So frustrating.....

[Pollylocks]

.......I belong to an over fifties forum and they are discussing in the health forum the fact that anyone obese may be offered a gastric band to prevent becoming diabetic. Most of the people discussing it aren't diabetic and have no idea of problems facing those of us already diagnosed..sugar is the culprit they all seem to think....its not their fault, the carbs from bread, pasta, rice,potatoes wouldn't even occur to them as it currently doesn't affect them...

This type of operation would obviously cost thousands of pounds for each person.....it really riles me that the NHS is prepared to listen to this suggestion when they won't even prescribe test strips for many of us who have already been diagnosed as diabetic..

Your thoughts everyone...?

 

[Daibell]

I agree. If only surgeries would talk tough to those who are obese but they often duck the issue and, of course, many in the HCPs in the NHS are obese. Even if they do talk tough they give out the wrong diet advice i.e. 'cut fats and salt' rather than cutting down on all carbs.

 

[jim1951]

I think the NHS are abiding by the old adage of prevention is better than cure.

I understand the cost of the op is 5K, obviously a diabetic costs the NHS more than this over a lifetime.

I have strong views on this issue and believe that whilst some people are overweight through absolutely no fault of their own, conversely, a significant number of people have let their eating habits get them where they are and they will have the easy way out option of having an operation rather than denying themselves.

jim

 

[forty six]

I think the NHS are abiding by the old adage of prevention is better than cure.

I understand the cost of the op is 5K, obviously a diabetic costs the NHS more than this over a lifetime.

I have strong views on this issue and believe that whilst some people are overweight through absolutely no fault of their own, conversely, a significant number of people have let their eating habits get them where they are and they will have the easy way out option of having an operation rather than denying themselves.

jim

I am just short of 23 stone, I have been that weight for a long time, I don't over eat, or smoke or drink to excess. I don't drive, so walk everywhere - on average I do 6km of walking per day. Not quite 10,000 steps but not too far short of it, certainly more than the recommended 30 minutes a day. I don't like junk food as all I can taste is the salt in them and being a vegetarian for over 30 years I don't frequent most fast food outlets. I have recently been diagnosed with under active thyroid and was told that this 'was obviously the problem and that the weight would fall off'. Joke or what. I take one Metformin SR a day and my average sugars are under 7 and have been since I was diagnosed in November 2013. My liver and kidney function are perfect as is my blood pressure. I eat veg like there's no tomorrow. Today I have already had 3 types of lettuce, tomatoes, onions, sweetcorn, cucumber, carrot and radish all without any form of dressing and with lean protein. I have cut my carb intake and if I have carbs for lunch then I don't have it any other time during the day. Yes I know sweetcorn is a carb! I am not even a fan of chocolate and would rather have fruit than cake any day of the week. I also cook everything from scratch.

I was a skinny child and always had clothes that were 2 years younger than my actual age until I was 10 and had mumps so bad I ended up in a hospital isolation units for 6 weeks.

I have had enough of looks from others and tuts when I cover more than one bus seat. I have had enough of justifying myself and my life, of having people judge me when I am out in a restaurant - 'are you sure you should have that - think of all those calories', while they have pizza and chips.

So, as I get more information and help from this site than from any doctor or dietitian, who I might add have treated me like a liar for many years (one actually asked me for my 'real food diary' once) - I throw this open to you all. HOW DO I CHANGE THIS AND INCREASE MY LIFE SPAN. I don't think the op is the easy option as I have seen the end result and it is not nice. So then over to you all!

 

[yes23]

Hi guys ,I new metaform user ,but I have stop it for 6 days ,if I start it again may cause me problem pls guys if you have any idea. And I have fat in my liver . Do metaform harmd me ,because I have stomach pain and upset

 

[zand]

@forty six oh, I really feel for you. Have you had your vitamin D levels checked? Also vitamin B12? I really don't have any answers, you are doing everything I can think of already. Are you drinking enough water?...I ask this because I don't. Some folks on here swear by ketosis, saying that's the only way they manage to lose a pound or too.

Yes I know exactly what you mean about the looks and tuts from others. It is extremely upsetting when you know you are doing everything you can. I agree that having the operation isn't the answer.

I hope someone more knowledgeable than me comes along to help you. Best wishes x

 

[Etty]

....... being a vegetarian for over 30 years .............3 types of lettuce, tomatoes, onions, sweetcorn, cucumber, carrot and radish all without any form of dressing and with lean protein. .......

Like many others, you are the victim of bad nutritional advice. However much veg and fruit you eat it won't save your health. You need lots of good protein and fats.

Eat like this:
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
Try it for a few months and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Pollylocks]

Hi guys ,I new metaform user ,but I have stop it for 6 days ,if I start it again may cause me problem pls guys if you have any idea. And I have fat in my liver . Do metaform harmd me ,because I have stomach pain and upset

..hi yes...many of us can't tolerate metformin as they often cause stomach upsets and diarrhoea and have been switched to Slow Release metformin....I'm not medical and don't know about fat in the liver but perhaps you should go back to your doctor and discuss your worries..

 

[Brunneria]

@forty six

I've been bigger than your weight - I think 24-25 stone was my biggest, about 14 years ago.

I'm now approaching size 22 for the first time in 15 plus years, which is both unexpected and delightful.
I gave up dieting years ago, because they always failed.
Ironic that after wanting to lose weight for 30 years, it only starts to happen naturally, effortlessly, and very slowly, when I stop trying.

Have a look at this thread.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/you-are-all-bloomin-marvellous.61400/
Is it for everyone? Of course not. But it is certainly making me feel very happy. And full. And satisfied.

 

[forge]

I am just short of 23 stone, I have been that weight for a long time, I don't over eat, or smoke or drink to excess. I don't drive, so walk everywhere - on average I do 6km of walking per day. Not quite 10,000 steps but not too far short of it, certainly more than the recommended 30 minutes a day. I don't like junk food as all I can taste is the salt in them and being a vegetarian for over 30 years I don't frequent most fast food outlets. I have recently been diagnosed with under active thyroid and was told that this 'was obviously the problem and that the weight would fall off'. Joke or what. I take one Metformin SR a day and my average sugars are under 7 and have been since I was diagnosed in November 2013. My liver and kidney function are perfect as is my blood pressure. I eat veg like there's no tomorrow. Today I have already had 3 types of lettuce, tomatoes, onions, sweetcorn, cucumber, carrot and radish all without any form of dressing and with lean protein. I have cut my carb intake and if I have carbs for lunch then I don't have it any other time during the day. Yes I know sweetcorn is a carb! I am not even a fan of chocolate and would rather have fruit than cake any day of the week. I also cook everything from scratch.

I was a skinny child and always had clothes that were 2 years younger than my actual age until I was 10 and had mumps so bad I ended up in a hospital isolation units for 6 weeks.

I have had enough of looks from others and tuts when I cover more than one bus seat. I have had enough of justifying myself and my life, of having people judge me when I am out in a restaurant - 'are you sure you should have that - think of all those calories', while they have pizza and chips.

So, as I get more information and help from this site than from any doctor or dietitian, who I might add have treated me like a liar for many years (one actually asked me for my 'real food diary' once) - I throw this open to you all. HOW DO I CHANGE THIS AND INCREASE MY LIFE SPAN. I don't think the op is the easy option as I have seen the end result and it is not nice. So then over to you all!

Dire straits indeed.

Physics cannot be denied so there is an answer. I will see what I can find out.
The sum is
energy in - energy out = gain or lose weight depending if the answer is a plus or minus number.

Your energy in = food
Your energy out = activity energy + at rest energy (to keep us ticking over)

You can change the food and the activity and if they are minimal

then that leaves the at rest energy (metabolism)

I have never checked out raising at rest energy (metabolism) I will see what I can find.

I found this
Unless you have been living on an island or mountaintop somewhere (or simply don’t watch television), you’ve undoubtedly seen numerous infomercials talking about resting metabolic rate (RMR) and how one exercise or another will increase it, causing body fat to just melt away. Not surprisingly, there are many fallacies about how to measure RMR, how accurate those measurements are, and what particular exercises or diets will affect it. The purpose of this article is to clear up some of the confusion surrounding RMR and its energy expenditure cousins: non-exercise activity thermogenesis(NEAT) andexcess post-exercise oxygen consumption(EPOC). We’ll do a quick review of the basics of metabolism, discuss the relative accuracy of different methods and formulas for calculating RMR and cover some tricks of the trade you can use to help your clients raise their RMRs, both acutely and chronically.

It looks like you need to raise your NEAT as well as Minimise food and Max exercise.

 

[forge]

Dire straits indeed.

Physics cannot be denied so there is an answer. I will see what I can find out.
The sum is
energy in - energy out = gain or lose weight depending if the answer is a plus or minus number.

Your energy in = food
Your energy out = activity energy + at rest energy (to keep us ticking over)

You can change the food and the activity and if they are minimal

then that leaves the at rest energy (metabolism)

I have never checked out raising at rest energy (metabolism) I will see what I can find.

I found this
Unless you have been living on an island or mountaintop somewhere (or simply don’t watch television), you’ve undoubtedly seen numerous infomercials talking about resting metabolic rate (RMR) and how one exercise or another will increase it, causing body fat to just melt away. Not surprisingly, there are many fallacies about how to measure RMR, how accurate those measurements are, and what particular exercises or diets will affect it. The purpose of this article is to clear up some of the confusion surrounding RMR and its energy expenditure cousins: non-exercise activity thermogenesis(NEAT) andexcess post-exercise oxygen consumption(EPOC). We’ll do a quick review of the basics of metabolism, discuss the relative accuracy of different methods and formulas for calculating RMR and cover some tricks of the trade you can use to help your clients raise their RMRs, both acutely and chronically.

It looks like you need to raise your NEAT as well as Minimise food and Max exercise.

 

[jack412]

Hi guys ,I new metaform user ,but I have stop it for 6 days ,if I start it again may cause me problem pls guys if you have any idea. And I have fat in my liver . Do metaform harmd me ,because I have stomach pain and upset

I take metformin and if you can handle it it'd one of the safer drugs. The first couple of weeks everyone has problems.

Get the slow release and start with one tab. When any symptoms go, take 2 tabs etc
It's worth persevering, but If you still have the squirts on one tab after a month, odds are you will have to stop

Fatty liver. Do the lchf diet and metformin for insulin resistance
When I started my stomach was hard and swollen, it's now soft and spongy and I've lost 10kg

 

[forge]

Hello @forty six

Bingo this is my source and the info is on the top right of the page and you can flick through 10 ways to fix your metabolism.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-boost-your-metabolism

If I were you and I was serious about losing weight I think there is good advice in the above.

Hint page 1 needs a sex change so we can give that a miss.
Hint page 2 tells us every pound of muscle uses 3 times the energy of a pound of fat
You need to build muscle with weight training because muscle uses more energy than fat at rest
Hint page 3 tells us aerobic exercise after a workout will increase metabolism for a while so if you do the weights you should finish with aerobic exercise.
Hint page 4 Drink more water hydrated people burn more calories
Hint page 5 They suggest energy drinks with caffeine but the research I have seen is caffeine send metabolism high for a while but then it drops lower than it was before.
Hint page 6 Snack regularly - this makes sense if our bods think we are having to go a long time without food our metabolism could slow down. Of course the total food intake should not be increased.
Hint page 7 Develop a taste for hot spicy foods they lift metabolism
Hint page 8 Digesting foods uses calories too and protein uses more energy than other foods so you need to give some food the flick add protein in its place (also good for building muscle)
Hint page 9 Drink coffee in moderation to help you through your endurance work (maybe good as a reward)
Hint page 10 Drinking tea has some short term energy burning too (I think they were battling to find number 10)

It looks like dedication and effort and a hard grind and I suspect your body will oppose a change in metabolism for a while but I think it will cave in if you stick to it. I think you need a buddy/mate/partner/personal trainer to work with you so you do not quit but with a food diary and start with some makeshift weights (maybe sand in pantyhose) and then power up each week. Read up on weight training and remember you have more muscles than just arm and leg muscles to muscle up.

You need to do whatever you have to do to make it fun and rewarding. Keep your diaries and record your progress. You need to build muscle before you can get muscle energy weight loss so do not be put off by what the scales say it will all work out in the end. Muscle weighs more than fat so you might have to increase your weight with muscle before you start to lose weight.

I hope that helps

 

[forge]

Actually @forty six I remember now, my wife smashed her shoulder and the hospital gave her a rubber strip for weight muscle building because her shoulder muscles had withered after months of just sitting in a sling (they could not pin it or plaster it).

They must be available somewhere. With a bit of innovation you could get away with one of those for a while.

Yep, here are 33 exercises http://greatist.com/fitness/resistance-band-exercises

 

[chris lowe]

I unerstand they are also suggesting lowering the BMI for gastric bands to something like 30 whih means that as a size 12/14 at 70kg I would qualify for a gastric band.

 

[douglas99]

Hello @forty six

Bingo this is my source and the info is on the top right of the page and you can flick through 10 ways to fix your metabolism.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-boost-your-metabolism

If I were you and I was serious about losing weight I think there is good advice in the above.

Hint page 1 needs a sex change so we can give that a miss.
Hint page 2 tells us every pound of muscle uses 3 times the energy of a pound of fat
You need to build muscle with weight training because muscle uses more energy than fat at rest
Hint page 3 tells us aerobic exercise after a workout will increase metabolism for a while so if you do the weights you should finish with aerobic exercise.
Hint page 4 Drink more water hydrated people burn more calories
Hint page 5 They suggest energy drinks with caffeine but the research I have seen is caffeine send metabolism high for a while but then it drops lower than it was before.
Hint page 6 Snack regularly - this makes sense if our bods think we are having to go a long time without food our metabolism could slow down. Of course the total food intake should not be increased.
Hint page 7 Develop a taste for hot spicy foods they lift metabolism
Hint page 8 Digesting foods uses calories too and protein uses more energy than other foods so you need to give some food the flick add protein in its place (also good for building muscle)
Hint page 9 Drink coffee in moderation to help you through your endurance work (maybe good as a reward)
Hint page 10 Drinking tea has some short term energy burning too (I think they were battling to find number 10)

It looks like dedication and effort and a hard grind and I suspect your body will oppose a change in metabolism for a while but I think it will cave in if you stick to it. I think you need a buddy/mate/partner/personal trainer to work with you so you do not quit but with a food diary and start with some makeshift weights (maybe sand in pantyhose) and then power up each week. Read up on weight training and remember you have more muscles than just arm and leg muscles to muscle up.

You need to do whatever you have to do to make it fun and rewarding. Keep your diaries and record your progress. You need to build muscle before you can get muscle energy weight loss so do not be put off by what the scales say it will all work out in the end. Muscle weighs more than fat so you might have to increase your weight with muscle before you start to lose weight.

I hope that helps

This is all good advice.
I cut my calories down to 800 to 1200 a day, low fat, mainly salad and veg, joined the gym, and got down from 16 1/2 stone to 12, while reducing my BS and HbA1c to a normal level.

 

[Jill the tt]

.......I belong to an over fifties forum and they are discussing in the health forum the fact that anyone obese may be offered a gastric band to prevent becoming diabetic. Most of the people discussing it aren't diabetic and have no idea of problems facing those of us already diagnosed..sugar is the culprit they all seem to think....its not their fault, the carbs from bread, pasta, rice,potatoes wouldn't even occur to them as it currently doesn't affect them...

This type of operation would obviously cost thousands of pounds for each person.....it really riles me that the NHS is prepared to listen to this suggestion when they won't even prescribe test strips for many of us who have already been diagnosed as diabetic..

Your thoughts everyone...?

i saw the professor talking on tv, they also interviewed a diabetic man who had changed things with diet and exercise, the prof was asked why the need for gastric bypass, he said the way the man had done it was what they want to happen, but some people for varying reasons medical or just find it to hard, its a resort to stop things getting worse for them in the future, ie a last resort

 

[forty six]

Dire straits indeed.

Physics cannot be denied so there is an answer. I will see what I can find out.
The sum is
energy in - energy out = gain or lose weight depending if the answer is a plus or minus number.

Your energy in = food
Your energy out = activity energy + at rest energy (to keep us ticking over)

You can change the food and the activity and if they are minimal

then that leaves the at rest energy (metabolism)

I have never checked out raising at rest energy (metabolism) I will see what I can find.

I found this
Unless you have been living on an island or mountaintop somewhere (or simply don’t watch television), you’ve undoubtedly seen numerous infomercials talking about resting metabolic rate (RMR) and how one exercise or another will increase it, causing body fat to just melt away. Not surprisingly, there are many fallacies about how to measure RMR, how accurate those measurements are, and what particular exercises or diets will affect it. The purpose of this article is to clear up some of the confusion surrounding RMR and its energy expenditure cousins: non-exercise activity thermogenesis(NEAT) andexcess post-exercise oxygen consumption(EPOC). We’ll do a quick review of the basics of metabolism, discuss the relative accuracy of different methods and formulas for calculating RMR and cover some tricks of the trade you can use to help your clients raise their RMRs, both acutely and chronically.

It looks like you need to raise your NEAT as well as Minimise food and Max exercise.

Thanks for the information that energy in equals energy out!!!

This is total claptrap and has been shouted at obese people for years, it is not true and is now being proved to be not true by some of the most brilliant minds in endocrine science. Some calories do not go anywhere and are processed in different ways in the body.

For instance no one would think of giving their child whisky for breakfast but will happily give them orange juice which has the same calorific value as alcohol and is only processed by the liver as well!

I went to a funeral yesterday and spent 2 hours being told by someone who has just lost 4 stone with Slimming World:

You must have low fat products (wrong as they have more sugar)
It must be your portion sizes (wrong I have cut those virtually in half)
Are you drinking enough water (yes about 4x500ml bottles per day and a couple of cups of tea)
Maybe you are just not exercising enough (wrong 5-6 kilometres per day, which is more than her as she drives everywhere).

In the end I lost my temper and walked away, but not before I reminded her that those who lost weight with things like Slimming World and WW normally put it all back on and then some more and I looked forward to seeing her in another 3 years time.

I have actually decided that I don't care any more. I will work to keep my weight at this level and anything more is a bonus. My only thought is to maintain my sugar levels which are not bad.

Although I welcome advice, giving me the sort that explains basic science is not the way forward. I did all this at college and passed human biology, physics and chemistry. I believe my metabolism was fatally damaged when I was ill as a child and nothing will correct it. I also believe that years of being fed (if you pardon the pun) bad nutritional advice by the NHS, TV, magazines and weight loss groups has made things worse. I only hope I live long enough to hear the government apologise for the pain and humiliation obese people feel everyday, because they f*****g well should.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Are you actually having enough fat and calories?

Have you always ate salads and low carbs or has this just been recently?

 

[Brunneria]

Thanks for the information that energy in equals energy out!!!

This is total claptrap and has been shouted at obese people for years, it is not true and is now being proved to be not true by some of the most brilliant minds in endocrine science. Some calories do not go anywhere and are processed in different ways in the body.

For instance no one would think of giving their child whisky for breakfast but will happily give them orange juice which has the same calorific value as alcohol and is only processed by the liver as well!

I went to a funeral yesterday and spent 2 hours being told by someone who has just lost 4 stone with Slimming World:

You must have low fat products (wrong as they have more sugar)
It must be your portion sizes (wrong I have cut those virtually in half)
Are you drinking enough water (yes about 4x500ml bottles per day and a couple of cups of tea)
Maybe you are just not exercising enough (wrong 5-6 kilometres per day, which is more than her as she drives everywhere).

In the end I lost my temper and walked away, but not before I reminded her that those who lost weight with things like Slimming World and WW normally put it all back on and then some more and I looked forward to seeing her in another 3 years time.

I have actually decided that I don't care any more. I will work to keep my weight at this level and anything more is a bonus. My only thought is to maintain my sugar levels which are not bad.

Although I welcome advice, giving me the sort that explains basic science is not the way forward. I did all this at college and passed human biology, physics and chemistry. I believe my metabolism was fatally damaged when I was ill as a child and nothing will correct it. I also believe that years of being fed (if you pardon the pun) bad nutritional advice by the NHS, TV, magazines and weight loss groups has made things worse. I only hope I live long enough to hear the government apologise for the pain and humiliation obese people feel everyday, because they f*****g well should.

We could be twins.

Great rant, by the way.

I think I would have ripped MS Slimming World's throat out within the first 15 mins. I am amazed by your tolerance and self control.