One year on from more fat

[donnellysdogs]

It was only early last year when I realised that I was a low carber or my life as I had thought I was just a moderate eater. I had previously put down chronic pains in my legs and hips due to statins and had tried every statin all with same pains that would start again.

So, when analysing My foods I realised that the majority of my fat only came from my copious coffees with semi skimmed milk.

I added more fat in to our diet and my hubby cut his carbs. I initially lost 10lb that I didn't need to lose and my hubby has lost 3stone last year with a stone previous year by just doing more exercise.

First 6 months my cholesterol stayed the same. Hubbys went down. Including the breakdown of all- everything was improved for hubby. Mine, no different.

One year on both our cholesterols have shot up. Now I haven't got a clue what to do.

For the last year we ate more eggs..we had more fish (i never ate fish before), we had cheese (not everyday but between 5-7 thin slices if we wanted to) and a creamy coffee every night and full fat milk and coconut oil.
Our dinners are always salad or veg and rarely puddings. We don't eat potatoes, pasta or rice. We don't have bread..(me never)

I thought hubbys had raised last week when he got his results back because he'd had a few sandwichs at work from mid Dec til now.

Then yesterday I got my results. They stupidly only tested total and triglicerides on mine. My trig results gone from 0.4 to 0.9 though.. And my total gone from 5.1 right up to 6.5. I have never had any readings in the 6's ever....

My leg pains have gone and my body myscle tone especially my legs are brilliant. I'm size 8/10 and hubby is a waist 32 and 12 1/2 stone max.
He was also taking my statins that I couldn't take.

His levels are now chronic...wheras before he came just in the normal range with breakdown of the cholesterols. His trigs have gone up, his ldl and hdl both gone in the wrong direction.

Any thoughts please as now I just do not know what to do besides ditching the fat...(we never did low fat anyway) just had butter and semiskimmed milk.

After hubbies weightloss I really don't want him putting weight back on from feeling hungry..and going back to his horrible weight. The extra fat does seem to have contributed thought to both of us getting hugely increased bad cholesterol..

Are we both just unlucky that we both can't tolerate more fat? It just seems that its odd.

Any advice welcome...

 

[azure]

Sorry - no answer for you, but this is something that worries me about low carbing so I'll be very interested in the responses.

I do know that cholesterol often increases with age, and that it's important to have a complete lipid profile as it's the ratios that are important. I remember I had to especially request that my surgery did the whole profile and gave me the ratios.

I hope you get some answers soon.

 

[Brunneria]

Do you have the actual breakdowns? And ratios?

I'm no expert, but Trigs under 1.0 is still a very good reading (and the only one that I personally am concerned with). I believe 1 or less means your liver isn't fatty - and for a longterm diabetic that is a fantastic result.

My cholesterol info has all come from this forum, the books in my sig and bloodsugar101. From memory, it is my understanding that there is precious little evidence that below average cholesterol has a protective effect (5.4 is average, I think) and for women, there is evidence that slightly higher cholesterol is protective as age increases. (Something about mortality from all causes decreases with a higher total cholesterol).

I'm probably due another test in the next few months, at which time I will read up on it all again.
But at the moment, I take the attitude that the many and varied benefits that I get from LCHF far outweigh the unclear, speculative and hotly debated perils of a slightly raised cholesterol.

(The benefits I get from LCHF include better skin, sleep, comfortable muscles, less pain in hands, knees and joints, gentle weight loss, lowered bp, ketosis with mental clarity, no brain fog, better stamina, improved night vision... I can't actually claim that every one of those is from LCHF and ketosis, but I can say that they have all started/improved since I went very LC and upped my fats proportionally.)

 

[tim2000s]

I'm afraid I can't really provide any advice, but it does raise a new perspective on the higher fat content of the LCHF diet.

Are you aware of what the types of fat are that you are eating (Poly, mono, saturated) and could you change this mix?

 

[donnellysdogs]

Do you have the actual breakdowns? And ratios?

I'm no expert, but Trigs under 1.0 is still a very good reading (and the only one that I personally am concerned with). I believe 1 or less means your liver isn't fatty - and for a longterm diabetic that is a fantastic result.

My cholesterol info has all come from this forum, the books in my sig and bloodsugar101. From memory, it is my understanding that there is precious little evidence that below average cholesterol has a protective effect (5.4 is average, I think) and for women, there is evidence that slightly higher cholesterol is protective as age increases. (Something about mortality from all causes decreases with a higher total cholesterol).

I'm probably due another test in the next few months, at which time I will read up on it all again.
But at the moment, I take the attitude that the many and varied benefits that I get from LCHF far outweigh the unclear, speculative and hotly debated perils of a slightly raised cholesterol.

(The benefits I get from LCHF include better skin, sleep, comfortable muscles, less pain in hands, knees and joints, gentle weight loss, lowered bp, ketosis with mental clarity, no brain fog, better stamina, improved night vision... I can't actually claim that every one of those is from LCHF and ketosis, but I can say that they have all started/improved since I went very LC and upped my fats proportionally.)

I have my hubbys break down..
In July he was: (no statins)
5.7
Serum trigs: 0.9
HDL: 1.1
LDL 3.9

Now: (with my old statins):
Total 6.5
Serum Trigs: 1.4
hdl 1.2
Ldl 4.7

Ldl has worsened. Hdl hasn't improved significantly, his trigs have worsened and his total with statins is even worse.

So what would he have been like without the statins?

The most significant change since July has been cream and cheese but even with the cheese it hasn't been daily.. Probably every other day.

He's not diabetic. Having seen his go completely in the wrong direction I also fear having seen my trigs and total doing the same that my hdl and ldl will have done the same too.

It is really causing me confusion as my carb value of average 50 a day has also been the same constantly. I've only changed this once in my lifetime and thats when I was advised to eat porridge or toast for breakfast... Which I stopped about 3 years ago.

I am worried.. I can't take statins.. So I have to find a diet to lower these levels back down.

Fat has definitely improved my brain too...

 

[Bluetit1802]

Was this a fasting test?

If not, then what and when you last ate will have impacted on your trigs figure. This is a scientific fact.

I don't think you can judge your total figure without the breakdown. If you are really concerned I would ask for another test, including breakdown, and fast for it (even if doctor says this isn't necessary)

These are my husbands's trig figures over a couple of years. He is on statins but eats what he likes, defo not low carb and lower fat than I have. (he still insists on low fat spreads etc)

Random trigs 2.19
Fasting trigs 0.62
random trigs 2.11
fasting trigs 1.18

These are mine on LCHF

Random 2.01 January 2014
Fasting 1.25 January 2014
Random 1.15 March 2014
Fasting 0.72 June 2014
Fasting 0.6 Sept 2014
Fasting 0.58 Dec 2014

 

[donnellysdogs]

Was fasting tests for both of us..

@Bluetit1802 do you have cream daily?

 

[Paul59]

Cholesterol blood levels
The following levels are generally regarded as desirable:

Total cholesterol (TChol) - 5.0 mmol/L or less. However, about 2 in 3 adults in the UK have a TChol level of 5.0 mmol/L or above.
LDL cholesterol after an overnight fast: 3.0 mmol/L or less.
HDL cholesterol: 1.2 mmol/L or more.
TChol/HDL ratio: 4.5 or less. That is, your TChol divided by your HDL cholesterol. This reflects the fact that for any given TChol level, the more HDL, the better.

Taken from
http://www.patient.co.uk/health/cholesterol

A lot may depend on the amount & sort of fats we increase.
It's all about finding the right balance.
Too much of anything is bad for us.
Protien is also a source of our energy when we lower carb intake not just fat.
Dr Trudi Deakins book explains a lot on balance & is back by research.
Available here.
http://www.xperthealth.org.uk/shop/details/p/handbook-lowcarb-highfat-lifestyle

 

[Bluetit1802]

Was fasting tests for both of us..

@Bluetit1802 do you have cream daily?

As you may remember, I am struggling to keep my weight up, so I have been eating 2 tablespoons of double cream every day, over 60g cheese most days, butter, a FF yogurt every day, 4 fry ups a week with bacon, sausage, eggs etc. 2 eggs a day, far more mayo than I should, 4 small tins of salmon a week, red meat, cod and haddock.

 

[donnellysdogs]

As you may remember, I am struggling to keep my weight up, so I have been eating 2 tablespoons of double cream every day, over 60g cheese most days, butter, a FF yogurt every day, 4 fry ups a week with bacon, sausage, eggs etc. 2 eggs a day, far more mayo than I should, 4 small tins of salmon a week, red meat, cod and haddock.

Wish I'd been eating that much fat!!

Introduced salmon and cod, haddock and pollock. I hated fish!!
Oh yes mayo too...

I just am totally stuck now.. For both of us. I can't have statins.. Feeling really down about this.. Don't know whether to go back to just having butter and semiskimmed milk like we used to but keep the fish. Red meat as well we went to non lean versions but only have this once a week.

Really, really stumped and fed up!!!

 

[Brunneria]

So, um...
How to put this?

Has he been eating additional carbs?
Maybe stuff for snacks and lunch when he's out and about, and out of your sight?

The reason I ask is that LCHF only works if we stay off the carbs. Consistently. Persistently.
And stay under our personal carb limit.

Adding in fats AND carbs (particularly snacky type carbs that probably contain nasty fats) is a potential sabotage for all the good work.

I hated writing that, by the way.
All my life well meaning Do Gooders have accused me of not dieting properly and then smiled little smiles of superior disbelief when I state that 'yes, I have been sticking to the xxxxx diet of choice'.
It always makes me want to slow roast them over an open fire and then eat them with mayonnaise.

So, please understand, that was a non accusatory inquiry!

 

[donnellysdogs]

@Brunneria he added in a sandwich 3 days a week.. From mid/late Dec onward But he made sure those days we had salmon and salad or chicken and veg..

Inhonestly believe him as his weight continues to fall off... He's never been a 32" waist and still losing!!

His haven't shot up so high propotionally as mine (admittefly I don't know the ldl or hdl-twits!!) but I really suspect mine have gone in wrong direction as well because for years and years my trigs have always been 0.6 or below. Never above.

Not taken wrong way, as I would be asking exactly the same if it was someone else asking these questions-lol We actually thought the same that it was because of the sandwichs before my results came in... As I never veer to any carby snacks or food inbetween etc we thought mine were going to be better.

We are both absolutely gobsmacked. Tried to write our shopping list last night and got nowhere as we just do not know what to eat now....

 

[donnellysdogs]

Hubby used to have flapjacks, crisps and chocolate and anything he wanted before whilst I never have. Now his levels are worse than when he ate all the **** AND he has taken the statins I couldn't and he has lost so much weight that is meant to also lower cholesterol. He's now well under the fat waistline that is meant to give you more risk factors...

So you can imagine how he is now feeling... Like me absolutely cheesed off!!

 

[donnellysdogs]

Whatbwould other people do in our situation?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Whatbwould other people do in our situation?

I would ask for another test to be honest, and make sure you get a full one.

Do you track your carbs and fats and proteins? What are you eating in grams?

 

[phoenix]

I agree with Tim about looking at the type of fats you are eating. I don't agree with those who suggest that saturated fats don't raise LDL.There is a lot of evidence that they do, especially in those who are genetically predisposed to do so.

There aren't simple answers; except perhaps changing fat sources and making sure that you have a good fibre intake. The Med diet isn't low fat but it isn't immensely high either (about 40%) and most of the fats come from olive oil and other plant sources, together with small amounts of cheese and meat (not milk and cream , many more people in these areas are lactose intolerant and can only eat small amounts in a fermented state)

I've been trying to write a blog post on this for a week or so. I might get it finished one day. It's a subject that keeps coming up and it's not something you can write about in a few words

Here's something about one gene and how it and diet interact to effect cholesterol levels.(and that is just one gene, albeit one we know quite a lot about)
http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/GND-High-Cholesterol-APOE.php

I've also com eacross this, from Dr Dayspring a fairly eminent lipidologist . He is commenting on a low carbing dietitian's blog . She had written about the rise in cholesterol that she had seen on a low carb ketogenic diet
Sorry, It isn't easy to read and took me a long time to get through I'm sure that he is trying to explain in simple words but he doesn't always succeed. I also know that most of us will not have access to all the different tests mentioned so some of it isn't relevant.There is though quite a lot about the significance of the results that we do have access to.
Lipid Changes on a Very-Low-Carb Ketogenic Diet: My Own Experience
Authors:
Franziska Spritzler, RD, CDE
Thomas Dayspring, MD, FACP, FNLA
http://www.lecturepad.org/pdf/Lipid_Changes_on_a_VLCKD_Blog_Post.pdf
To read it , its a well to have a converter handy since cholesterol and trigs are recorded in mg/dl and there is a different conversion factor for each.
At one point Franziska writes of her levels rising to
'a total cholesterol of 300 mg/dl (7.75mmol/l)' and later to 336mg/dl (8.6 mmol/l)
Over 10 months her total and LDL cholesterol both increased by 100mg/dl ie 2.6 mmol/l
http://www.onlineconversion.com/cholesterol.htm
also don't try putting your values into the formula he gives.You would have to convert them to mg/dl first.
.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I would ask for another test to be honest, and make sure you get a full one.

Do you track your carbs and fats and proteins? What are you eating in grams?

Carbs anywhere from 12 to 60 at max.
Fats and protein no. 5-6 thin slices brie at max every other day, chicken once a week, eggs about 5 a week, quiche twice a week (they are my max carb days), sausages x3 heck ones 95% once a week, salmon or other white fish. Mayonaise x 2 tablespoon 4/5days a week on salad.
About a pint of full fat milk and a coffee with cream. Red meatblike fillet steak once a week.
Always salad or veg.
Puddings are unbelievably rare. Even dark chocolate for me is not a natural everyday occurence. I tried to but I just never want to eat so jt doesn't really appeal.
7 Walnuts everyday and flaxseed and chia a large teaspoon of each.

We had no cake or anything at all christmassy...one box of chocs still unopened. No xmas pud. Nothing. We just didn't fancy it.

I'll add it into my fitness pal tonight.

They won't do another test for 6 months....

That amount of fat and protein has only been added in this year. Before I never had fish, mayo, cream or cheese and eggs were about 6 a month...

 

[donnellysdogs]

Will look more at the med diet.. Thanks @phoenix..

 

[Bluetit1802]

I don't know what to suggest other than as much omega 3 as you can - tinned salmon, cold pressed rapeseed oil, more flaxseed (I have 20g a day, which is 2 heaped tablespoons) etc.

Your trigs are still great and I wouldn't be worrying about those at all. Your total is higher than desirable, but you don't know if this is due to higher HDL or higher LDL. It's all very much up in the air for you, and you can't even calculate those all important ratios.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Take one a day cod liver oil tablets daily too!!
The odd thing too is that now mt total white cell count is off the scale high too and the MPV and neutrophil. They were always high normal but now OTT too. Roll on August for my next 6 month test.

GP is phoning hubby tonight ref his cholesterol. Think my consultant is just going to be mad at me...she know I increased my fat and told me to be sensible!!!!

Actually just noticed on hubbys form it gives details of the fasting freideald equation on his form, but on mine it doesn't so perhaps they used a non fasting random test on me??? Could that be possible?? Even though I did fast?

Still doesn't equate for the rises though!!