Diet Dilemmas.

[Nicksellick]

Hi all,
is anyone else struggling with conflicting advice regarding diet?
As a T2D I also have slightly raised cholesterol.
I have made my diet as cholesterol friendly as I can, but I thought I would also try some Benecol type products with the added plant stencils.
Unfortunately the only ones I have found have synthetic sweeteners which recent research says is no better for “us” than normal sugar, and is probably worse.(micro biome, etc).
I eat berries, etc, but worry about the fructose. Does the
benefit of the phytonutrients, polyphenols, fibre, etc, outweigh the downside of the fructose?
Does the generally accepted benefit of porridge oats helping to lower cholesterol outweigh the fact that it is a carbohydrate?
Has anyone been doing the HFLC diet for long enough to know that it has no long term implications?
I don’t like drinking water, but am now concerned about the aspartame in every single “low sugar “ squash I can find.
It a blooming minefield!

 

[Antje77]

When I was first diagnosed almosed 7 years ago, my lipids were pretty much out of whack.
I changed my diet to LCHF and my lipids have been perfect according to all guidelines for years.

No idea if it was the change of diet or normalising my blood glucose that made my lipids go to where they should be, but it definitely didn't need any benecol, fibre or polyphenols. I eat so little fruit that it's negligible.

 

[KennyA]

Hi all,
is anyone else struggling with conflicting advice regarding diet?
As a T2D I also have slightly raised cholesterol.
I have made my diet as cholesterol friendly as I can, but I thought I would also try some Benecol type products with the added plant stencils.
Unfortunately the only ones I have found have synthetic sweeteners which recent research says is no better for “us” than normal sugar, and is probably worse.(micro biome, etc).
I eat berries, etc, but worry about the fructose. Does the
benefit of the phytonutrients, polyphenols, fibre, etc, outweigh the downside of the fructose?
Does the generally accepted benefit of porridge oats helping to lower cholesterol outweigh the fact that it is a carbohydrate?
Has anyone been doing the HFLC diet for long enough to know that it has no long term implications?
I don’t like drinking water, but am now concerned about the aspartame in every single “low sugar “ squash I can find.
It a blooming minefield!

I'm not sure anyone really knows the answwers to your questions in terms of you as an individual. Some people will claim to do so in terms of large populations, but they also get things wrong, see the "eatwell plare" as an example.

My blood lipids are much better then they were four years ago despite not eating anything that follows the official advice. My cholesterol has come down (nb I don't think this is at all important, but the health service obsesses about it). The Hunt2 study on cholesterol and mortality found no association with mortality (and a positive association of high cholesterol with longer life for women)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21951982/

using the same data, the BMJ also criticised the standard Euro and UK guidelines for over-identifying risk.

Estimating the high risk group for cardiovascular disease in the Norwegian HUNT 2 population according to the 2003 European guidelines: modelling study

Objective To estimate the high risk group for cardiovascular disease in a well defined Norwegian population according to European guidelines and the systematic coronary risk evaluation system. Design Modelling study. Setting Nord-Tröndelag health study 1995-7 (HUNT 2), Norway. Participants...

www.bmj.com

As I had a good number of painful and likely to get worse diabetic symptoms, even if i believed I was marginally increasing my heart disease risk (which I don't), keeping my blood glucose in normal range would be my priority.

I found Dr Malcolm Kendrick's book "The Clot Thickens" to be a good read on this subject.

 

[Nicksellick]

I'm not sure anyone really knows the answwers to your questions in terms of you as an individual. Some people will claim to do so in terms of large populations, but they also get things wrong, see the "eatwell plare" as an example.

My blood lipids are much better then they were four years ago despite not eating anything that follows the official advice. My cholesterol has come down (nb I don't think this is at all important, but the health service obsesses about it). The Hunt2 study on cholesterol and mortality found no association with mortality (and a positive association of high cholesterol with longer life for women)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21951982/

using the same data, the BMJ also criticised the standard Euro and UK guidelines for over-identifying risk.

Estimating the high risk group for cardiovascular disease in the Norwegian HUNT 2 population according to the 2003 European guidelines: modelling study

Objective To estimate the high risk group for cardiovascular disease in a well defined Norwegian population according to European guidelines and the systematic coronary risk evaluation system. Design Modelling study. Setting Nord-Tröndelag health study 1995-7 (HUNT 2), Norway. Participants...

www.bmj.com

As I had a good number of painful and likely to get worse diabetic symptoms, even if i believed I was marginally increasing my heart disease risk (which I don't), keeping my blood glucose in normal range would be my priority.

I found Dr Malcolm Kendrick's book "The Clot Thickens" to be a good read on this subject.

Ah, I’m reading that now. Very interesting.
Is there a meal plan for LCHF. What would be the sort of things you eat? Breakfast for example.

 

[KennyA]

Ummm...I have never eaten breakfast as long as I can recall. These days breakfast for me is coffee. I have a real breakfast maybe once a month, if that, when it's a proper fry-up. The things I leave out are breads (fried or otherwise), beans, hash browns/home fries etc. I go for high meat sausage - 95% meat.

I don't think there's a single LCHF meal plan. It's less about what you eat and more about what you don't eat. One of the things you need to tackle is that a lot of things used to bulk out meals (eg potatoes, pasta, rice, bread) are all carb heavy and best avoided. Thing is, the fats and proteins are more satiating, so I didn't need to replace the bulk. A big steak will keep me from wanting to eat for 24 hours.

Bacon and eggs is zero carb. Eggs are a meal on their own anyway combined with a bit of onion and ham or salami. Tonight we had lamb steaks with tzatziki, a green salad with some peppers, tomatos, parmesan and oil/balsamic dressing, and another avocado/feta/pomegranate seed (a few) salad with olive oil.

You'll find a number of meal plans and recipes elsewhere on this forum:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/free-7-day-and-30-day-low-carb-meal-plan.191532/

 

[Nicksellick]

Ummm...I have never eaten breakfast as long as I can recall. These days breakfast for me is coffee. I have a real breakfast maybe once a month, if that, when it's a proper fry-up. The things I leave out are breads (fried or otherwise), beans, hash browns/home fries etc. I go for high meat sausage - 95% meat.

I don't think there's a single LCHF meal plan. It's less about what you eat and more about what you don't eat. One of the things you need to tackle is that a lot of things used to bulk out meals (eg potatoes, pasta, rice, bread) are all carb heavy and best avoided. Thing is, the fats and proteins are more satiating, so I didn't need to replace the bulk. A big steak will keep me from wanting to eat for 24 hours.

Bacon and eggs is zero carb. Eggs are a meal on their own anyway combined with a bit of onion and ham or salami. Tonight we had lamb steaks with tzatziki, a green salad with some peppers, tomatos, parmesan and oil/balsamic dressing, and another avocado/feta/pomegranate seed (a few) salad with olive oil.

You'll find a number of meal plans and recipes elsewhere on this forum:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/free-7-day-and-30-day-low-carb-meal-plan.191532/

Brilliant. Thank you.

 

[ianf0ster]

Even people like me who always used to eat breakfast find that once Fat adapted due to eating Low Carb, we aren't hungry in a morning, so extend our overnight fast in order to give our bodies an even longer break from insulin.

The best breakfast before being fat adapted was eggs : boiled (can be stored in the fridge for a few days, fired, poached, or as a mushroom omelette.

 

[Robbity]

....
I eat berries, etc, but worry about the fructose. Does the
benefit of the phytonutrients, polyphenols, fibre, etc, outweigh the downside of the fructose?
....

As long as you're not eating food with added fructose (e.g. high fructose corn syrup) or huge amounts of fruit (and be aware that some vegetables may also contain fructose), you shouldn't really have anything to worry about - our bodies are quite able to process and use it . I remember a while back seeing information that around 20g fructose can be considered as acceptable/safe to consume.

 

[Daphne917]

Ah, I’m reading that now. Very interesting.
Is there a meal plan for LCHF. What would be the sort of things you eat? Breakfast for example.

For breakfast I either have Full Fat Greek Yoghurt with Berries which I’ve puréed in the microwave to make a compote, Paleo cereal with blueberries, omelette or scrambled/poached egg with a slice of toast.

 

[carty]

My cholesterol was over 7 when I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes but when I started higher fat lower carb my levels went down to just over 5 which I think is ok for me as an older woman
My breakfast is my one slice of bread for the day ( fairly low carb ) with lots of cheese toasted and marmite .Then full fat natural yoghurt and double cream and a few berries .
Carol

 

[ajbod]

Your level of 5 ish is perfect for you at this time. Your body regulates the level at what it NEEDS, if it needs more your level will rise, in as little as 3 days, then fall back or remain high depending on YOUR bodies requirements.

 

[EllieWC]

Hi Kenny
I was advised that benecol does nothing to help unless you use all their products, and then it is not enough on its own. I paid for diet advice from a clinic who who helped set up a low-fat regime and low sugar. They emphasised that I should eat every 3-4 hours and spread my food out as a result. Cheese is my downfall, and you will find very little low fat cheese around but worth searching for. 1tsp of added fat per meal is the suggestion. And each main meal should be a plate of 3 items. 50% vegs, 25% carbs, and 25% protein. This has worked on my sugars etc but not my weight! And so I am going to try the NHS 12 week diet and then the weight clinic, but my appt isn't till next year! Hence the 12 week

 

[Lupf]

Hi @Nicksellick as you can see we are all different.
My cholesterol has come down with the weight loss and the HbA1c.
I usually eat breakfast and I have increased my intake of fats from egg, cheese, yoghurt.
Anything low fat is banned. it is now clear and more or less accepted by the medical profession
that the cholesterol in your blood is not really related to what you eat.

 

[KennyA]

Hi Kenny
I was advised that benecol does nothing to help unless you use all their products, and then it is not enough on its own. I paid for diet advice from a clinic who who helped set up a low-fat regime and low sugar. They emphasised that I should eat every 3-4 hours and spread my food out as a result. Cheese is my downfall, and you will find very little low fat cheese around but worth searching for. 1tsp of added fat per meal is the suggestion. And each main meal should be a plate of 3 items. 50% vegs, 25% carbs, and 25% protein. This has worked on my sugars etc but not my weight! And so I am going to try the NHS 12 week diet and then the weight clinic, but my appt isn't till next year! Hence the 12 week

I do pretty much the direct opposite of what your clinic recommended to you. I won't charge you, though.

They seem to have followed the current recent orthodoxy of low fat while reducing carb only very slightly. It wouldn't work for me - it's the sort of low fat diet I used to follow and which concluded with me developing diabetes.

I certainly don't have a low-fat regime. Low sugar and low carb, yes, to the extent of ~20g carb/day. I eat a substantial meal once a day in the evening, with a small "breakfast" around 1-2pm - usually a combination of ham, cheese and olives. Quite a bit of cheese - wouldn't consider eating low-fat cheese. My main meals tend to be proteins, veg and fats (no idea what proportions) but I certainly consider 25% carb in one meal to be way too high for me. My results (I'm in the fourth year of this approach) are in the signature block below.

 

[pinkjude]

Hi all,
is anyone else struggling with conflicting advice regarding diet?
As a T2D I also have slightly raised cholesterol.
I have made my diet as cholesterol friendly as I can, but I thought I would also try some Benecol type products with the added plant stencils.
Unfortunately the only ones I have found have synthetic sweeteners which recent research says is no better for “us” than normal sugar, and is probably worse.(micro biome, etc).
I eat berries, etc, but worry about the fructose. Does the
benefit of the phytonutrients, polyphenols, fibre, etc, outweigh the downside of the fructose?
Does the generally accepted benefit of porridge oats helping to lower cholesterol outweigh the fact that it is a carbohydrate?
Has anyone been doing the HFLC diet for long enough to know that it has no long term implications?
I don’t like drinking water, but am now concerned about the aspartame in every single “low sugar “ squash I can find.
It a blooming minefield!

The best advice I was given was to eat fruit straight after a meal or with a meal as this can mitigate a spike. Never eat on its own as a snack. My dietician reminds me its low carb not no carb but choose healthy carbs, small portions and not every day. My cholesterol is high despite me adopting an HFLC diet , one GP pushed statins which I refused, last one said its my choice and he wouldn't force me to take one. I think we are all different and there isnt a one size fits all. My BG is going up recently even though my diet is pretty good.

 

[ajbod]

If your body determines YOUR Cholesterol level should be 6 or 7, and the Pharma companies tell the medical bodies it should be 4, which one do you think is right for YOU.
My doctors bang on about my level being 5.9, but when i was 17 i was on a brand new treatment for acne that involved very high vitamin A levels, as a result all my liver functions were tested every week, for 6 months. My level then was just over 6, and was no problem at all. I'l let MY body set the level required by IT to do it's job properly, to artificially lower it, starves your body of what it needs, to repair damage, and manufacture various hormones.

 

[ukuleleplayer]

Hi all,
is anyone else struggling with conflicting advice regarding diet?
As a T2D I also have slightly raised cholesterol.
I have made my diet as cholesterol friendly as I can, but I thought I would also try some Benecol type products with the added plant stencils.
Unfortunately the only ones I have found have synthetic sweeteners which recent research says is no better for “us” than normal sugar, and is probably worse.(micro biome, etc).
I eat berries, etc, but worry about the fructose. Does the
benefit of the phytonutrients, polyphenols, fibre, etc, outweigh the downside of the fructose?
Does the generally accepted benefit of porridge oats helping to lower cholesterol outweigh the fact that it is a carbohydrate?
Has anyone been doing the HFLC diet for long enough to know that it has no long term implications?
I don’t like drinking water, but am now concerned about the aspartame in every single “low sugar “ squash I can find.
It a blooming minefield!

 

[ukuleleplayer]

I'm also T2DM. Below T2 HbA1c for eight years now. Diet controlled.

Firstly, don't worry about cholesterol. It protects you rather than harms you. Your body produces cholesterol but it can't be transferred from food.
And I will never take statins but that's just my opinion.
Porridge is very high in carbs, ie glucose. I would avoid it.
I eat some berries... strawberries and blueberries. I don't eat other stuff from nature's candy store ie fruit.
For drinking water, I take San Pellegrino sparkling water. Probably not ideal but nicer than some others.
Hope this helps.
Main thing is, don't worry too much. Keep carbs as low as you can but don't forget to enjoy life.

 

[Annb]

My GP put me onto Simvastatin years ago - without telling me what my cholesterol level was. In recent years I have been on the LCHF diet, although I was told I shouldn't because I no longer have a gall bladder. Again, without letting me know any figure (our GPs and hospital are bad for that) I was told that I no longer needed the statin and taken off it. So, I guess my "bad cholesterol" level has improved. Despite the diet, or would it be because of it?

 

[Tjh]

I don't worry about cholesterol at all. Keto/HFLC lifestyle for over 10 years. Great numbers & drug free thought. NHS were unhappy with cholesterol, however cannot/will not provide in depth testing (particle etc).
Check out Dr David Diamond on Ted Talks/You Tube & also Low Carb Down under (same sources).