LCHF isn't working.

[Geordie_P]

Well, do your best: there were some decent looking suggestions above- things like taking more systematic measurements and reducing the portions a little, so you could probably make it work if you had a mind to.

As far as feeling miserable and having no energy all the time goes, I know the feeling, but I'm pretty sure going back to the foods you used to eat before will make you feel *a lot* worse.

Best of luck to you.

 

[kokhongw]

I would probably also try taking out the lean meat...basically I stick to roast pork belly most of the time. It is safe habour. and I enjoy it...hardly a blip after meal...

 

[ringi]

Remember that most of the fat in low carb high fat can come from your own body until you have lost as much weight as you wish to lose. Hence no roast pork belly for me, but I have stopped buying low-fat products and now leave the skin on chicken.

 

[AloeSvea]

I know from this forum that plenty of people say it works.
But for me, right at this moment it seems like a load of ********.
So depressed with it. Trying my best and getting nowhere.

I'll stop the drink on Saturday and test more.
But if nothing changes in 2 weeks time I'll be going back to the foods I enjoyed eating before I discovered I was type2.

I see no sense in feeling miserable and having no energy all the time.

I am feeling very moved by what you are saying and feeling. It's no small thing to go from the kind of High Carb Low Fat diets many of us were on before trying to get better with T2D on a low-carb diet. You, absolutely, can go through a rough patch when you feel like ****! (The 'low carb flu'.) Even quite a long rough patch. Your body is doing some major adapting there, and it's tough giving up all those foods we used to eat and love.

(I had such high trig levels, for instance, when I first began moderate to low carbing and walking heaps the lab couldn't measure my LDL levels! My body was breaking down the fat I had stored and it was massively releasing into my blood stream.)

And I would be feeling like it was all ******** if I was thinking of either dropping the alcohol, or eating less too! .

I don't portion control actual meals, just individual food items, like pineapple pieces or apple pieces. I am a hearty eater, and extremely pleased to have discovered that healthy fats are A-1 for diabetics - fills us up, fires us up, and doesn't affect our blood glucose one bit. Yay!

Being more active and cutting down on energy from food is a losing proposition - I absolutely agree. So don't do it! Eating lots and moving lots can work well for some who have that constitution.

T2D on high carb is a losing proposition too. You don't need me to tell you what can happen if you continue to eat what your body can't take much more of? (Now - that's depressing!) Like others in this forum I used the horrible consequences of T2D as inspiration to make the transition to low-carbing, and making sure I don't drop the ball with activity. Saw a chocolate bar at the supermarket counter, thought of the prospect of losing my feet, my eyesight, didn't pick up the chocolate bar. Felt bloody bad about having T2D - so I went for a very very very long walk. It worked! (My HBA1c got lower and lower. Are you getting your HBA1c and other bloods checked regularly? It really helps to see how your body is changing.) It works! For me at least.

While you are adjusting to a new way of eating (and your new life knowing about your carbohydrate intolerance) - could I suggest you try the Paleo way of eating for a while at least? It's pretty easy to do, and if you are like me you might do well on lots of protein, which Paleo is. Half a plate meat/poultry/fish etc, half a plate veg. Small handful of nuts a day. Soon after I was diagnosed I ate Paleo for about six months, and it was a really yummy gentler way to transition. You don't get the same relatively quick great numbers true low-carbing and LCHF will give you (in time! You have to give your body time to adjust), but eating root veges and so on can be gentler for a while. But I had a really big-time sweet tooth (I know - what a surprise! And me a diabetic! ), that I had to 'work through'. Roast sweet potato for six months allowed me to wean myself off these things at a slower pace.

I stopped drinking beer as soon as I was diagnosed, but I understand what a loss beer is, can be. Low carb beers just don't taste the same either. I am lucky that I love sparkling dry wine, which is low-carb (a whole bottle is only 10g of carbs), and spirits - which are zero carb. You are not alone if you have become very interested in the carb count of different alcohols! As alcohol drinking is such a social thing, I would not bother about cutting it if you can find a low or zero carb alternative to beer. Because good social interactions can work a wonder on your blood glucose levels too! This is absolutely true for me at least.

And keep coming in here, keep watching youtubes on low carbing if you have begun doing so? Get the support from others that have done this, are doing this. Just like you are doing now. I read a lot about T2 and how to get better, but I understand that reading is not everyone's cup of tea. Youtube is great though! Which you can watch while cooking up yummy fatty meat in the kitchen.

But please don't give up on using diet and exercise to treat T2D. If we met at the pub and had this talk I would give you a big hug now, and say, "Hang in there, mate."

 

[frankbegbie]

I am feeling very moved by what you are saying and feeling. It's no small thing to go from the kind of High Carb Low Fat diets many of us were on before trying to get better with T2D on a low-carb diet. You, absolutely, can go through a rough patch when you feel like ****! (The 'low carb flu'.) Even quite a long rough patch. Your body is doing some major adapting there, and it's tough giving up all those foods we used to eat and love.

(I had such high trig levels, for instance, when I first began moderate to low carbing and walking heaps the lab couldn't measure my LDL levels! My body was breaking down the fat I had stored and it was massively releasing into my blood stream.)

And I would be feeling like it was all ******** if I was thinking of either dropping the alcohol, or eating less too! .

I don't portion control actual meals, just individual food items, like pineapple pieces or apple pieces. I am a hearty eater, and extremely pleased to have discovered that healthy fats are A-1 for diabetics - fills us up, fires us up, and doesn't affect our blood glucose one bit. Yay!

Being more active and cutting down on energy from food is a losing proposition - I absolutely agree. So don't do it! Eating lots and moving lots can work well for some who have that constitution.

T2D on high carb is a losing proposition too. You don't need me to tell you what can happen if you continue to eat what your body can't take much more of? (Now - that's depressing!) Like others in this forum I used the horrible consequences of T2D as inspiration to make the transition to low-carbing, and making sure I don't drop the ball with activity. Saw a chocolate bar at the supermarket counter, thought of the prospect of losing my feet, my eyesight, didn't pick up the chocolate bar. Felt bloody bad about having T2D - so I went for a very very very long walk. It worked! (My HBA1c got lower and lower. Are you getting your HBA1c and other bloods checked regularly? It really helps to see how your body is changing.) It works! For me at least.

While you are adjusting to a new way of eating (and your new life knowing about your carbohydrate intolerance) - could I suggest you try the Paleo way of eating for a while at least? It's pretty easy to do, and if you are like me you might do well on lots of protein, which Paleo is. Half a plate meat/poultry/fish etc, half a plate veg. Small handful of nuts a day. Soon after I was diagnosed I ate Paleo for about six months, and it was a really yummy gentler way to transition. You don't get the same relatively quick great numbers true low-carbing and LCHF will give you (in time! You have to give your body time to adjust), but eating root veges and so on can be gentler for a while. But I had a really big-time sweet tooth (I know - what a surprise! And me a diabetic! ), that I had to 'work through'. Roast sweet potato for six months allowed me to wean myself off these things at a slower pace.

I stopped drinking beer as soon as I was diagnosed, but I understand what a loss beer is, can be. Low carb beers just don't taste the same either. I am lucky that I love sparkling dry wine, which is low-carb (a whole bottle is only 10g of carbs), and spirits - which are zero carb. You are not alone if you have become very interested in the carb count of different alcohols! As alcohol drinking is such a social thing, I would not bother about cutting it if you can find a low or zero carb alternative to beer. Because good social interactions can work a wonder on your blood glucose levels too! This is absolutely true for me at least.

And keep coming in here, keep watching youtubes on low carbing if you have begun doing so? Get the support from others that have done this, are doing this. Just like you are doing now. I read a lot about T2 and how to get better, but I understand that reading is not everyone's cup of tea. Youtube is great though! Which you can watch while cooking up yummy fatty meat in the kitchen.

But please don't give up on using diet and exercise to treat T2D. If we met at the pub and had this talk I would give you a big hug now, and say, "Hang in there, mate."

Thanks for that. I don't want to give up on the diet.
I just need a little bit of encouragement from all the big changes I've made to my eating habits.
Just a few pounds in weight loss is all it would take and it would give me the motivation to carry on with things and get even more determined.
But it's just not happening at the moment and all the stories about how different people are losing weight so easily is making me feel like you know what.

 

[serenity648]

I cant find it, but there is a thread (started by me) where those of us, including myself, are posting about how hard, almost impossible, we find it to lose weight. Its sometimes a comfort to know you are not the only one struggling with weight loss while all around us there are ones who find the weight drops off them on LCHF.

On the good side, my blood sugars are stable and much lower than before, when I ate a lot of carbs. I have a little bit more energy than before, but that has been since i started taking Vitamin D3 and B12.

edited to say: here is the thread http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/support-thread-for-those-of-us-who-dont-lose-weight.112253/

 

[KathyCP]

I've seen plenty of video's of people saying they eat 4 eggs every morning.
So called 'doctors'.
If my body hasn't ajusted to burning fat, I need a few calories in the tank befor I go swimming.

i swim a couple of times a week, about 25 minutes, always do a block of 20 lengths of front-crawl without a break, and then 10 lengths of mixed strokes, backstroke and front-crawl. i also thought i needed to fuel up my system before i swam, but started experimenting with what i needed to eat beforehand, and have found that i am fine not eating anything at all. i go up to the pool at about 8.30, and i have breakfast afterwards at about 10. i know we're not all the same, so your body may need something completely different from mine, but it may be worth playing around to see what you do actually need before going to swim. i always have a pack of peanuts with me, so that if i misjudge things i have a snack to hand (there may well be better things to eat in these situations, but they're easy to carry around).

 

[Indy51]

Gluconeogenesis is not as simple as excess protein turns to sugar, especially for Type 2s:
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html

And well worth reading, another new post by Amy of Tuit Nutrition on Ketosis, low carb, etc:
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/09/measuring-ketones.html

 

[Anthony1738]

A facinating thread and some awsome answers in support for you, read and take notice, it could save your life, all I have to humbly add is dont give up mate, LCHF will work for you.

 

[kokhongw]

One of the point we often missed out in our discussion is that our reason for going carbs lite fats friendly is that we want to significantly lower our circulating insulin levels. Only when that is sufficiently lowered are we able to tap on to our body fats...and proteins tends to be highly insulinogenic as well.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/hyperinsulinemia-insulin-body-2

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Hello frank. Its a real pain isn't it?. The first week I was dx I thought all I could eat was fruit and porridge and I would inevitably go blind and lose my feet. There seemed little point in changing to such a "restrictive" diet when it wouldn't do any good anyway. And when I did start lchf I felt dreadful, didnt lose weight and couldn't eat with family or enjoy going out.
But I persevered with it because it really is the only answer. And 3 months later I have lost weight, my numbers are better and I am starting to figure out how to make this a way of life and not just something I have to do for a couple of months and then go back to the old ways. Because it was the old ways that made me sick in the first place.

I can really understand your pain and frustration. But you have got this. You understand ( clearly) what the pitfalls are and know what to do about them. And everyone has wobbles. Sometimes I think I would kill fora plate of chips and feeding my grandson fish fingers is torture. But I like my eyesight more than a crispy crumb coating.

Please dont give up. Just take it one mouthful at a time.

 

[geefull]

Hi @frankbegbie

My reason for going LCHF was to improve my blood markers and to try to improve insulin sensitivity, weight loss is another effect but it may take time. Don't give up, it's worth it.

I'm one of those people who has lost a lot of weight, but, I have to say that whilst I've found it 'easier' on LCHF (easier than the virtual and miserable starvation I've felt over the years trying to lose weight following the guidelines), it wasn't 'easy' to start with.

When I was diagnosed I had got into some very bad habits, snacking constantly or missing meals because of work then making up for it with a massive carb fest.
One of the biggest problems I had when I first switched to eating lower carbs was that I had lost touch completely with any of the normal body signals for being 'full' and having eaten enough. I found that I had to use a food diary, measure my portions and calorie count so that I knew I'd had enough food of the right balance but with a bit of a calorie deficit so that I would push my body (liver etc.) to use it's stored fat.

It took a while for that body signaling awareness to return but the diary was helpful because I knew that even if I couldn't tell instinctively that I had eaten enough, I knew intellectually that I was having what I needed.

I don't keep the diary in as much detail now but I've kept it going (habit?) and I think it's going to prove useful as I push my calories up slowly to find my ideal level and try to get to a maintenance state.

 

[ringi]

When I first went LCHF I found if I did not "fuel up my system" my body would just "say no" if I tried to do much hard exersise. I deicded to just do the exersise my body was happy with, within a few weeks I could do any exersise without having eaten anything for mnay hours before.

It takes time for your body to get used to "burning fat" and if we "fuel up" with carbs before exersise we are stopy our bodies learning to burn fat.

I found a few 20 mile walks while doing a 24hr fast helped give my body the message that it had no option but to start burning fat. (Walk as far as I could in 3 hours, then turn round and walk home.)

 

[DCUKMod]

Ok so I'll start doing more testing late at night.
But I don't see what more I can do as far as my diet is concerened.
If I eat any less I may as well be on a low fat low calorie diet from the 70s.


Done that many times and it doesn't work long term.
After watching Fong's video's and reading his book, I thought it was the answer to all my dreams.
Eat enough to be satified and not hungry a couple of hours later.
Bring your blood glucose level down and lose loads of weight.
I know from this forum that plenty of people say it works.
But for me, right at this moment it seems like a load of ********.
So depressed with it. Trying my best and getting nowhere.

I'll stop the drink on Saturday and test more.
But if nothing changes in 2 weeks time I'll be going back to the foods I enjoyed eating before I discovered I was type2.

I see no sense in feeling miserable and having no energy all the time.

Frank - lots of testing is important at the moment, ad I would suggest you change nothing else right now, even if only for a week.

What you would be doing is providing yourself a baseline level against which you can measure the effectiveness of any changes. For all you know you don't have to give up a drink, or you could find that something others find to be blood glucose benign are rocket fuel for you.

I don't know if you keep a food diary, but if you don't, please keep a food diary, so that you can easily look backwards to review your progress in line with several days (or weeks) "performance".

I'm quite a passionate data monster, but that's me.
Good luck with it all

 

[Alexandra100]

Ok so I'll start doing more testing late at night.
But I don't see what more I can do as far as my diet is concerened.
If I eat any less I may as well be on a low fat low calorie diet from the 70s.


Done that many times and it doesn't work long term.
After watching Fong's video's and reading his book, I thought it was the answer to all my dreams.
Eat enough to be satified and not hungry a couple of hours later.
Bring your blood glucose level down and lose loads of weight.
I know from this forum that plenty of people say it works.
But for me, right at this moment it seems like a load of ********.
So depressed with it. Trying my best and getting nowhere.

I'll stop the drink on Saturday and test more.
But if nothing changes in 2 weeks time I'll be going back to the foods I enjoyed eating before I discovered I was type2.

I see no sense in feeling miserable and having no energy all the time.

I totally agree with your last remark! I am about the least experienced person on this forum, but like you I am struggling to reconcile exercise and (in my case) an intake of carbs that is hovering around, sometimes under 100 per day. (Which is very low for me and is currently leaving me feeling weak.) One thing I have learned here is that everyone is different, and what works for Dr Fung or whoever won't necessarily work for you or me. I differ from most other people who have responded to your post, in that your food intake strikes me as very low given the amount and nature of exercise you are doing. I know lots of people report cutting their carbs and calories and upping their exercise with great results. However, Jenny Ruhl in her excellent book "Your Diabetes Questions Answered" warns against trying to cut carbs AND calories at the same time.
Sress can make bg rise. Maybe your body experiences your diet plus exercise regime as stressful. Maybe being a bit gentler with yourself might just have better results? Just wondering!

 

[Mark_1]

an intake of carbs that is hovering around, sometimes under 100 per day. (Which is very low for me and is currently leaving me feeling weak.)!

I’m not surprised. This isn’t LCHF. It’s too many carbs to become fat adapted so to say it doesn’t work when your not actually doing it isn’t really fair.

 

[Alexandra100]

I’m not surprised. This isn’t LCHF. It’s too many carbs to become fat adapted so to say it doesn’t work when your not actually doing it isn’t really fair.

I didn't say I was doing LCHF, nor did I say LCHF doesn't work, though I did respond to the thread with that title. I was at pains to say that under 100 carbs daily is low FOR ME. Personally, I don't think it's the best idea for ME to go straight from a "normal" diabetes oblivious diet consisting among other things of a lot of fruit and milk, to the other extreme of LCHF. Also LCHF is clearly more difficult for people like me who have vegetarian tendencies. But this was not what I was talking about.

I very much appreciate this forum, it's a real life saver. I also think it is a pity that it seems to be dominated by aggressive born again LCHFers. I much prefer the gentler, more co-operative approach to be found in the vegan/vegetarian section. Can the myth that meat eaters are more aggressive really be true???

 

[badcat]

Under 100g carbs per day is the definition of low carb
V low carb is under 50g
Ketogenic is under 20g

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Under 100g carbs per day is the definition of low carb
V low carb is under 50g
Ketogenic is under 20g

Reference?

 

[Oldvatr]

I didn't say I was doing LCHF, nor did I say LCHF doesn't work, though I did respond to the thread with that title. I was at pains to say that under 100 carbs daily is low FOR ME. Personally, I don't think it's the best idea for ME to go straight from a "normal" diabetes oblivious diet consisting among other things of a lot of fruit and milk, to the other extreme of LCHF. Also LCHF is clearly more difficult for people like me who have vegetarian tendencies. But this was not what I was talking about.

I very much appreciate this forum, it's a real life saver. I also think it is a pity that it seems to be dominated by aggressive born again LCHFers. I much prefer the gentler, more co-operative approach to be found in the vegan/vegetarian section. Can the myth that meat eaters are more aggressive really be true???

When I started LCHF, I kept my carbs to between 80 and 100 g/day. My bgl dropped lovely, and I lost a bit of weight, but not much. Then I bit the bullet, and dropped my carbs and reached for the ketostix. Within a couple of days, my weight plummeted, and I had to raise my carbs again. This showed me a simple way to control my weight which works for me. Drop a slice of toast. and lose weight, add the toast stop losing weight. I also juggle my fat intake by adding in double cream when I drop the toast, and it works a treat. I have maintained my ideal weight at 67kg within +/- 1kg for the past year.