Dieting 'n Glucose

[Maxfactor]

G'day from downunder.
I'm an ex-pat and was diagnosed with type 2 about 4 years ago. Have been able to keep it under control with careful eating but this has slipped in the last year and the latest HbA1c wasn't great at 7.3
Metabolic syndrome, high blood pressure, fatty liver/liver function not great, kidneys now on the slide (albumin in urine), sleep apnea and overweight since a child.
Now 50 and the weight HAS to come off and stay off....have lost 10kg in the last month with another 25kg to go.

I used to be on low fat diet and never lost any weight. Three years ago, went low carbs high protein, high fat.
Can't do that now as I need to keep the protein AND the carbs down and I'm not convinced that high animal fat is ok either.
Anyway I lost the first 10 kg recently with basically no carbs and very little protein BUT my in the last week dizzy fuzzy etc.
I have got my fasting level in the morning down to 5.3mmol (which I think is equivalent to about 4.8 HbA1c).
Apparently the brain needs some glucose to function properly and without it there can be a reduction of self limiting behaviour.
Ate some strange (but excellent) Greek dip over the last 3 days made mostly out of potato and all the brain symptoms have gone BUT I'm not now losing any weight.
Apparently (depending who you read on the net) the brain needs anything between 30-130 grams of glucose. Some say the body can make it's own (ketosis) and others say not. Clearly in my case, I can't, so I believe I need to take in some glucose every day but NO fructose. The slightest fructose or grains and I dont lose weight. I'm also trying to keep my Omega's in balance as there seems to be evidence that Metabolic Syndrome/Obesity/Diabetes can be ultimately put down to inflammation caused by an imbalance of Omega's (6 is inflammatory 3 is anti-inflammatory I believe) and high inflammatory foods such as fructose.

So here's the problem, if I take even slightly too much glucose, I dont lose weight, if I don't take glucose, I feel very bad.
It seems that fruits always have fructose with glucose so that's them out. Sweet potato has sucrose I believe. So my options seem to be either glucose powder (probably not a good idea) or the only vegetable that I can find that might fit the bill is potato.
25% of the potato is starch and that turns into glucose. Potato only has 1% of actual sugar. I'm thinking that 100grams (therefore 25g glucose ) of potato per day, spaced out during the day, might solve the problem. Potato would be a lower GI than pure glucose.
I am on the right tract to solving this dieting problem?
Thanks.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi and welcome,

There is no need to eat any extra carbs as this will raise your blood sugar levels. You need to increase your fat consumption. This will provide your brain (and other body parts) with the energy it needs. It doesn't need carbs. If your carb consumption is low enough your body will burn fat instead. You should lose weight and feel much better in yourself. It isn't easy getting the balance of carbs/fat/protein right. It needs a bit of trial and error, but once you get it right, Bingo!

 

[Maxfactor]

Hi and welcome,

There is no need to eat any extra carbs as this will raise your blood sugar levels. You need to increase your fat consumption. This will provide your brain (and other body parts) with the energy it needs. It doesn't need carbs. If your carb consumption is low enough your body will burn fat instead. You should lose weight and feel much better in yourself. It isn't easy getting the balance of carbs/fat/protein right. It needs a bit of trial and error, but once you get it right, Bingo!

Thanks for that. Where do you get your 30g of carbs from and what fats do you eat? The only fat I'm comfortable with due to the inflammation caused by most animal fats, is fish oil. I have been taking a lot of high strength EPA/DHA fish oil capsules and that hasn't done the trick for the brain. I'm going to up the protein by eating mostly fresh raw salmon (not smoked as it's got a lot of salt and some sugar put in during the smoking), as it's the only oily fish I can find that is high in 3 but low in 6 Omega's.

 

[Cauliflower_rice]

Thanks for that. Where do you get your 30g of carbs from and what fats do you eat? The only fat I'm comfortable with due to the inflammation caused by most animal fats, is fish oil. I have been taking a lot of high strength EPA/DHA fish oil capsules and that hasn't done the trick for the brain. I'm going to up the protein by eating mostly fresh raw salmon (not smoked as it's got a lot of salt and some sugar put in during the smoking), as it's the only oily fish I can find that is high in 3 but low in 6 Omega's.

Hi I follow a lchf diet and eat vegetables grown above the ground. I follow Bernsteins 6, 12,and 12 carbs for the day. If you search this site for low carb foods, you will find a good list, though you will need to weigh the food to find out the carbs in the weight you are eating. As for fats have you thought about avacados? Also have a look at information around coconut oil and chia seeds. Good luck and happy recipe hunting!

 

[Maxfactor]

Hi I follow a lchf diet and eat vegetables grown above the ground. I follow Bernsteins 6, 12,and 12 carbs for the day. If you search this site for low carb foods, you will find a good list, though you will need to weigh the food to find out the carbs in the weight you are eating. As for fats have you thought about avacados? Also have a look at information around coconut oil and chia seeds. Good luck and happy recipe hunting!

I had an avocado for breakfast coincidentally. I was thinking about olive oil as that is the least inflammatory oil but not sure if
vegetable fats, (the good ones), have the same effect as animal fats in helping the body produce glucose?

 

[Kristin251]

I don't eat a lot of saturated fats. Mostly EVOO, avocado and nuts. I do like some grass fed beef occasionally but in small amounts. I too have kidney (stone) issues so keep protein on the low side. Can I ask how much you eat? In grams of pure protein?
If we keep our carbs low and protein low we need some fat. I prefer (and so does my CHO) plant fat

 

[Maxfactor]

I don't eat a lot of saturated fats. Mostly EVOO, avocado and nuts. I do like some grass fed beef occasionally but in small amounts. I too have kidney (stone) issues so keep protein on the low side. Can I ask how much you eat? In grams of pure protein?
If we keep our carbs low and protein low we need some fat. I prefer (and so does my CHO) plant fat

Not certain how the body processes fats into glucose, possibly a function of the liver. I have a fatty liver with raised ALT's so it may be that could be the cause of the low production of fat related glucose when I'm glucose depleted. Not sure on that one.
I don't weigh my food when dieting. Having yo yo dieted since I was 14 (Scarsdale diet in the early 80's) I can kinda feel when I am losing weight and when I'm not so I judge the food amounts from that. I lost 20kg about 3 years ago eating eggs, salmon, steak etc (all put back on) but since found out that eggs are quite inflammatory. Oxidised fats in meat (and fish and all oils) when you cook/heat them are also inflammatory. Just found a source of reasonably locally reared, grass fed beef this morning although she has to freeze it because of regs; she's a health food shop not a butcher. So at least the Omega's will be better. But raw meat, I'm not eating.
I have a feeling that it's the cholesterol in animal fats that are needed to make glucose in the body, if so fish fats and veg fats may not be the answer.....

 

[Kyi]

Hmm you need to understand your glucose supplies better. Any carbohydrates (sugars and starches) is digested into glucose. Any sugar is those chemical composes ending in an ose, Fructose,glucose,dextrose,lactose,maltose,sucrose. There is a wide variety of foods that contain these sugars. This is why low carb diets limit certain veg and fruit because they are high in starch or sugar. You are probably getting too much calcium and oxalates in your diet if you suffer from Kidney stones. Calcium is either from the food you are eating or your Vitamin D is too high and is digesting the calcium in your body. Spinach and Almonds have high oxalates and high calcium,(I have only recently learnt this) so I would watch those foods. You do not say how low your carbs limit is. If you have liver or kidney problems I wouldnt go VLC. Aim for 80-100gms per day. Proteins turn into glucose but Fats do not. High Fat but low carb/protien choices would be Avocados.Coconuts.Egg yolks.Fats.Oils. Moderate proteins beef,chicken, oily fish (dont eat the soft bones you need to reduce calcium). White fish has the protein but not the fat (brown butter sauce would fix that). You will also have to watch your calories to make sure you are not over eating what you burn. If you are suffering with Kidney or liver diease you might also want to consider the 5:2 diet to give them rest periods. Good luck with your health

 

[Daibell]

Hi. You do need to increase your fats. Many of us would say it doesn't matter about saturated fats in sensible quantities but any fat is good. Don't believe the stuff in the media about the fats you eat making you fat and coating the arteries; it's the liver that does that from the foods you eat and the sugars (any type) in particular. Fats have a complex metabolic process thru the body and the body finds it easier to store carbs as fat rather than fats. Yes, you brain needs glucose but it can get that via the fats and proteins you eat and via ketosis (fat burning) if needed. Make sure the few carbs you do eat are good ones with fibre and hence low-GI; don't have glucose.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I also think you are getting very confused. Fats do not convert to glucose. Indeed they help diabetics as they slow down the digestion of any carbs you may eat and reduce the blood sugar spikes. All carbs convert to glucose, and in certain cases a percentage of protein does.

You asked what I eat. I eat up to 30g of carbs daily, none in the mornings (protein and fat only), a bit more at lunch and the rest for evening meal. No suppers. No snacks. I eat all meat, fish, wild red salmon (tinned), eggs (loads) butter, cream, cheese, full fat yogurts, salads, vegetables especially mushrooms, tomatoes, real mayonnaise, bacon, 97% meat sausages, berries, very small portions of potatoes, flaxseed, some high protein/low carb bread. No rice. No pasta. No cereals. I drink tea with a dash of milk, and decaffeinated coffee either black or with cream, and masses of water, plus a glass of red wine with evening meal most days.

However, what I eat and what anyone else eats are individual choices. You need to use your meter to guide you as to how many and which carbs you eat. We all have different thresholds.

I was always under the impression it is carbs that are the main culprits for inflammation.

 

[Maxfactor]

I don't think I have kidney stones, 'just' albumin in urine, so at this stage I suspect that was either caused by blood pressure or the diabetes. I was trying to keep the protein low to give the kidneys a break whilst I got the diabetes and the weight under control. Now that my glucose testing seems to be showing at the the upper end of normal fasting and post prandial, and I have got my blood pressure down to normal, I think by cutting out caffeine; I am concentrating on getting the weight off. I am concerned about saturated fat due to having a fatty liver.....I really think I need to give my liver a hand by not making it deal with saturated fats. I know that fat doesnt make you fat and have proved it in the past with a high fat high protein low carb diet, by losing a lot of weight. It's just that this time around I do think I need to be very careful about too much protein and animal fats because of the state of the liver and kidneys.
So when trying a very low carb, low fat, low protein diet....well that's almost impossible. So today I have added into the plan, raw fresh salmon (kind of yucky, but at least I wont be tempted to nibble it between meals), small portions of very lean steak vacuum packed and plenty of raw green leaves and green veg. I had it today and feel fine.

I am concerned about inflammation from foods. There seems to be a direct relationship between a fatty liver and inflammation, from the studies I have read. So it would make sense to try and keep inflammatory foods to an absolute minimum especially until I have lost the weight/my liver function tests come back to normal.
For instance eggs on this index are -62 (higher than bread) and milk is -46, which are relatively high on this inflammation scale:
http://inflammationfactor.com/look-up-if-ratings/
They would be nice to have, but I just think I need to cut them out along with some other foods that might have been ok for the sort of Paleo type diet I was on before.

 

[bulkbiker]

Have you thought about trying fasting? Only eat every other day.. this will give your body a rest .. also of course will almost halve your calorie intake if you don't over compensate on your eating days. I'm doing a 40:8 hour fasting regime at the moment.
Say have dinner on sunday, eat nothing on monday, hold off until lunch on tuesday. Then dinner tuesday and a break until thursday lunching so on. I find it pretty easy and it gives good blood sugar control. When fasting I just have tea with unsweetened soya milk or coffee made with double cream and soya milk or water. According to the Jason Fung regime its a good way to reduce liver and pancreatic visceral fat.
Regards
Mark

 

[Maxfactor]

Have you thought about trying fasting? Only eat every other day.. this will give your body a rest .. also of course will almost halve your calorie intake if you don't over compensate on your eating days. I'm doing a 40:8 hour fasting regime at the moment.
Say have dinner on sunday, eat nothing on monday, hold off until lunch on tuesday. Then dinner tuesday and a break until thursday lunching so on. I find it pretty easy and it gives good blood sugar control. When fasting I just have tea with unsweetened soya milk or coffee made with double cream and soya milk or water. According to the Jason Fung regime its a good way to reduce liver and pancreatic visceral fat.
Regards
Mark

Hi Mark,
That's interesting. I heard a guy on the radio here yesterday who had a diabetes book out, talking about a fasting day regime and how losing weight fast is better than slow. I was wondering about all the stuff 'they' have said for years about metabolism shutting down and how the body stores food like crazy when it thinks there is famine on. Not sure if that's is just old science or not.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi Mark,
That's interesting. I heard a guy on the radio here yesterday who had a diabetes book out, talking about a fasting day regime and how losing weight fast is better than slow. I was wondering about all the stuff 'they' have said for years about metabolism shutting down and how the body stores food like crazy when it thinks there is famine on. Not sure if that's is just old science or not.

The jury's out on that one.. some people think that if you eat a reduced cal diet for a long time the body does the starvation thing but if you eat nothing intermittently then eat it doesn't happen. I'm a bit surprised by the 800 cal a day 8 week diet that the guy you heard Dr Michael Moseley (he's quite popular in the UK) works but quite a few people here have tried it and it seems to. I don't find my metabolism slows down when I'm fasting at all.. much the same as it usually is. As I say I found it a quite easy regime to slip into after the first couple of days when the hunger pangs were strong. I have tried going longer a couple of times but find that more difficult. Might psyche myself up to do a 3-4 days fast in a couple of weeks. Allegedly on the third day the body really starts to like the fast and you get a boost.

 

[Totto]

I'm not sure I agree that animal fats trigger inflammation or is bad for the liver. Most vegetable oils, yes, apart from olive oil and coconut oil but the saturated fats are safe as far as I know. NAFLD is caused by carbs and the main culprit seems to be fructose.

 

[Maxfactor]

Yeah I think that was the guy, he was English now I recall. One thing that did concern me and I almost phoned in, was that he didn't mention anything about inflammation. He put it all down to carbs but I reckon that is only part of the story. Yes the carbs are very often inflammatory but there are many many other foods which aren't carbs that are inflammatory too. It's got something to do with Macrophages, white blood cells ie an auto-immune response and a resulting cascade of inflammation. Looking at carbs alone isn't the whole story to fixing the problem of diabetes, fatty liver and obesity.

 

[Maxfactor]

I'm not sure I agree that animal fats trigger inflammation or is bad for the liver. Most vegetable oils, yes, apart from olive oil and coconut oil but the saturated fats are safe as far as I know. NAFLD is caused by carbs and the main culprit seems to be fructose.

If you heat any fats, they oxidise and cause inflammation....olive oil and fish oil too. And it's pretty difficult to eat animal fats which haven't been heated (dairy) or that don't need to be heated before you can eat them.
Grain fed beef is higher in Omega 6 than grass fed, which is hard to find. Omega 6 causes inflammation. So to get the fat from beef you have to eat inflammatory Omega 6. Plus you have to heat it, oxidise the fats, making them even more inflammatory...that's a double whammy.
Inflammatory foods are everywhere.

...and trying to stuff a lot of fats through a liver that is already chock full of fat, seems like a bad idea to me.
Trying to stuff a lot of fats which are also inflammatory, through a liver already inflamed/chock full of fat, seems like sheer stupidity.

Macrophages, Inflammation, and Insulin Resistance
Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine, University of California
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-physiol-021909-135846

 

[Kyi]

You have to remember if you are cutting out your fats you are cutting out your fat burners. Vitamin B's in particular are in charge of the fat burner amino acids. Most fatty foods have the most Vitamin B complexes and the fat is their carrier for absorption to the cells. By cutting out the fats you are probably doing the opposite of what you want to do. Fatty liver is more to do with the blockage in the liver because of the carbohydrates/glucose conversion. Out of interest do you know if you also have low vitamin D levels (below 60) You could try more avocados/coconut, less meat.

 

[Totto]

If you heat any fats, they oxidise and cause inflammation....olive oil and fish oil too. And it's pretty difficult to eat animal fats which haven't been heated (dairy) or that don't need to be heated before you can eat them.
Grain fed beef is higher in Omega 6 than grass fed, which is hard to find. Omega 6 causes inflammation. So to get the fat from beef you have to eat inflammatory Omega 6. Plus you have to heat it, oxidise the fats, making them even more inflammatory...that's a double whammy.
Inflammatory foods are everywhere.

...and trying to stuff a lot of fats through a liver that is already chock full of fat, seems like a bad idea to me.
Trying to stuff a lot of fats which are also inflammatory, through a liver already inflamed/chock full of fat, seems like sheer stupidity.

Macrophages, Inflammation, and Insulin Resistance
Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine, University of California
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-physiol-021909-135846

But that's the thing with saturated fats, they are much more stable. I use lard, coconut oil, duck fat or ghee for frying on higher temperatures, otherwise mostly olive oil or butter. Organic, of course.
Fat is good for you. Stop worrying.

 

[Maxfactor]

You have to remember if you are cutting out your fats you are cutting out your fat burners. Vitamin B's in particular are in charge of the fat burner amino acids. Most fatty foods have the most Vitamin B complexes and the fat is their carrier for absorption to the cells. By cutting out the fats you are probably doing the opposite of what you want to do. Fatty liver is more to do with the blockage in the liver because of the carbohydrates/glucose conversion. Out of interest do you know if you also have low vitamin D levels (below 60)

The blockage may have been caused by the carbohydrates/glucose conversion but the result is fat. It's not the cause I am dealing with now, as I have cut out the carbs, but the effect. And the effect is fat....its fatty, I had a biopsy. So surely it must be fat causing the blockage even though it wasn't fat itself which caused it's creation?

I dont know what my Vitamin D level is, not sure I have ever had it tested.
.