One year on from more fat

[Bluetit1802]

Hello All - long time lurker, avid reader but very infrequent poster here! May I add a comment to the mix? Only recently, I've been doing a bit more reading about Cholesterol - particularly the breakdown of results of tests - and I've read in various places (online diabetes blogs - by educated laypersons and medical people) that following a low carb diet will not only improve (for most people) LDL results BUT it will also change the size of the LDL particles - from very low density to high density. So it is possible that a seemingly "high" LDL result may in fact be less disappointing than at first thought if the particle sizes are more big and fluffy than not. Thankfully these days we're more likely to be given a breakdown of our Cholesterol tests, but looks like we need to be going one step further and having the LDL part analysed/investigated also. Just a thought. Good luck Donnellysdogs with finding the answer to your conundrum. It's horrid when you're trying to do everything "right" for your health but then some test result appears to throw a spanner in the works.

Totally agree. The lower the trigs the bigger and fluffier the LDL particle sizes, which is good. The higher the trigs the smaller and harder the LDL particles are, which is not so good. Your trigs are still excellent

 

[donnellysdogs]

Hi @iHs

The benefits of low carb are great on bg's.

Hubby has lost tremendous weight too. I did when initially adding fat in and I wasn't wanting to. So opposite to you. I actually eat very little and probably not enough for the work I do but my size has remained 8/10. Hubby now has a small belt... What a pain looking for belts that are small!!!

Did all your cholesterol factors get worse? Even marginally?

Just trying now to look at the old med food plan shopping list to see if I can get better fats for us...as fat definitely helped my leg and hip pain.

Think I'm going to have to change my taste buds to liking avocado. Done it with fish...

**** balancing act isn't it??

 

[donnellysdogs]

Totally agree. The lower the trigs the bigger and fluffier the LDL particle sizes, which is good. The higher the trigs the smaller and harder the LDL particles are, which is not so good. Your trigs are still excellent

I know trigs are still good but they aren't so good as previously. In fact doubled my lower readings for last five years since I really started looking at them. (Must be an age thing!!))

Still bothers me that they gone up and it impossible for me not to be concerned... Despite being good...

Bought trudi's book. For some reason on ipad or iphone ut wouldn't let me order!! But phoned them up. Also phoned and got a vit d test on the way to me.

So now going to spend rest of day trying to plan foods to buy

 

[Wurst]

I'm in the same boat , I low carbed for 3 years and have problems with LDL being elevated. HDL and Trigs were superb. People state this is normal for a low carb diet , i.e. it will be a increase in the light fluffy particles not the hard small particles of LDL. As my doctor won't do a specific test on LDL particles I do not want to leave anything change and agreed to go on Statins and dispense with the High fat diet.

I only take the lowest dose of statins 10 mg but have added a number of supplements to my diet such artichoke extract and hearts , margarine fortified with stanols/sterols, benecol yogurt and a massive increase in fiber intake. 2 months to go and I'll find out if its worked.

 

[donnellysdogs]

DD @AndBreathe and I seem to be in accord. I really don't think you should panic yourself into doing anything drastic without a proper cholesterol/lipid breakdown. You need all the information. As they didn't do this for you, I'm sure they would give you another test rather than make you wait 6 months.

My GP wouldn't even do any tests as it was for my hospital appointment. They are following guidelines strictly and to the letter. If a consultant wants blood tests done then they have to complete the form. Haven't got a hope in hell of getting one from GP despite them being copied in. My annual tests due in August. My appt with consultant should have been January but due to MK hospital constantly always missing me off their lists I'm not getting my appt till May. My consultant sent me a form in January so I could get my tests done. So I do stand a chance that I could ask for another one pre Mays appointment. I'll ask consultant...

 

[jack412]

Thanks @jack412 last info... We do have olive oil extra virgin that gets dribbled on salads. I saw old med diets on net and wondered what the difference was..

remember it's a peasant seasonal diet... google prewar <1940 pictures in italy..they looked skinny and half starved by todays standards
fats from 40-60%
carbs from 30-40%
protein from 10-20%

 

[andcol]

If he is losing weight then the fat cells shrink and any stored cholesterol will be ejected into the blood stream to be mopped up by the gaul bladder. This could be the answer why

 

[AndBreathe]

I'm in the same boat , I low carbed for 3 years and have problems with LDL being elevated. HDL and Trigs were superb. People state this is normal for a low carb diet , i.e. it will be a increase in the light fluffy particles not the hard small particles of LDL. As my doctor won't do a specific test on LDL particles I do not want to leave anything change and agreed to go on Statins and dispense with the High fat diet.

I only take the lowest dose of statins 10 mg but have added a number of supplements to my diet such artichoke extract and hearts , margarine fortified with stanols/sterols, benecol yogurt and a massive increase in fiber intake. 2 months to go and I'll find out if its worked.

Wurst - I completely respect your choice to take statins, but please be mindful they are prone to reduce all of your cholesterol levels - including the "good" stuff.

@donnellysdogs - let me know if you find any decent scientific papers where study participants included a significant number of female participants. I can only find the odd, sketchy paper. Allegedly, this is due to CVD being "mainly a male issue", which we can probably agree is flawed in itself.

DD - I'd suggest you have another test before making any changes, especially as the festive period is in the midst of your current results, and don't you guys relax a bit on diet over December?

If your GP won't shell out for tests and you feel significantly uncomfortable, you could have them done privately, in a month or two, for your own peace of mind?

 

[Paul59]

@donnellydogs
I noticed in an earlier you mentioned your OH's exercise in a week. What quantity of calories does he eat to keep energy levels up for that amount of exercise? It's just a thought but may be the intake is not enough then there may be an opposite effect on other things as the calories & other things are being used to keep energy up & nothing else. If you get my drift.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Wurst - I completely respect your choice to take statins, but please be mindful they are prone to reduce all of your cholesterol levels - including the "good" stuff.

@donnellysdogs - let me know if you find any decent scientific papers where study participants included a significant number of female participants. I can only find the odd, sketchy paper. Allegedly, this is due to CVD being "mainly a male issue", which we can probably agree is flawed in itself.

DD - I'd suggest you have another test before making any changes, especially as the festive period is in the midst of your current results, and don't you guys relax a bit on diet over December?

If your GP won't shell out for tests and you feel significantly uncomfortable, you could have them done privately, in a month or two, for your own peace of mind?

Not relaxed at all at Christmas.. Just had chicken stuffed with stilton cheese and bacon wrapped with all veg.. No pud. Actually though we did have 7 ritz biscuits with cheese...they were our full countable carbs for the day though, as the rest just came from the veg...neither of us wanted extra. I didn't even look at Christmas stuff in shops... Sounds bah humbug but honest we just didn't want it, could have done but nope.. We enjoyed our big heaped plate of chicken and veg and that was it...

I should be able to email my consultant late April and ask her to send me more tests.. If not We'll go "med" now and pay for both of us to have redone in Early May. At least that will be 9 full weeks of eating "med style"....

 

[donnellysdogs]

@donnellydogs
I noticed in an earlier you mentioned your OH's exercise in a week. What quantity of calories does he eat to keep energy levels up for that amount of exercise? It's just a thought but may be the intake is not enough then there may be an opposite effect on other things as the calories & other things are being used to keep energy up & nothing else. If you get my drift.

Will MFP tonight to check his calories. We used to do it pre Christmas daily and he was ok... However then I got a free pedometer and he decided last week to wear it at work, so his 18,000 steps at work were never factored in.

We're going out for a meal and with friends all day (shades of grey as well!) tomorrow so will start again from Sunday with MFP and include his walking.

Aaaaaggggghhhhh!!! It's like starting out all over again!!!!

 

[AndBreathe]

Not relaxed at all at Christmas.. Just had chicken stuffed with stilton cheese and bacon wrapped with all veg.. No pud. Actually though we did have 7 ritz biscuits with cheese...they were our full countable carbs for the day though, as the rest just came from the veg...neither of us wanted extra. I didn't even look at Christmas stuff in shops... Sounds bah humbug but honest we just didn't want it, could have done but nope.. We enjoyed our big heaped plate of chicken and veg and that was it...

I should be able to email my consultant late April and ask her to send me more tests.. If not We'll go "med" now and pay for both of us to have redone in Early May. At least that will be 9 full weeks of eating "med style"....

So, if you don't have all the data now, make dietary changes, then collect more data in a couple of months how will you know what has influenced any changed scores you see?

Call me a data monster, but right now, I see a semi-sighted, knee jerk reaction to a potential problem to achieve potentially even more bewildering results.

It's obviously your call.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I see your point but even if I can see my total going back down to under 5.0 and my trigs back to 0.6 or under it will be returning in the right direction. Even without my full breakdown now I know what I've been for the past 5 years as I always get my printouts. Not exact science I know.

We're going to go back to semiskimmed milk, cut the cream, cut the cheese and try to get our taste buds adapted to olives and avocado's and couscous I think to replace some calories and chickpea/beans/lentils. Already have walnuts, flax and chia...and berries...hubby going to try 0% fat greek yogurt with his berries or something with oatmeal.

Well, at least thats my first thoughts, still googling and trying to find some recipes!!

Its easy to do MFP as got the food saved from previous. So will just update on Sunday for last week to see how much saturated etc we had each day. I need now to recalculate for the new foods.. So have got starter points. Hubby has full starter point but I know 5 year previous readings so its just getting them back, no matter what they are now if you see what I mean....

 

[AndBreathe]

I see your point but even if I can see my total going back down to under 5.0 and my trigs back to 0.6 or under it will be returning in the right direction. Even without my full breakdown now I know what I've been for the past 5 years as I always get my printouts. Not exact science I know.

We're going to go back to semiskimmed milk, cut the cream, cut the cheese and try to get our taste buds adapted to olives and avocado's and couscous I think to replace some calories and chickpea/beans/lentils. Already have walnuts, flax and chia...and berries...hubby going to try 0% fat greek yogurt with his berries or something with oatmeal.

Well, at least thats my first thoughts, still googling and trying to find some recipes!!

Its easy to do MFP as got the food saved from previous. So will just update on Sunday for last week to see how much saturated etc we had each day. I need now to recalculate for the new foods.. So have got starter points. Hubby has full starter point but I know 5 year previous readings so its just getting them back, no matter what they are now if you see what I mean....

How will you know any reduction in total is not a reduction in "good"?

And of course you are assuming a reduction at all......

(Devil's Advocate at your service .......)

 

[donnellysdogs]

How will you know any reduction in total is not a reduction in "good"?

And of course you are assuming a reduction at all......

(Devil's Advocate at your service .......)

Well if they all go down and return to the good levels I had before then I'll be happy.. Thats all I can go on... At end of day I am basing it a bit on the reactions hubby has had but to go to 6.5 isn't good with my trigs doubling as well..at least not to me... I just want to see them back as they were..even just the two figures I do have....

 

[iHs]

Unfortunately, I havent got a copy of my latest blood tests but my LDL cholesterol has risen a bit and so have my trigs. Usually, my trigs are below 0.30 so not at all high but I think they have risen to 0.50. My overall cholesterol has risen from 4.6 to 5.5
but so has my bodyweight and my basal need has also increased although will drop once I lose more weight

 

[donnellysdogs]

Well, GP just phoned for hubbies cholesterol. Going to give him a thyroid test and hba1c and also 40mg of atoravastatin.

GP delighted hubby going to a med diet!!! (Despite still struggling with recipes!!- ).

 

[noblehead]

Unfortunately, I havent got a copy of my latest blood tests but my LDL cholesterol has risen a bit and so have my trigs. Usually, my trigs are below 0.30 so not at all high but I think they have risen to 0.50. My overall cholesterol has risen from 4.6 to 5.5
but so has my bodyweight and my basal need has also increased although will drop once I lose more weight

0.5 is very good, that's what my trigs were at my last blood tests and the Endo said it was an excellent result.

 

[AndBreathe]

Well if they all go down and return to the good levels I had before then I'll be happy.. Thats all I can go on... At end of day I am basing it a bit on the reactions hubby has had but to go to 6.5 isn't good with my trigs doubling as well..at least not to me... I just want to see them back as they were..even just the two figures I do have....

OK. My last comments on this.

It seems like you're chasing a number to tick a box, without fully understanding your starting position.

As I understand it, triglyceride levels moderate, or otherwise relating mainly to carbs. That's one of the reasons why those who low carb see improvements; particularly to trigs.

Could you, by virtue of the modest carbs in the fatty foods you are consuming have actually increased your carb intake, as well as fat?

Surely at the very least you need to fully review your current diet in MFP, to ensure there has been no material carb creep or the like?

As you can tell, changing diet in your current circumstances makes no sense to me.

If you are looking to be the consultant's shining light, perfectly controlled diabetic, then good luck with that. If you are looking to achieve an informed, knowledgeable shift in your lipid levels, you don't have the starting data against which to accurately measure change.

Good luck with it.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Unfortunately, I havent got a copy of my latest blood tests but my LDL cholesterol has risen a bit and so have my trigs. Usually, my trigs are below 0.30 so not at all high but I think they have risen to 0.50. My overall cholesterol has risen from 4.6 to 5.5
but so has my bodyweight and my basal need has also increased although will drop once I lose more weight

Did you wonder about this being related to higher fat?

I used to think of myself as a moderate eater.. Before realising that I am actually a small eater with ansolutely no desire for food.So trying to find another revised eating is really hard. I am struggling..

Glad your readings didn't jump quite so hugely as my two (not four )