Dieting 'n Glucose

[AndBreathe]

Ghee made from cows, fed on grain: result Omega 6 fat. Milk heated to high temperature for pasteurization: oxidation; now at -46 inflammation index. Boiled again for a long period to reduce liquid. more oxidation. Frying at high temperature an already twice heated fat, even more oxidation.
And the butter is only one step less than that.
Good luck with eating them.

Why not invest a little time reading these following threads. @Southport GP is a UK registered medical Doctor, with a strong interest in diabetes:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...coholic-fatty-liver.84887/page-2#post-1026659

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/saturated-fats-no-longer-deadly-bmj.83420/

Thereafter, you could always search for his content. He's always an informed read.

 

[Maxfactor]

Not saying it will happen over night but its setting the right track. My blood glucose levels arent resetting just because I quit carbs over night, it takes time. There are no such pills/diets as mirical pill/diets that clean up years of abuse.

As I have made clear, I have been dieting since I was 14 years old, 36 years on and off, so I think trying to make out I have some kind of unrealistic expectation such as a miracle pill/diet is totally misplaced. And as for "abuse"....you have no idea of how or what I have eaten and what advice I have had over the decades about diet from so called professionals...nearly all 100% wrong. I'm not therefore about to just accept the armchair experts here without being sure they know what they are talking about....and of that I am not convinced. I have seen all of the ideas about food turn and turn again for decades so I'm not about to just accept that what is written by amateur doctors on a forum, is the final truth. Stony ground...no...healthily sceptical of those who set themselves up as amateur experts, yes.

 

[Lamont D]

I think you believe it's too good to be true that the answer is something that goes against everything you have learned or doctors have told, and of course the media.

By my own personal experience, and I've read a lot more the same on this forum from people who have successfully reduced there blood glucose levels and lost weight and also, like myself resolved a fatty liver, which I think would have exploded! And also liver and kidney function going to the wall.

What the posters have already told you works. Yes against all advice, low carbs works, full fat doesn't turn into to fat, low fat and sugars do that and especially carbs turn into harmful visceral fat.

I am on a ketogenic diet, I have to very low carb and full fat, saturated fats are my friend, no others will help me.

I am now five stones lighter, no organ problems, all perfect, I've got my life back.
I'm not the only one. I eat meat, salad vegetables, eggs loads!, low carb soups and curry. Small bits of fruit, nuts, etc.

Low carb works.

 

[Maxfactor]

I think you believe it's too good to be true that the answer is something that goes against everything you have learned or doctors have told, and of course the media.

By my own personal experience, and I've read a lot more the same on this forum from people who have successfully reduced there blood glucose levels and lost weight and also, like myself resolved a fatty liver, which I think would have exploded! And also liver and kidney function going to the wall.

What the posters have already told you works. Yes against all advice, low carbs works, full fat doesn't turn into to fat, low fat and sugars do that and especially carbs turn into harmful visceral fat.

I am on a ketogenic diet, I have to very low carb and full fat, saturated fats are my friend, no others will help me.

I am now five stones lighter, no organ problems, all perfect, I've got my life back.
I'm not the only one. I eat meat, salad vegetables, eggs loads!, low carb soups and curry. Small bits of fruit, nuts, etc.

Low carb works.

I dont think you can have read my posts. Nowhere did I deny that carbs shouldnt be reduced significantly nor have I said that full fat turns into fat or that a low fat diet on it's own is a good thing or will help a person lose weight. The only issue I have and it is the issue I started this thread for is that I am not convinced that high fat is a good thing. I KNOW that the old advice was low fat low cholesterol and I had in the past also accepted that that was quite possibly wrong, however there is still a large body of evidence and experts who STILL maintain that although fat may not make you fat, it can still cause serious health issues, heart disease etc. My own doctor has this view as do many many other doctors and university research departments.
Nor am I convinced that having lots of fats trying to flush through a fatty liver, is a good thing AND I'M NOT GOING TO RISK IT AND I'M NOT GOING TO IGNORE MY DOCTOR EITHER.

And as for eggs....they are more inflammatory than bread and inflammation is for those of you who dont believe in the cholesterol paradim, inflammation leads to heart disease AND quite possibly a major cause of cancer too. You cant have it both ways, you cant say cholesterol isnt a problem and then ignore the alternative theory of cause of heart disease, inflammation.

And maybe, you guys have become the old guard, the old ideas and the world and research has moved on without your knowing it. And your all too evident resistance to a more modern approach disturbs some of your safe accepted world view of what was new 5 years ago.....cutting edge maybe you aren't, but you believe wholeheartedly you are....that's a risky strategy.

 

[Lamont D]

I dont think you can have read my posts. Nowhere did I deny that carbs shouldnt be reduced significantly nor have I said that full fat turns into fat or that a low fat diet on it's own is a good thing or will help a person lose weight. The only issue I have and it is the issue I started this thread for is that I am not convinced that high fat is a good thing. I KNOW that the old advice was low fat low cholesterol and I had in the past also accepted that that was quite possibly wrong, however there is still a large body of evidence and experts who STILL maintain that although fat may not make you fat, it can still cause serious health issues, heart disease etc. My own doctor has this view as do many many other doctors and university research departments.
Nor am I convinced that having lots of fats trying to flush through a fatty liver, is a good thing AND I'M NOT GOING TO RISK IT AND I'M NOT GOING TO IGNORE MY DOCTOR EITHER.

And as for eggs....they are more inflammatory than bread and inflammation is for those of you who dont believe in the cholesterol paradim, inflammation leads to heart disease AND quite possibly a major cause of cancer too. You cant have it both ways, you cant say cholesterol isnt a problem and then ignore the alternative theory of cause of heart disease, inflammation.

I never said high fat!
I do full fat!
It is another one of those things that I did have problems with was cholesterol.
Mine was off the charts, literal in double figures, I did the oral meds, they didn't work! Hypertension, no more. I can only tell you that your doubts are really giving you concern. I trusted my docs, for over a decade, telling me to eat all sorts of stuff that was going to kill me. It wasn't this site that got me onto low carb, it was my endocrinologist. He told me in no uncertain terms to go low carb with complex carbs, because we need them. Guess what? despite what he says, and he saved my life, I very low carb, I'm in ketosis, have been for two years.
My cholesterol is approaching perfect, my BP is perfect t, my health and well being is perfect, I just have a problem with insulin when I eat a few carbs!

As for eggs, there is studies and I've read them plus there are other threads and posts in the low carb forum, that are really good for you! Yes, they are.

I have been where you are now! Tried every diet under the sun, I just gained weight!
I'm not going to beg you, but just try going low carb for a while.
If it doesn't work, you then know.

We want to help you, understand the fears, and doctors are supposed to be trusted.

But, why do we need forums like this?
Why are there so many successful posters praising it?
Why?
Because, even against most doctors, it works!

 

[Maxfactor]

I understand your concerns. IF you have fat on your body to burn then it will make ketones for fuel and you don't need large amounts of dietary fat. Personally I need to stick to mono fats such as avocado, EVOO and a few nuts. I eat a lot of salmon for Omega 3. Grass fed beef has the same Omega 6 as regular but is much higher in 3's and usually leaner. You can eat other fish such as cod, tilapia, white fish or shrimp that are all low fat.
As far as albumin leaking I had that too at diagnosis. I took Lisinopril for about a year and albumin is perfect (kidney). Getting Vit D checked is important. I would definitely request that test as D had a lot to do with many things and tends to be low in diabetics.
Your CHO and liver may be a bit more taxed right now as you have body fat floating around and this generally levels out as weight loss stops.
You still need to eat food. I used to love fasting from dinner until lunch and no snacks with 2 sensible meals a day. I felt it gave my organs time to clear, kept BS great, lost weight and wasn't brutal on the body. I still lke small meals as they seem to clear better.
For BF I have 1/2 large avocado with celery and radish. Lunch is salmon ( I cook a bunch and freeze in serving sized bags. I like it cold on salad much better than canned) Turkey, tuna or chicken on a lettuce wrap with 1T mayo and some hot sauce. Dinner is the same but a little more protein and veg. IF I need snacks I have a few olives or pumpkin seeds. I also have a cocktail, either wine or vodka and water with dinner.
Lemon water is great for flushing kidneys ( I just add vodka haha)
I think the next thing for you is to get your Vit D checked. As soon as I got mine up over 50 lots of things got better.

Thanks Kristin. I agree with you (except the Vodka!). cheers.

 

[Maxfactor]

I never said high fat!
I do full fat!
It is another one of those things that I did have problems with was cholesterol.
Mine was off the charts, literal in double figures, I did the oral meds, they didn't work! Hypertension, no more. I can only tell you that your doubts are really giving you concern. I trusted my docs, for over a decade, telling me to eat all sorts of stuff that was going to kill me. It wasn't this site that got me onto low carb, it was my endocrinologist. He told me in no uncertain terms to go low carb with complex carbs, because we need them. Guess what? despite what he says, and he saved my life, I very low carb, I'm in ketosis, have been for two years.
My cholesterol is approaching perfect, my BP is perfect t, my health and well being is perfect, I just have a problem with insulin when I eat a few carbs!

As for eggs, there is studies and I've read them plus there are other threads and posts in the low carb forum, that are really good for you! Yes, they are.

I have been where you are now! Tried every diet under the sun, I just gained weight!
I'm not going to beg you, but just try going low carb for a while.
If it doesn't work, you then know.

We want to help you, understand the fears, and doctors are supposed to be trusted.

But, why do we need forums like this?
Why are there so many successful posters praising it?
Why?
Because, even against most doctors, it works!

Mate, really you obviously haven't read my posts....I said I lost 20kgs 3 years ago...eating very low carbs AND I have lost 10 kg over the last month EATING VERY LOW CARBS. Therefore I really dont get why you keep telling me to try it.

 

[Daibell]

I dont think you can have read my posts. Nowhere did I deny that carbs shouldnt be reduced significantly nor have I said that full fat turns into fat or that a low fat diet on it's own is a good thing or will help a person lose weight. The only issue I have and it is the issue I started this thread for is that I am not convinced that high fat is a good thing. I KNOW that the old advice was low fat low cholesterol and I had in the past also accepted that that was quite possibly wrong, however there is still a large body of evidence and experts who STILL maintain that although fat may not make you fat, it can still cause serious health issues, heart disease etc. My own doctor has this view as do many many other doctors and university research departments.
Nor am I convinced that having lots of fats trying to flush through a fatty liver, is a good thing AND I'M NOT GOING TO RISK IT AND I'M NOT GOING TO IGNORE MY DOCTOR EITHER.

And as for eggs....they are more inflammatory than bread and inflammation is for those of you who dont believe in the cholesterol paradim, inflammation leads to heart disease AND quite possibly a major cause of cancer too. You cant have it both ways, you cant say cholesterol isnt a problem and then ignore the alternative theory of cause of heart disease, inflammation.

And maybe, you guys have become the old guard, the old ideas and the world and research has moved on without your knowing it. And your all too evident resistance to a more modern approach disturbs some of your safe accepted world view of what was new 5 years ago.....cutting edge maybe you aren't, but you believe wholeheartedly you are....that's a risky strategy.

Have a read of Malcolm Kendrick's two books on diet i.e. The great Cholesterol Con and Doctoring data. He is a qualified UK GP and illustrates how misinformation is promulgated. I appreciate you want to get rid of a fatty liver and many of us would say to get yourself into ketosis whereby the body goes around burning any fat it can find. My wife went from 11st to 9st thru serious low-carbing and my son who was comfort eating went from 20St to 11st in 9 months (yes) also thru low-carbing. You have to force the body to burn it's stored fat. Note that my wife's main diet now is protein and fat and she has never felt so healthy for 40 years and similarly for my son. Neither are diabetic. BTW it's good to hear that your GP talks about cholesterol breakdown such as LDL, HDL. He will know the right ratios set by NICE and I don't think most of us would argue with the ratios - just the use of the Total figure. Low-carbing usually gets the ratios nearer to NICE targets.

 

[Kyi]

As I have made clear, I have been dieting since I was 14 years old, 36 years on and off, so I think trying to make out I have some kind of unrealistic expectation such as a miracle pill/diet is totally misplaced. And as for "abuse"....you have no idea of how or what I have eaten and what advice I have had over the decades about diet from so called professionals...nearly all 100% wrong. I'm not therefore about to just accept the armchair experts here without being sure they know what they are talking about....and of that I am not convinced. I have seen all of the ideas about food turn and turn again for decades so I'm not about to just accept that what is written by amateur doctors on a forum, is the final truth. Stony ground...no...healthily sceptical of those who set themselves up as amateur experts, yes.

I suggest you stop asking the forums for answers then since you do not want any information that you could look into. You obviously dont need help because you know all the answers. Yes your liver was abused by what I dont know but its not healthy and therefore is damaged by something you are either doing or got from your genes. You take everything everyone has put forward and decided your answer is no. Good luck with your diet because you dont want information.
Edit Actually you might want to ask a kidney and liver forum about your concerns since the diabetic form is not giving you any help that you seek. It would probably be better for you.

 

[Jaylee]

Lemon water is great for flushing kidneys ( I just add vodka haha)

Just trying to lighten the mood a little.
The voddy is great at keeping the liver buisy & cutting the glycogen dump/"dawn phenomenon"..

Just to add; Drink responsibly though!

 

[andcol]

Not to rain on your parade @Maxfactor but you have ignored the polyol pathway which causes your body to convert a large amount of glucose into fructose for storage as fat. Therefore eating carbs of any form is just going to maintain your fatty liver.

I got rid of my fat by a very low calorie diet and the internal belly fat was the first to go.

So your options are carbs which cause inflammation and fatty liver
Protein which converts to glucose and also fructose
Fat, which you can burn for energy in the absence of glucose

By the way everything is inflammatory so give up eating and only drink water and guess what, your fatty liver will disappear, eventually.

 

[Indy51]

I've taken the advice of a Hepatitis C sufferer who has reversed most of the effects of the disease to his liver by eating heaps of saturated animals fats because I trust his ability to research intelligently. His advice on diet for reversing fatty liver can be found here, along with lots of other research on LCHF:

http://hopefulgeranium.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/fatty-liver-and-its-treatment.html

Indeed, he is so respected as a "citizen researcher" that he is now employed as a research assistant by Auckland University of Technology. Not bad going for an old rock 'n roller

I've had perfect liver function tests for the past nearly 4 years since starting the LCHF way of eating after being diagnosed with fatty liver via ultrasound.

 

[Mike d]

I have seen all of the ideas about food turn and turn again for decades so I'm not about to just accept that what is written by amateur doctors on a forum, is the final truth.

Then why throw it out there if you don't happen to agree with the responses? You've had a lot of experienced people who've provided personal insights on your many comments and it would serve you well to at least pay them some respect, even if it happens to collide with your "world view". They have diabetes and other associated conditions. Can you say that about your doctors?

 

[Oldvatr]

If you dont feed on the fats you wont get the animo acid triggers from the digestion process. You can aways carry on the way you want and ignore every ones advice after all 1 Dr isnt every Dr and every person is different.

animo? presumably from animal fat? LOL very serendipid

 

[poshtotty]

Thanks for that. Where do you get your 30g of carbs from and what fats do you eat? The only fat I'm comfortable with due to the inflammation caused by most animal fats, is fish oil.

I didn't really want to join this discussion except to say that for 10 years I have had an inflammatory disease (rheumatoid arthritis) and T2, both diagnosed around the same time.

Since changing my diet to LCHF two years ago this month my RA has gone into remission and I have weaned myself off all painkillers and nasty medications. My inflammed joints have returned to their normal shape and size and an operation to replace damaged joints was cancelled because it was no longer considered necessary.

This I attribute entirely to a LCHF diet, since there have been no other changes made in my life except to my diet, which is made up of approximately 85% fat daily

 

[Oldvatr]

Congratulations to everyone who has made such helpful suggestions and given such excellent advice on this thread.

Not your fault if it is falling on stony ground.

I am keeping stumm.

 

[Oldvatr]

I've taken the advice of a Hepatitis C sufferer who has reversed most of the effects of the disease to his liver by eating heaps of saturated animals fats because I trust his ability to research intelligently. His advice on diet for reversing fatty liver can be found here, along with lots of other research on LCHF:

http://hopefulgeranium.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/fatty-liver-and-its-treatment.html

Indeed, he is so respected as a "citizen researcher" that he is now employed as a research assistant by Auckland University of Technology. Not bad going for an old rock 'n roller

I've had perfect liver function tests for the past nearly 4 years since starting the LCHF way of eating after being diagnosed with fatty liver via ultrasound.

Reductive stress is relieved by the generation of methane. And don't I know it!!!! LOL

 

[Maxfactor]

Therefore eating carbs of any form is just going to maintain your fatty liver.

So your options are carbs which cause inflammation and fatty liver
Protein which converts to glucose and also fructose
Fat, which you can burn for energy in the absence of glucose

By the way everything is inflammatory so give up eating and only drink water and guess what, your fatty liver will disappear, eventually.

I cant see that anyone apart from you has said eat NO carbs of "any form".....that would be impossible, unless you never ate any veg of any description.
No protein, eh, well that's going to work, not. But I have advocated low protein not high...guess you missed that.
And there are foods which aren't inflammatory or are mildly inflammatory (eggs aren't one of them)....take a read, educate yourself:http://inflammationfactor.com/look-up-if-ratings/
Good luck with your no carbs, no protein high fat diet.

 

[Maxfactor]

You take everything everyone has put forward and decided your answer is no.

Er.......no.
Post 46 "Thanks Kristin. I agree with you (except the Vodka!). cheers.".

 

[Kyi]

animo? presumably from animal fat? LOL very serendipid

Lol, Im dyslexic must have missed that one. Dunno how many words are misspelled today. I have caught a lot of them. Typed coarse as course. Knew it looked wrong but couldnt figure out why lol