First Steps

[Mr_Pot]

I have been reading this forum since I was diagnosed T2 nearly 2 years ago. A low carb diet has reduced my HbA1c to non diabetic level without medication, so I am a big fan. However, unless it is my imagination the T2 discussions, by some well known members in particular, have become increasingly hardcore, with 20g per day carb limits, micromanagement of protein intake, continuous glucose monitoring etc.

While this is their choice and may reflect the severity of their insulin resistance, I am worried that the newly diagnosed are going to think it is all too difficult and not even get started. If you want to learn to drive then starting with rallying might make you think it is not for you.

My suggestion, if you want to try a low carb diet, is to start simply and get more sophisticated as you learn and also as you become encouraged by the results. There are lots of suggestions for low carb diet ideas on this forum but I started with simple rules: Nothing actually sweet like biscuits, cakes, desserts; no bread (with a couple of exceptions), potatoes, pasta or rice; no drinks with sugar and very limited fruit. I didn't feel hungry by increasing my intake of veg, protein and fat. I didn't carb count but later I calculated I had about 80g of carbs a day.

The first question is often "What can I eat then?" It is not that difficult once you get into it. I try to have the same food as the rest of the family just modified, as an example here are my meals for today...
Breakfast: 1 slice Burgen toast with fried egg and bacon.
Lunch: Lidl Hi Protein (low carb) roll with smoked mackerel and salad.
Dinner: Roast beef, cabbage, peas, swede mash (note: no roast potatoes or yorkshires).

I would suggest getting the excellent book Carbs and Cals by Chris Cheyette et al to discover what is high carb and what isn't. Also getting a meter and testing before and 2 hrs after meals not only helps you discover what you can eat but is very encouraging to continue when you see the diet working.

 

[zand]

I agree, that's how I started low carbing as well (even before I was diagnosed T2).

The low carb program here is great because it too starts slowly and allows you to find the level of carbs correct for you. You obviously don't need this link @Mr_Pot but I am putting it here for anyone else who needs it.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/lowcarb/

 

[Bluetit1802]

I agree too.

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm probably one of the hard cores you are talking about..
My take on it is.. the fewer carbs you eat at the start the faster your bloods come down and you get better results and feel better quicker, as well as loose weight faster. To me that makes it easier.. I find that by getting results I am encouraged to continue.. Therefore if I was eating 100g of carbs a day and my bloods came down by say 0.5 mmol/l I'd start to thing sod this it's not worth it.. if my bloods came down by 4mmol/l by cutting carbs completely I'd think wow this way of eating is great!
I find it very hard to moderate things and am more of an all or nothing guy which is why I fast rather than try to restrict eating.
I realise we are all different and have to find our own way but when I see people recommending having say a biscuit I scream at the screen noooo because I know if I started the packet would be empty in minutes.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

Five weeks after diagnosis my blood sugar levels dropped from 13.1 to 9.8. Over the next few weeks I got it down to about 6.2.

I was measuring blood sugars only once a week and slowly stopped high carb foods like rice, potatoes and bread. I had swapped my breakfast cereal to ready brek and then to porridge, but I later found this raised my blood sugars to over 10, so I stopped eating it. I am still refining my low carb diet 6 months later and with the help of intermittent fasting I have got blood sugars below 6.

Most people are confused when they find they have type 2. Some people assume the drugs will sort them out and continue eating what they did before. This is a mistake and you seem to get people who have been diagnosed several years ago (and still have high blood sugars) asking on the forum about neuropathy when they could have avoided it if they had gone low carb straight off. Soon after I was diagnosed I watched the BBC Panorama program "Diabetes the hidden killer" and was shocked to see people with type 2 having their feet amputated. I wondered if such people had just daydreamed themselves into severe diabetes complications by a lack of testing and not taking action on their diet over a period of many years.

Whilst some people here many be a bit too enthusiastic about helping others, the results of not helping them can be dire.

 

[CherryAA]

If I had known on day one of my journey that there was such a thing as a continuous glucose monitor I would have bought it to find out what was happening.

I would also not have spent the first two months worrying about my very high fasting blood sugars, because I would have known much earlier that a big part of the increase was short lived and connected to me waking up, whereas overnight the actual blood sugars were much lower. I would similarly not have been confused about what to eat because some foods had a totally different effect depending on the time of day not the food. The blood sugar readings one or two hours after food would not have seemed like alchemy because I would have seen the actual spike developing correlated to the actual food and time of day and I would not have had to guess to find the peak.

I would not have had fingers that hurt like hell because of the number of times I was puncturing them nor would I have been keeping a complicated spreadsheet showing the data and trying to make sense of it, because I would have had a nice daily chart to look at and consider.

I would have learned much quicker that the occasional strong drink was not going to harm me, but the occasional biscuit would set me back a lot as would eating late in the eating, or overdosing on protein in my enthusiasm to cut out the carbs.

Technology is changing all the time and many people, when new diagnosed are motivated to learn as much as they can as quickly as they can.

I agree with @bulkbiker that reducing carbs A LOT makes a big difference quickly. When you are suddenly faced with something that seems life threatening and very very scary, being given information that can help you find a way to fix it quickly as opposed to simply "easing in " gently on the assumption that otherwise its too scary - is a little condescending to the new people- all of whom can see the information available and make their own choices based on it. There is NOTHING we can say about fixing it that is scary compared to actually being diagnosed in the first place.

I accept entirely that for many people getting a 24/7 monitor is outside their budget, however for those who can , and who can then share their experience with those who can't, then that improves the knowledge base for everyone.

When looking at the readings for @Mammabat, I can see totally how her figures correlated to what is happening- this is clear to me now with the monitor, it wasn't with the finger pricking , so hopefully I can provide some assurance to those newly diagnosed that this is eminently treatable, that diet will probably work for them and that if they take the LCHF road seriously they can probably feel happier with themselves that they have done for a long time. Technology helps achieve that, so for those who can afford it, why not take advantage? you don't have to wait to do that unless you want to.

As for my own use of it, I'm happy to share my data and my detailed diet with anyone who cannot afford to do the cgm , or doesn't have much pc aptitude or is a bit lost as to where to begin just pm me and I'll happily fill in more details.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I'm probably one of the hard cores you are talking about..

The point of my post was not to criticise anyone, if it works it's the right diet for you. I was aiming at the newly diagnosed and trying to say that a lot can be achieved with a simple approach and not to be put of trying to walk when you see other people running.
I find it very hard to moderate things and am more of an all or nothing guy which is why I fast rather than try to restrict eating.
I am taking a somewhat opposite approach. I am not aiming at perfection, just good enough to keep below diabetic levels, because if I am very lucky I will have to maintain this diet for the next 20 years so the easier the better. At the moment it takes no will power and I can allow myself a beer most nights in my total carbs.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think utter confusion is the biggest problem for newly diagnosed newbies. I also think we are all guilty of enhancing that confusion by battering them with too much information all at once. Simplicity is the best approach.

Most haven't a clue what any of the numbers mean, nor which tests they had, nor what they should be and what to expect in the way of NHS care. Links to various pages on the main website would help initially because newcomers have to learn what it all means, and what diabetes is, what our pancreas and livers actually do.

Telling people on their first post how we did it isn't very helpful, especially if there are 7 or 8 or more of these responses, all saying different things. Daisy's post is the best one, initially. Once they have had chance to read through her post and also many of the pages on the main website they can then come back and ask questions.

I'm not criticising anyone at all, I know I am as bad as others.

 

[CherryAA]

I' not sure I agree. of course giving people the basics is hugely important, but also hearing messages from others saying yes it can be sorted is immensely reassuring. i know when I first joined reading the stuff from @bulkbiker gave me real hope - the fact that I couldn't necessarily follow what he was saying yet did not stop it from being immensely reassuring that other people out there seemed to know what they were talking about and had had success - so whilst I had suddenly found myself in a scary place - it was one I could see an escape route immediately and if one has been faced with the " -its incurable - insulin is your lot and amputation will follow - that was a huge relief to know. I could look back later on what was said and gradually sort it all out, but just like then one woman in the trial - showed me it could be done, so did @bulkbiker and I am very grateful for that, because it was immediate personalised attention to my specific problem from someone who had been there , done that and got the t-shirt ! I didn't mind the fact that I wasn't that clear on it all at that point - at least someone knew something and it was a real person with my actual problem - that was hugely reassuring!

 

[Resurgam]

I hope that I am reassuring in telling newcomers that lower numbers are achievable - I can't advise anyone to eat very low carb, as I can't - I tried and it felt rather wrong and a bit scary, and caused huge loss of weight, but I can see how people who advise it think that they are helping, because it helped them.

 

[CherryAA]

I;m intrigued about your signature then - you say " total low carb nutcase - but you can't eat very low carb- where did you end up in terms of carbs ? and how much weight did you lose to what level? how did losing even more manifest did you lose your appetite ?

Low carb is no longer making me any thinner - i will need to restrict calorie intake as well to get any lower now.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I have been reading this forum since I was diagnosed T2 nearly 2 years ago. A low carb diet has reduced my HbA1c to non diabetic level without medication, so I am a big fan. However, unless it is my imagination the T2 discussions, by some well known members in particular, have become increasingly hardcore, with 20g per day carb limits, micromanagement of protein intake, continuous glucose monitoring etc.

While this is their choice and may reflect the severity of their insulin resistance, I am worried that the newly diagnosed are going to think it is all too difficult and not even get started. If you want to learn to drive then starting with rallying might make you think it is not for you.

My suggestion, if you want to try a low carb diet, is to start simply and get more sophisticated as you learn and also as you become encouraged by the results. There are lots of suggestions for low carb diet ideas on this forum but I started with simple rules: Nothing actually sweet like biscuits, cakes, desserts; no bread (with a couple of exceptions), potatoes, pasta or rice; no drinks with sugar and very limited fruit. I didn't feel hungry by increasing my intake of veg, protein and fat. I didn't carb count but later I calculated I had about 80g of carbs a day.

The first question is often "What can I eat then?" It is not that difficult once you get into it. I try to have the same food as the rest of the family just modified, as an example here are my meals for today...
Breakfast: 1 slice Burgen toast with fried egg and bacon.
Lunch: Lidl Hi Protein (low carb) roll with smoked mackerel and salad.
Dinner: Roast beef, cabbage, peas, swede mash (note: no roast potatoes or yorkshires).

I would suggest getting the excellent book Carbs and Cals by Chris Cheyette et al to discover what is high carb and what isn't. Also getting a meter and testing before and 2 hrs after meals not only helps you discover what you can eat but is very encouraging to continue when you see the diet working.

I agree with this. Keep it simple, avoid the big carb hitters and test what is left.

This should be enough to show an improvement and kickstart motivation. Fine tuning can come later when things have calmed down. It is easy for people to get confused and overwhelmed by information, especially when they may be feeling vulnerable and blindsided by diagnosis.

 

[britishpub]

Yep. Just stop eating the obvious Carbs (Bread, Potatoes, Pasta, Rice, Cakes, Biscuits) and it will all fall into place. Micromanaging will only make it harder, as will continually seeking substitutes.

You know what you can't eat, so stop eating it.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Yep. Just stop eating the obvious Carbs (Bread, Potatoes, Pasta, Rice, Cakes, Biscuits) and it will all fall into place. Micromanaging will only make it harder, as will continually seeking substitutes.

You know what you can't eat, so stop eating it.

Exactly!

Your figures are certainly proof that low carb can have very dramatic results!

 

[Resurgam]

I;m intrigued about your signature then - you say " total low carb nutcase - but you can't eat very low carb- where did you end up in terms of carbs ? and how much weight did you lose to what level? how did losing even more manifest did you lose your appetite ?

Low carb is no longer making me any thinner - i will need to restrict calorie intake as well to get any lower now.

It was back in the dim and distant past when I found my first Dr Atkins book, and I tried 20 gm of carbs for about three days - I lost 7lb, but could only crawl up the stairs, so I increased my carb intake. On most days I went out into the garden and bounced on the trampoline and also went out on my bike to do errands, and I could lose 4lb a week on 80gm per day. On wet days I cut down to 60gm of carb and still lost 4lb a week.
I was used to eating small meals as I had been on so many diets from the doctor - all far too high in carbs for me ever to lose weight. I don't remember having no appetite - but since taking the Metformin and statin tablets last year, my memory has been really bad. I have been reading my diaries and some notebooks, and turning out the bedrooms I have found some clothes which are several sizes too small for me, at present, but which I obviously wore not so long ago.
These days I am eating about 40 gm of carb a day, but my legs are so painful that I am doing very little exercise. I am finding it difficult to maintain my weight but I think that is due to my resistance to insulin reducing. I need to exercise to lose weight, or at least be a lot more mobile. I put the pains down to the medication, as I was not in such pain before last November.

 

[bulkbiker]

Telling people on their first post how we did it isn't very helpful

I would say that's exactly what most people initially diagnosed are desperate to hear. "How the hell can I control this thing?".
That's why I come here so much to try to help. I was trying to look back at my initial posts but unfortunately I don't seem to be able but I'm sure I was dazed and confused and looking for help. I'm know many of the people here gave me that help so I try and repay them. If that makes me a hard core low carber then so be it. When I see people trying to replace carbs with carb like things I get quite sad.. its an unnecessary and slippery slope. That's my view at least.

 

[Daphne917]

I, quite literally, stumbled onto this forum about 1 year after my T2 diagnosis. My mother was T2 and I thought that I knew what I needed to eat i.e. Low fat and brown everything inc bread, pasta, rice and jacket potatoes - you know a 'healthy', wholesome diet. This was reinforced by the dietician and my DN. However after reading the information I realised why my mother, despite rigidly following this advice, had progressed along the perceived 'normal' progression route of diet, tablets then insulin which I want to avoid and, I'm happy to report, have done - apart from about 4 months when statins increased my BS to a level that I was prescribed Sitaglipten. I think the three pieces of advice I would give to any newbie is buy a meter and use it to determine your diet, cut down on carbs and don't be afraid to experiment either in devising meals or eating something that you're unsure whether or not it will raise your BS because your meter is your friend.

 

[CherryAA]

I would say that's exactly what most people initially diagnosed are desperate to hear. "How the hell can I control this thing?".
That's why I come here so much to try to help. I was trying to look back at my initial posts but unfortunately I don't seem to be able but I'm sure I was dazed and confused and looking for help. I'm know many of the people here gave me that help so I try and repay them. If that makes me a hard core low carber then so be it. When I see people trying to replace carbs with carb like things I get quite sad.. its an unnecessary and slippery slope. That's my view at least.

That is precisely my point, as a newbie I couldn't really care less about the underlying complexities of what was involved , i could deal with that in due course, but to find out instantly that this was NOT like having a death sentence and it probably DIDN'T mean drugs was like manna from heaven.

My own utter anxiety about the diagnosis only lasted about two days and that came from hearing those stories in response to my anxious initial posts.

I also agree that there is a huge effort involved in trying to create " carb" like stuff . if instead you embrace the new diet then life becomes a lot easier. My thought is each time I make some attempt to make something that could be like bread it just reawakens the thought that bread would be nice. If I simply stick my runny eggs on a bed of spinach to soak up the yolk, or wrap a beefburger in romaine or iceberg lettuce and mayo, I realise that actually it tastes bloody brilliant, I can still eat it with my hands and still sit having a beefburger with my mates in the park. The only difference is that people are most impressed with my quirky choices!

All power to those with the patience to make the carb like products ( my own new lodger is into trying that ans he has come up with some " interesting" tastes as a result . I too have embraced cauliflower with relish, but the main point is that the more time spent investigating new options instead of mourning lost old ones, the better!

On the drinks front I've made a new hobby out of investigating single malts and its grand fun - so its not a question of I had to give up something because of this diagnosis , its a question of which one next !

I've just spent my overnight fasting at 4.5 , and my dawn phenomenon including breakfast high at 6.6 , reading the stuff @bulkbiker said back then last august when I was waking up at 11 and spending the day in the high teens gave me so much hope that this could work for me too and it has and I will be eternally grateful for what he said as a result.

 

[CherryAA]

It was back in the dim and distant past when I found my first Dr Atkins book, and I tried 20 gm of carbs for about three days - I lost 7lb, but could only crawl up the stairs, so I increased my carb intake. On most days I went out into the garden and bounced on the trampoline and also went out on my bike to do errands, and I could lose 4lb a week on 80gm per day. On wet days I cut down to 60gm of carb and still lost 4lb a week.
I was used to eating small meals as I had been on so many diets from the doctor - all far too high in carbs for me ever to lose weight. I don't remember having no appetite - but since taking the Metformin and statin tablets last year, my memory has been really bad. I have been reading my diaries and some notebooks, and turning out the bedrooms I have found some clothes which are several sizes too small for me, at present, but which I obviously wore not so long ago.
These days I am eating about 40 gm of carb a day, but my legs are so painful that I am doing very little exercise. I am finding it difficult to maintain my weight but I think that is due to my resistance to insulin reducing. I need to exercise to lose weight, or at least be a lot more mobile. I put the pains down to the medication, as I was not in such pain before last November.

Are you still taking the statins and the metformin? On the day I was diagnosed I was already on three blood pressure medications and one for gout. My cholesterol had risen to 5.5 and the doctor was all for prescribing both metformin and statins. In the three day haitus between being diagnosed and collecting the meds I found this place and decided to go for it without the medication. My blood lipid profile improved immeasurably when I stopped being scared of saturated fats with total cholesterol of only 3.9 with much higher HDL than before , my blood sugar reading have been excellent - though only as long as i stick to low carb- its perfectly obvious to me I'm still very diabetic. I've got rid of one B .P medication too.

I do think its a great shame that the doctors keep turning to metformin as the first resort which seems to give so many people so many problems . It should be prescribed only after the diet has not worked, for anyone who is keen to try to resolve this through diet instead of drugs. Its simply not fair to give people the sense that they are reliant on drugs when they might not be - the same goes for the statins to control cholesterol.

 

[Resurgam]

No - I stopped taking the Metformin and statin after about 5 weeks - my quality of life was such that if I continued I'd have been suicidal.
I went to do the Christmas shopping and could not remember where I'd parked the car, and when I opened the back I found I had already done the shopping - we were eating sprouts till February.
The side effects have reduced but not gone away. I can laugh now when it takes three goes to get a plate out of the cupboard but am rather sad when I forget that my daughter was expecting me to visit her.