Carbs message slowly filtering through

[JohnEGreen]

Define mechanism?

A system of parts working together in a machine; a piece of machinery.or

A natural or established process by which something takes place or is brought about.

 

[DaftThoughts]

Really? It's the way in which something operates.

I wasn't sure of the context, hence my question. Also English is my 4th language, so please be considerate.

Scientists still don't have the answer to what causes T2D (or even T1/other forms of diabetes for that matter) so I hardly feel qualified to answer that. I do know that excess carb consumption alone doesn't cause it, otherwise my 6'0" tall 130lbs younger sister would be T2 diabetic already - the things she's eaten throughout the years is astounding and qualifies as an extremely high carb diet. (And no, she's not diabetic, she's been tested often.) If excess carb consumption alone would be the cause of T2D, we'd have a lot more diabetics than we already do in the world as well. We'd also be seeing a dramatic increase in vegans who become diabetics who follow an extremely high carb, low fat diet, but they are generally healthier than those who eat less carbs.

Again, individual needs differ per person - that's why they're called individual needs, and why one diet won't work for everyone.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

LCHF

Know what you mean. The right thing for some, but not for all. LC?F maybe?

In connection with lower carbs, something that has suited me for 3 - 4 years although last HbA1c a bit off the mark. Although I'm now only on Metformin my BG sank to 3.4 after a lunch of Mediterranean Vegetables and Chicken. I resorted to a Nature Valley Health bar and a fudge yoghurt to get back to 6.
Conclusion? I had better be very careful when cutting carbs, only been doing it for 3 years. LOL

 

[BrianTheElder]

I wasn't sure of the context, hence my question. Also English is my 4th language, so please be considerate.

Scientists still don't have the answer to what causes T2D (or even T1/other forms of diabetes for that matter) so I hardly feel qualified to answer that. I do know that excess carb consumption alone doesn't cause it, otherwise my 6'0" tall 130lbs younger sister would be T2 diabetic already - the things she's eaten throughout the years is astounding and qualifies as an extremely high carb diet. (And no, she's not diabetic, she's been tested often.) If excess carb consumption alone would be the cause of T2D, we'd have a lot more diabetics than we already do in the world as well. We'd also be seeing a dramatic increase in vegans who become diabetics who follow an extremely high carb, low fat diet, but they are generally healthier than those who eat less carbs.

Again, individual needs differ per person - that's why they're called individual needs, and why one diet won't work for everyone.

I'm sorry if you think I was being rude. Your English is excellent by the way.

 

[daisyduck]

Have to rename this website LCHF.co.uk soon, it's becoming much more about that than diabetes topics in recent months.

I didn't even mention LCHF ??

 

[Scott-C]

Also English is my 4th language, so please be considerate.

Wow, that's impressive! All your posts are very fluent, I would never have guessed it wasn't your first language. Bit off topic but what are the other three? English is my first language but I can barely speak it after three beers. I recall being in a bar in a backpackers hostel in Tirana with people from six nations, three continents, and felt slightly ashamed they could all speak my language but I couldn't hazard a guess at theirs.

 

[Mbaker]

We do all react differently to different carbs. My view is similar to @BrianTheElder that mainstream carbs are not good for diabetics and non diabetics. I base this generalisation on the high levels of insulin resistance in the general population, the ever increasing insulin response required to deliver normal blood sugar's in non diabetics, the blood sugar spikes outside of the prescribed ranges of non-diabetics such as the chap who runs diet doctor when eating high carb.

I keep an open mind, but I am sold on the rationale that carbs raise blood sugars significantly more than protein and fat. Fast acting carbs metabolise so fast (some on your tongue), the energy has a great chance of going to fat cells. Carbs are directly linked to high triglycerides. Carbs fuel cancer cells and well as increasing hunger. Of interest to me are the amount of high performance athletes from cycling, basketball, rugby body building / modeling who are lower carbing. Carb staples such as pasta, bread and rice I believe are some of the pillars of the obesity crisis. I respect others views, these are mine based on persons such as Dr's Unwin, Fung, Halberg, Noakes, Berg, Phinney, 2 years of obsessive googling, YouTube, Netflix, what many diets do (carb reduction), my own experience, my wife's experience of dropping 3 kg by just dropping the usual suspect carbs.

 

[Scott-C]

I was referring to the guy recommending buckwheat flour as low carb, it isn't. And although you don't spike with it, I definitely wouldn't recommend it to all and sundry.

I don't expect any degree of accuracy from working hacks who are putting out articles to dead lines, so I'll cut the boy a bit of slack over his confusion about low carbs.

Still, my point remains, and some of the points made on this thread emphasises it, that some of us regard carbs as the spawn of the devil whereas others are fine with with them.

I think it's it's wrong to write something off just because the carb percentage is above a certain level. Sure, buckwheat is high but the low GI makes a difference, and the chiro-inositol aspect is fascinating.

I'm not recommending it to anyone, just pointing out that it seems to work for me: people can do their own experiments.

My general take on the subject is that the brain chooses glucose as it's fuel and for that matter, pretty much every other cell does too, so it seems insane to suggest that carbs should play no part in all this.Sure, moderate them to avoid spikes, but like I've seen on this site, people feeling guilty about eating a Jacobs cream cracker, loosen up a bit.

 

[Brunneria]

I don't expect any degree of accuracy from working hacks who are putting out articles to dead lines, so I'll cut the boy a bit of slack over his confusion about low carbs.

Still, my point remains, and some of the points made on this thread emphasises it, that some of us regard carbs as the spawn of the devil whereas others are fine with with them.

I think it's it's wrong to write something off just because the carb percentage is above a certain level. Sure, buckwheat is high but the low GI makes a difference, and the chiro-inositol aspect is fascinating.

I'm not recommending it to anyone, just pointing out that it seems to work for me: people can do their own experiments.

My general take on the subject is that the brain chooses glucose as it's fuel and for that matter, pretty much every other cell does too, so it seems insane to suggest that carbs should play no part in all this.Sure, moderate them to avoid spikes, but like I've seen on this site, people feeling guilty about eating a Jacobs cream cracker, loosen up a bit.

As a type 1 you have more flexibility regarding carb intake than those of us who do not inject.

Have a look back through the thread. The original poster was a Type 2. The majority of the posts suggesting stricter carb control are by T2s, many of whom manage their diabetes by diet and exercise. The majority of posts suggesting higher levels of carb intake are Type 1 or LADA 1.5.

That is great. Always good to hear differing points of view, but worth bearing in mind that different types of diabetes have different management strategies, and for some, it isn't possible to bolus.

 

[Resurgam]

Actually - the brain functions better on ketones - someone checked.
I have to admit that if I'd still been eating a low carb diet I'd probably never have been diagnosed with diabetes - not because the high carb diet brought on the diabetes but because the low carb diet negates the obvious symptoms. At my second blood test I showed numbers which were diagnostic of pre diabetic - at my next one - presumably I will get a next one, I would hope to show normal, as my numbers for daily BG are down from when the test was done.

 

[Scott-C]

As a type 1 you have more flexibility regarding carb intake than those of us who do not inject.

Have a look back through the thread. The original poster was a Type 2. The majority of the posts suggesting stricter carb control are by T2s, many of whom manage their diabetes by diet and exercise. The majority of posts suggesting higher levels of carb intake are Type 1 or LADA 1.5.

That is great. Always good to hear differing points of view, but worth bearing in mind that different types of diabetes have different management strategies, and for some, it isn't possible to bolus.

@Brunneria, you're right. You post a lot on this site and you clearly know what you're talking about. As a T1, I do tend to focus on that aspect of it. My knowledge of other types is nil, so please forgive me if I've got it wrong.

Scottish people like me tend to take the **** out of people we respect: we don't do hugging, so don't take anything I say too seriously. Example: there's a T2 who is a regular in my local bar, he had a go with the libre, decided it didn't work for him. We ended up agreeing that I use the libre because it allows me to go out and get wrecked on a Saturday night, and it didn't work for him because, I said, being T2 not on insulin, he's not a "real diabetic". Both of us knew that those statements were entirely false, but that's the point: we know each other and are comfortable taking the mickey out of each other.

It reminds me of a Polish barmaid in another local who said to me, " Scott, the people in here are all friends, so why are they so nasty to each other?" Answer: we do respect each other, but we're Scottish so it's more fun to wind them up. If anyone has a go at them, I'll go to jail to protect them, even though I've been raking them moments before.

My only experience of RH is in Patras in Greece. Went to see some caves with a Canadian girl, don't remember her name, long time ago, don't drink coffee much but in the heat got fond of cafe frappes, she tried one, short while later she's doing the whole cold sweat thing. As a type 1, obvious reaction is some sugar, but
I seriously didn't have a clue how to deal with someone who would get worse with more sugar. She settled down after a while. Just goes to show that despite parental worries Ds of any type can head off anywhere and someone will look after them if it gets messy.

 

[azure]

In many ways you are right but over several years now I've seen very few posts from those who successfully have a medium or high carb diet and have diabetes at any reasonable level. There is no doubt that all those carbs convert to glucose but if you have a high natural metabolism or exercise a lot then those carbs will be turned into useable energy rather than stored as fat or lurk in the blood raising BS.

It depends what you call moderate and high carb. I've seen plenty of posts from Type 1s who eat moderate carbs, and some from those who,eat high(er) carb.

As @DaftThoughts says, we're all different.

 

[bulkbiker]

I wasn't sure of the context, hence my question. Also English is my 4th language, so please be considerate.

Scientists still don't have the answer to what causes T2D (or even T1/other forms of diabetes for that matter) so I hardly feel qualified to answer that. I do know that excess carb consumption alone doesn't cause it, otherwise my 6'0" tall 130lbs younger sister would be T2 diabetic already - the things she's eaten throughout the years is astounding and qualifies as an extremely high carb diet. (And no, she's not diabetic, she's been tested often.) If excess carb consumption alone would be the cause of T2D, we'd have a lot more diabetics than we already do in the world as well. We'd also be seeing a dramatic increase in vegans who become diabetics who follow an extremely high carb, low fat diet, but they are generally healthier than those who eat less carbs.

Again, individual needs differ per person - that's why they're called individual needs, and why one diet won't work for everyone.

Well she may be well down the way but may not show any symptoms for decades...
Dr joseph Kraft who unfortunately died last week at 95 gave people an OGTT and tested their bloods for the next 5 hours regularly and showed that there was a normal response and 4 abnormal responses which all predicted an eventual Type 2 diagnosis possibly many years down the line. Amazingly this is rarely used today but would probably help so many with undiagnosed pre diabetes.

 

[Pura Vida]

Message not getting through in Canada "Managing Diabetes Magazine "

 

[Pinkorchid]

I think that advising lower carb for diabetics by their HCP's is becoming more wide spread but the general advice is still low saturated animal fat and I think will be for a very long time . I do not believe our bodies actually need saturated fat because vegans and vegetarians even those with diabetes do perfectly well without it

 

[DaftThoughts]

Wow, that's impressive! All your posts are very fluent, I would never have guessed it wasn't your first language. Bit off topic but what are the other three? English is my first language but I can barely speak it after three beers. I recall being in a bar in a backpackers hostel in Tirana with people from six nations, three continents, and felt slightly ashamed they could all speak my language but I couldn't hazard a guess at theirs.

Thanks! Limburgish, Dutch and German. I also understand and speak basic phrases in Japanese and Korean, speak a little bit French, can understand some Spanish etc. I have a thing for languages lol.

We do all react differently to different carbs. My view is similar to @BrianTheElder that mainstream carbs are not good for diabetics and non diabetics. I base this generalisation on the high levels of insulin resistance in the general population, the ever increasing insulin response required to deliver normal blood sugar's in non diabetics, the blood sugar spikes outside of the prescribed ranges of non-diabetics such as the chap who runs diet doctor when eating high carb.

I personally feel, based on the research I've read, that the blame lies mostly with the fact many carbs we consume are heavily processed, and since around the 80's-90's, the low fat diet became 'the' diet to follow. Fat was the enemy for decades, while being substituted with processed simple carbs to keep the flavor intact. I believe we're feeling the effects of this change more and more, especially as the adult generation of that time is now growing older and suffering the long-lasting effects of this diet.

I also think this is why vegans who are on a low fat high carb diet aren't sick as much and have lowered risks for diabetes; their carbs are unprocessed and consumed with a great amount of fiber generally speaking, and combined with adequate exercise.

(I also want to clarify that I'm speaking mainly about non-diabetics for this, we're obviously playing a different game with our conditions and even whole carbs affect us way differently now.)

 

[DaftThoughts]

Well she may be well down the way but may not show any symptoms for decades...
Dr joseph Kraft who unfortunately died last week at 95 gave people an OGTT and tested their bloods for the next 5 hours regularly and showed that there was a normal response and 4 abnormal responses which all predicted an eventual Type 2 diagnosis possibly many years down the line. Amazingly this is rarely used today but would probably help so many with undiagnosed pre diabetes.

She'll always be at risk because both T1D and T2D occur heavily in both sides of our families. I have two cousins on my mom's side with T1, my dad and uncle are T2, my mom's grandmother had GD which turned into insulin dependent diabetes etc. Her main problem is that she's chronically underweight (one of the reasons she tests frequently for T1D) but she has adrenal gland issues that make the pounds fly off with minimal stress... exactly the opposite of me. I'm not sure how this would affect the possibility of diabetes in general, but we're conscious of it. She's more likely to end up with T1 if genetics are any indication.

 

[Bluetit1802]

It isn't just diabetes and blood glucose levels that are affected by high carb diets. Carbs are inflammatory, so arthritis sufferers might benefit from low carb diets. How many people are running about the world with high cholesterol, including millions with undiagnosed high cholesterol? High carb diets certainly don't help these people. The more carbs you eat the lower your HDL is likely to be, and high carbs are one cause of heart issues, and excessive fructose (fruit) is known to cause fatty livers. They are simply not good for diabetics or the general population. Of course, there will be some people who metabolise them better than others, but it's a risk I'm not going to take again.

 

[Alison Campbell]

The tone of the article also suggests that everyone in the world is negatively affected by carbs

I believe that high carbs diets are affecting the world. When I say high I mean above the UK RDA which is about 280g per day.

I was doing some research before responding to a type 2 teenager the other week and the prevalence of type 2 and obesity in older children in the UK and US is really quite worrying.

Yes there are other factors at play in modern lives which mean we cannot compare people now in care homes who may have had to walk miles to school (like my mum) with children now being driven less than a mile, soft drinks vending machines in schools, mobile phones and playstations.

Not science I know but, has anyone else noticed that the age of newly diagnosed type 2s is falling?

 

[Mbaker]

Thanks! Limburgish, Dutch and German. I also understand and speak basic phrases in Japanese and Korean, speak a little bit French, can understand some Spanish etc. I have a thing for languages lol.


I personally feel, based on the research I've read, that the blame lies mostly with the fact many carbs we consume are heavily processed, and since around the 80's-90's, the low fat diet became 'the' diet to follow. Fat was the enemy for decades, while being substituted with processed simple carbs to keep the flavor intact. I believe we're feeling the effects of this change more and more, especially as the adult generation of that time is now growing older and suffering the long-lasting effects of this diet.

I also think this is why vegans who are on a low fat high carb diet aren't sick as much and have lowered risks for diabetes; their carbs are unprocessed and consumed with a great amount of fiber generally speaking, and combined with adequate exercise.

(I also want to clarify that I'm speaking mainly about non-diabetics for this, we're obviously playing a different game with our conditions and even whole carbs affect us way differently now.)

Hi @DaftThoughts I agree that many mainstream consumed carbs are over processed, but I would also add it is the density of the process which adds to the carb hit, take a look at white flour production, it takes circa 9 square feet of wheat to make 4 cups of flour, this is effectively condensed carbs, no wonder bread etc is so spikey. If you were able to use the wheat closer to its natural state, the carb hit would be significantly lower. I believe the safest carbs are above ground vegetables.

What can't be disputed is that the body can run fine on ketones, but not healthily in the long term on excessive carbs.

I agree that low fat mantra has been misleading; the powers that be should call good fats something else as I think the general public have it in their psyche that all fat is bad, when I started LCHF it took me a while, a lot of research and a HbA1c before I would trust full fat yogurt.

Veganism is similar in the broadness of choices to LCHF, but it does allow foods such as grapes, oranges, bananas, flour, potatoes, pasta are part of the menu, this would destroy my figures. I do agree with Dr. Gabriel Cousens who appears to be a leading exponent of Veganism, as he stated that for diabetic patients he adjusts carbs, which does follow a similar path to LCHF. I must admit after watching Forks over Knives, Cowspiracy, Live and Let Live and several other Netflix movies it is a close call for me to keep consuming meat and diary in particular. I for one have customised my version of LCHF to the point where around 60% falls into the Vegan camp (nuts, seeds, berries, lots of vegetables / salad).