There is a cure.. how come nobody does this?

[Brunneria]

@Jamesuk9 Yes, I mentioned your avatar pic - but not in any derogatory way, and as an indication of why I think you feel your views are justified. That isn't a personal attack. It is an explanation.

I also mentioned your age. Again, not in a derogatory way, but as an illustration.

There are many, many people on the forum who feel the way you do, but the only ones with actual experience of what I am talking about are those for whom your simplistic ideas do not fit. And most of us are female, older and fatter.

It is not derogatory to try and explain, in clear terms, why we (older fatter females) are often being told by younger, slimmer people with no experience of the issue, disagree.

 

[zand]

Then we'll have to agree to differ.... If you starve yourself you will lose weight, I know I've been there and speak from experience. It is impossible to sustain weight without nutrition.

To be honest, I'm fed up with the attitude of many here now who can't accept an opinion that differs from theirs.

Yes I agree, if I starve myself I will lose weight. Then I will die. I suppose that is a long term answer though.

 

[Jamesuk9]

@Jamesuk9 Yes, I mentioned your avatar pic - but not in any derogatory way, and as an indication of why I think you feel your views are justified. That isn't a personal attack. It is an explanation.

I also mentioned your age. Again, not in a derogatory way, but as an illustration.

There are many, many people on the forum who feel the way you do, but the only ones with actual experience of what I am talking about are those for whom your simplistic ideas do not fit. And most of us are female, older and fatter.

It is not derogatory to try and explain, in clear terms, why we (older fatter females) are often being told by younger, slimmer people with no experience of the issue, disagree.

I'm 52, not some youngster who hasn't lived.

Thanks for the clarification, sorry if I've offended anyone.

 

[Brunneria]

I'm 52, not some youngster who hasn't lived.

Thanks for the clarification, sorry if I've offended anyone.

don't worry. I wasn't offended. and I am sorry that you felt I was attacking you. That was not my intention

I just feel obligated to speak up when certain 'sound bite' ideas are reproduced on the forum.
As with everything, and every idea, there are varying people and varying bodies who do, and don't, fit the stereotypes, and the 'typical' simplistic statements can sometimes be very wrong when applied to some individuals.

 

[walnut_face]

Yes, it really is that simple. It may not work as effectively in all people but basic biology applies even if to a lesser degree.

Ultimately, over time, you will lose weight regardless and that cannot be argued with.

There is a fine line, that of course is individual to each person, finding it is the challenge.

For me, weight loss stalls if I eat twice a day, once a day and I lose quickly.

If you haven't read 'The Obesity Code' by Jason Fung, perhaps I could encourage you to do so. It explains very eloquently why it isn't 'that simple'

 

[zand]

Then we'll have to agree to differ.... If you starve yourself you will lose weight, I know I've been there and speak from experience. It is impossible to sustain weight without nutrition.

To be honest, I'm fed up with the attitude of many here now who can't accept an opinion that differs from theirs.

I can accept different opinions, but not when those opinions tell me personally how to lose weight 'easily'. Believe me I have tried it your way and that's how I know it doesn't work for everyone long term. I speak from personal experience so I know that whilst you are correct in most cases, what you say doesn't apply to everyone.

Edit: I wasn't attacking you personally, just pointing out that your experience isn't the same as mine.

 

[bulkbiker]

Then we'll have to agree to differ.... If you starve yourself you will lose weight, I know I've been there and speak from experience. It is impossible to sustain weight without nutrition.

To be honest, I'm fed up with the attitude of many here now who can't accept an opinion that differs from theirs.

It sounds like you are doing intermittent fasting rather than a calorie restricted diet which are different things although they sound similar.
By eating once a day you are effectively not eating for 23 hours a day.
By eating 3 or 4 low calorie meals a day you may be consuming the same calories but teaching your body that there is less food coming in. When most people diet they still eat often and this may impact on their BMR which slows in response to less food. When you fast your body slightly ups your BMR to spurs you to go out to get more food.
That is my understanding of some of the current thinking. Just my 2p worth.. or should that be 2d?

For purposes of transparency that way of fasting along with LCHF is what I follow.

 

[Lamont D]

Lol.. also if I'm doing alternate day fasting.. do the math.. that means one day eat 1500 the next eat 0.
That breaks down to 750 calories in 2 days..

It's easier for me to not eat at all then to eat suck a low amount everyday

No, it's not that way at all!
Depending on what you have ate and how quickly it digests, it will keep feeding you for more than two days. It is much longer before you go into starvation mode!

Intermittent fasting is a good way to reduce calories and weight loss, longer fasts are needed to get the true starvation mode.

 

[Jamesuk9]

I can accept different opinions, but not when those opinions tell me personally how to lose weight 'easily'. Believe me I have tried it your way and that's how I know it doesn't work for everyone long term. I speak from personal experience so I know that whilst you are correct in most cases, what you say deosn't apply to everyone.

Edit: I wasn't attacking you personally, just pointing out that your experience isn't the same as mine.

Yes, I accept what you're saying, my daughter is morbidly obese and cannot lose weight either.

I am also guilty of believing that diabetes only happened to people who ate all the cakes and couldn't say no.....

We live and learn, especially when I expected to be the last person to ever have BS issues because of my stereotyping in the past.

I also find that most of the dietary advise and weight loss advise for diabetes isn't applicable to me as I can ill afford to lose any more weight now.

I did however get my BMI from 25 to 20 with 2 stone loss very quickly in about 4 weeks and have maintained it.

It has also only had negligible effect on my fasting levels.

So, I still look for answers and learn.

Quit I will never do.

Sometimes things that are typed are taken literally as emotion cannot be conveyed, of course it's not applicable to all and was never meant to come across that way.

It is however highly relevant to the majority, present company excluded.

 

[Jamesuk9]

It sounds like you are doing intermittent fasting rather than a calorie restricted diet which are different things although they sound similar.
By eating once a day you are effectively not eating for 23 hours a day.
By eating 3 or 4 low calorie meals a day you may be consuming the same calories but teaching your body that there is less food coming in. When most people diet they still eat often and this may impact on their BMR which slows in response to less food. When you fast your body slightly ups your BMR to spurs you to go out to get more food.
That is my understanding of some of the current thinking. Just my 2p worth.. or should that be 2d?

For purposes of transparency that way of fasting along with LCHF is what I follow.

I'm trying all sorts in an attempt to fix myself, currently on day 3 of fasting completely with only water and coffee....

Im not sure if I'm harming myself or helping, I can but try.

 

[Freema]

Maybe it's an alternative starvation mode?
If you never feel hungry, the body doesn't realise it needs to start to burn fat.
So it starts to switch to starvation mode, you don't feel hungry, and even if you don't eat, you don't lose weight?
Maybe that's why shaking a diet up can have a dramatic affect on kickstarting weight loss again, and why I always lose weight by calorie reduction, as I can always eat, and never see starvation mode, no matter how little I eat on a diet.

some people do after a longer time of being deprived with sufficient calories, then they do get a lower metabolism in total afterwards and actually there has been studies measuring peoples hearts and brains that seems to also shrink under these circumstanses maybe for good as an adaptation to worsened life-conditions food-wise ...

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm trying all sorts in an attempt to fix myself, currently on day 3 of fasting completely with only water and coffee....

Im not sure if I'm harming myself or helping, I can but try.

I've just broken a 7 day fast.. i think you'll be ok.. seems to work fine for me. Although I have tea with lactofree milk and coffee with cream and sometimes coconut oil and butter. Helps with the mild hunger pangs I had.

 

[bulkbiker]

Yes, I accept what you're saying, my daughter is morbidly obese and cannot lose weight either.

I am also guilty of believing that diabetes only happened to people who ate all the cakes and couldn't say no.....

We live and learn, especially when I expected to be the last person to ever have BS issues because of my stereotyping in the past.

I also find that most of the dietary advise and weight loss advise for diabetes isn't applicable to me as I can ill afford to lose any more weight now.

I did however get my BMI from 25 to 20 with 2 stone loss very quickly in about 4 weeks and have maintained it.

It has also only had negligible effect on my fasting levels.

So, I still look for answers and learn.

Quit I will never do.

Sometimes things that are typed are taken literally as emotion cannot be conveyed, of course it's not applicable to all and was never meant to come across that way.

It is however highly relevant to the majority, present company excluded.

You mention your fasting levels.. they were the ones that took the longest to come down for me. Are you measuring at other times too?

 

[douglas99]

some people do after a longer time of being deprived with sufficient calories, then they do get a lower metabolism in total afterwards and actually there has been studies measuring peoples hearts and brains that seems to also shrink under these circumstanses maybe for good as an adaptation to worsened life-conditions food-wise ...

Starvation mode is real. As an adaption to life conditions, it becomes life limited.
I can quite believe heart and brains shrink, as these as the ones that the body maintains until the very end, and they go only when everything else has shut down.
I could go for months on a calorie limited diet before I would ever even approach that condition, and it would be very visible beforehand.
And I would be in the position to stop, and eat a very nutritionally balanced diet again.
But starvation tends to be more a third world problem.

 

[Freema]

Starvation mode is real. As an adaption to life conditions, it becomes life limited.
I can quite believe heart and brains shrink, as these as the ones that the body maintains until the very end, and they go only when everything else has shut down.
I could go for months on a calorie limited diet before I would ever even approach that condition, and it would be very visible beforehand.
And I would be in the position to stop, and eat a very nutritionally balanced diet again.
But starvation tends to be more a third world problem.

to some this lowering of metabolism seems to come more fast than in others ,many already show signs of lowering metabolism after 48 hours of being really low in calories , others and most do seem to have almost any diet stop working after about a year..

 

[Jamesuk9]

You mention your fasting levels.. they were the ones that took the longest to come down for me. Are you measuring at other times too?

Yes, lchf is keeping me in a tight range, no rises above 2.0 after meals so far.

Interestingly, intermittent fasting raises my level to around 6.5 fasting whereas a can be 5.0-5.4 if I eat normally.

That said, for three days of this all out fast I've been at around 6.7 but then it dropped out of nowhere to 4.8. So I just went and ran a mile to McDonald's for my lad starting at 4.8 and got home to a steady 5.3. I expected a much bigger dump to be honest.

Maybe something is finally working for me.

 

[douglas99]

Yes I agree, if I starve myself I will lose weight. Then I will die. I suppose that is a long term answer though.

Re the sentence above
Start eating between 'weight' and 'Then'?



Joking.

 

[douglas99]

But it is interesting how there are two extremes to dieting, I do know I don't hit starvation mode, even though I was an older fatter males, (now just an older male) despite being told I would, and indeed still will, despite personal experience proving the opposite.

 

[zand]

Re the sentence above
Start eating between 'weight' and 'Then'?



Joking.

lol I didn't know you cared.

 

[AndBreathe]

From my own research and fact finding other a year, may diet and exercise was focused on burning visceral fat, and reason I spent 30-60 minutes a day sweating is that visceral fat responds well to regular endurance exercises, such as running, biking, rowing, swimming, that elevate your heart rate. As your body uses fat to fuel exercise, it’ll start using up your visceral stores. If you’re able, try it.


My mother was told my a specialist her pancreas is blocked and can't produce enough insulin due to fat 20+ years ago. After seeing how I changed and my results(like today 4.7(84) 2 hours after breakfast has motivated her, and she’s now losing weight by doing a little exercise each day and cutting out rubbish foods that the NHS say are fine to eat, and for the first time in 20 years she’s lowered her hba1c, and cut her medication. Her doctor would only advice her to take more medication to treat the symptoms, and not treat the cause.

Phonic, I'm conscious we're this thread is about diet, but I recently attended a meeting where the speaker was talking about exercise and diabetes. One of the astounding things they are finding is just how successful just standing up for 5 minutes every 30 minutes in in terms of blood glucose control. As the work is unplublished, as yet, and still an ongoing study, I won't quote the figures, but in ordinarily sedentary people it is marked. There is a growing belief amongst the study group that there is a correlation between sitting for protracted periods and the formation of visceral fat.

As I say, none of this is written up, except for the researchers own documentation ( study is being conducted under strict conditions), but hopefully we'll hear more about it soon.