am trying to change my doc, but there is a shortage round here, and they are only obliged to take on people who have just moved to the area, not people who just feel their doc is a useless waste of space. :)
 
Brunneria said:
Since my doc has never, to my knowledge bothered to check for contraindications between meds (despite me finding them clearly labelled on sites such as the one AndBreathe has linked), I check EVERYTHING now.

Last year, I found a contraindication between a new and old med, clearly marked, and rang the doc to discuss it. His response:
'Oh, well, I am inclined to take the risk. It won't kill you.'

Nuff said, really.

I too am trying to change my doc, but there is a shortage round here, and they are only obliged to take on people who have just moved to the area, not people who just feel their doc is a useless waste of space. :)
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I have had so many bad experiences with our local "practice" (you see whoever is available, or wait ages to see a specific doc) that I have made enquiries and will be accepted by another practice. But my diabetic nurse suggests I get all these tests out of the way before starting with a new practice. I understand that surgeries were supposed to make your records available to you online by April of this year, but the website for our practice still states that those records are for practice staff only!!! I know that GPs are limited by time and money constraints, but their "laissez-faire" attitude is really unacceptable, and sometimes downright dangerous.
 
nannoo_bird said:
Yes, but if I understood it correctly, you can only check one drug against another. How do you check 9 different medications to see if any one of them interacts with any other? What I needed was professional advice. I will ask the pharmacist - thank you.
Click to expand...
Yep, @nannoo_bird , The pharmacist is the professional in this case (and in my case far more accessible & helpful!)
 
nannoo_bird said:
Yes, but if I understood it correctly, you can only check one drug against another. How do you check 9 different medications to see if any one of them interacts with any other? What I needed was professional advice. I will ask the pharmacist - thank you.
Click to expand...

If you go to that url, there is an option to add more drugs. I don't know if there's any limit on the numbers, but I can't imagine your number is beyond it. It then goes through each potential clash, with a high/medium/ rating.
 
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