Reversing insulin resistance in mice

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Did anyone see this study in the news this week:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/biotech/sd-me-diabetes-exosomes-20170919-story.html

Thought it was really interesting - though of course the step from mice to humans is a loooong road!

Interesting stuff,

The next step will be to see if by any chance using industrial seed oils to cook industrially produced carbohyrdates might just happen to create disproportional micro RNA in human exosomes and thus trigger higher insulin responses and eventually insulin resistance.

My money would be on yup -

I already know that when I eat a processed carb cooked in an industrial seed oil - e.g. a biscuit - I get a higher glucose repsonse for the same amount of carbs as I do when I eat carrots roasted in goose fat.

So I hope the research reaches a satisfactory conclusion sometime over the next 20 years. In the meantime I won't be waiting for the relevant expensive drug, instead I will stick to solving the same problem with a real food diet avoiding industrial seed oils !
 
  • Like
Reactions: KimWheeler

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
What's an industrial seed oil? I kind of like grape seed oil, sunflower seed oil, mustard seed oil, and a couple others. Don't like how flaxseed oil acts with my bod. But far as I know, all those are real seed oils

The top four vegetable oils consumed in the United States are soybean, canola, palm, and corn oil. These are referred to as refined, bleached, deodorized oils – or RBD for short – because this describes the process by which they are manufactured.
In my book these are industrial seed oils .

When I am in a supermarket I count industrial seed oils as
the cheap stuff used to make processed products nearly all of which will contain the above. or its european equivalent
cheap supermarket oils such as canola , vegetable oils,corn oil mazola, including cheap olive oils, and sunflower oils.
and the " healthy processed products - crisp n dry, "fry light butter flavour cooking spray", margerines light spreads, cholesterol lowering packets of anything , flora , benecol , I can't beleive its so good light spread

I would put cold pressed quality oils in a different category - things to be enjoyed as flavourings to my favorite foods.

My personal mantra is that if I can see how I might get oil out of it, because it feels oily to me- then I'm ok to use it as an oil if the oil has been cold pressed. So for me that would be olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil . I can't say I've ever explored pressing sunflowers, mustard seeds , flax or sesame seeds to get the same result however I can see how that might work and as I happily eat most of these things raw, I wouldn't be too concerned about having a bit in my diet to taste.

Personally I would be very careful to try to limit the total volume of omega 6 polyunsaturated fats in my diet , from whatever source . The research suggests that one should try to eat 1:1 omega 3 to omega 6 oils . Its something to do with some of the bad qualities of omega 6 being absorbed by the good in Omega 3 ( though I can't pretend to know the details of the research )

Its actually quite hard to achieve a balance unless you actually like for example cod liver oil, and you eat quite a lot of oily fish.

A standard diet including processed food these days can be as much as 1: 20 / 30 omega 3 to omega 6 .
I find I can get to 1:3 ish fairly easily using real foods but it takes a lot of conscious thinking about it .

So for me I eat real foods - butter, duck and goose fat, lard coconut oil, and olive and avocado oils and give the rest a miss, other than the occasional splash of a specialised oil such as sesame for flavour. I hope that helps !
 
  • Like
Reactions: KimWheeler

Anthony1738

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Boom Boom Club Music (cant see the point its not Music) Moto GP and Manchester United
The top four vegetable oils consumed in the United States are soybean, canola, palm, and corn oil. These are referred to as refined, bleached, deodorized oils – or RBD for short – because this describes the process by which they are manufactured.
In my book these are industrial seed oils .

When I am in a supermarket I count industrial seed oils as
the cheap stuff used to make processed products nearly all of which will contain the above. or its european equivalent
cheap supermarket oils such as canola , vegetable oils,corn oil mazola, including cheap olive oils, and sunflower oils.
and the " healthy processed products - crisp n dry, "fry light butter flavour cooking spray", margerines light spreads, cholesterol lowering packets of anything , flora , benecol , I can't beleive its so good light spread

I would put cold pressed quality oils in a different category - things to be enjoyed as flavourings to my favorite foods.

My personal mantra is that if I can see how I might get oil out of it, because it feels oily to me- then I'm ok to use it as an oil if the oil has been cold pressed. So for me that would be olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil . I can't say I've ever explored pressing sunflowers, mustard seeds , flax or sesame seeds to get the same result however I can see how that might work and as I happily eat most of these things raw, I wouldn't be too concerned about having a bit in my diet to taste.

Hi Cherry,

I really like your posts, always informative and knowledgeable, I think your status needs upgrading to "expert"

Personally I would be very careful to try to limit the total volume of omega 6 polyunsaturated fats in my diet , from whatever source . The research suggests that one should try to eat 1:1 omega 3 to omega 6 oils . Its something to do with some of the bad qualities of omega 6 being absorbed by the good in Omega 3 ( though I can't pretend to know the details of the research )

Its actually quite hard to achieve a balance unless you actually like for example cod liver oil, and you eat quite a lot of oily fish.

A standard diet including processed food these days can be as much as 1: 20 / 30 omega 3 to omega 6 .
I find I can get to 1:3 ish fairly easily using real foods but it takes a lot of conscious thinking about it .

So for me I eat real foods - butter, duck and goose fat, lard coconut oil, and olive and avocado oils and give the rest a miss, other than the occasional splash of a specialised oil such as sesame for flavour. I hope that helps !
 

Anthony1738

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Boom Boom Club Music (cant see the point its not Music) Moto GP and Manchester United
Ooops, my reply ended up half way through your Post, Sorry!

I was just saying your post are always informative and knowledgeable and I like reading them alot, and your status should be upgraded to expert!
 

DavidGrahamJones

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,263
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Newspapers
Thought it was really interesting

It was interesting. I have always felt, although never had empirical evidence that for some, but not all, being overweight wasn't all down to food intake. So long as I've read it correctly, and it's what I've read in other places, when insulin resistance rears it's ugly head then the pancreas will make more insulin and you're more prone to store fat.
 

tim2000s

Expert
Retired Moderator
Messages
8,934
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Other
The top four vegetable oils consumed in the United States are soybean, canola, palm, and corn oil.
One might also question the importance of GM in this context, as both Canola and Soybean in the US have been the focus of GM protest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KimWheeler

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
It was interesting. I have always felt, although never had empirical evidence that for some, but not all, being overweight wasn't all down to food intake. So long as I've read it correctly, and it's what I've read in other places, when insulin resistance rears it's ugly head then the pancreas will make more insulin and you're more prone to store fat.

The conclusion I am currently leaning towards, having watched how my libre works, is that for some reason, polyunsaturated fats when heated to cook refined carbohydrates probably contains something that disrupts our signalling system and causes a much bigger insulin release than natural foods do for the same carb content. Over time that additional insulin creates insulin resistance and thus the vicious cycle is born

This effect is then compounded by the fact that due to modern " forced " agriculture many fruits and vegetables have more starches and sugars than their ancestors would have had and the human body is simply not designed to have that load in it. That itself then contributes to the insulin overload.

Insulin overload then drives metabolic disruption which is why hyperinsulinaemia is implicated in so many diseases

All of this is hidden from us in terms of our blood glucose for a long time , until it finally spills over into diabetes.
When anyone adopts a low carb diet, either in percentage terms ( LCHF, paleo, mediterrranean) or absolute grams ( VLC, Newcastle diet, intermittent fasting) then they are naturally starting to reverse this insulin overload problem whether diagnosed with diabetes or not.

Given that the subject of this post is mice......
Forced agriculture is probably also why for example zoo animals are getting fatter, at the same time as the human race is because they are like wise not adapted to cope with the sugar load. Fortunately for animals the effect is slower because we do not tend to feed them food which has been very highly processed. Unless of course they are our much loved pets in which case we poison them just like we do ourselves with the processed foods we give them - hence rapidly riing rates of diabetes in both dogs and cats

https://petplanetmagazine.com/blog/diabetes-in-dogs-and-cats-is-also-on-the-rise/

I am currently trying to " wean" my cats off the branded products. I cannot get them to eat real foods at all. having been brought up inside, they have zero interest in meat or fish. The only real foods I can't leave on a counter is prawns. Instead I have bought varieties that are supposed to be less processed and lower carb- they don't like them much - they much prefer the processed pap - just like humans !
 

DavidGrahamJones

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,263
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Newspapers
polyunsaturated fats when heated to cook refined carbohydrates probably contains something

I note that even olive oil is about 11% polyunsaturated fat. I've been pretty careful with the use of fat in cooking for a long time although I can't be certain.

hence rapidly rising rates of diabetes in both dogs and cats

I must confess that I'd never given it a thought and when I read how much of an increase since 2011, I was shocked. I'm as daft as a brush when it comes to animals, probably like them more than some (I wonder how many) humans. We've got a rescue cat who has some psychological issues because she wasn't humanised in the first ten months of her life. I shall be looking at her diet more carefully and she might have to have one of those collars that says "DO NOT FEED".
 
  • Like
Reactions: CherryAA

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Ooops, my reply ended up half way through your Post, Sorry!

I was just saying your post are always informative and knowledgeable and I like reading them alot, and your status should be upgraded to expert!

Thank you :) I have no clue what constitutes being an expert, but I suspect it requires rather longer experience of being diagnosed diabetic that I am:) thanks for the compliment though., I am a voracious reader and I do feel like I have read way more about health and nutrition in the last year than any sane person. I'm happy to pass on what I found out so far in so far as it might prove helpful to others,. I would caution you to bear in mind that my opinions are coloured by my personal belief systems ( as are everyone else 's ) and actually at this point in the morning rather a large quantity of red wine and whisky! so please be sure to read up yourself too. As a person who today spent more than two hours trying to cycle from A to B which were a maximum of 20 minutes apart, I confirm that whilst my instincts are often pretty good, they have been known be entirely wrong.

I console myself with the knowledge that an extra 90 minutes plus cycling made it a good dieting day
 

Anthony1738

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Boom Boom Club Music (cant see the point its not Music) Moto GP and Manchester United
Thank you :) I have no clue what constitutes being an expert, but I suspect it requires rather longer experience of being diagnosed diabetic that I am:) thanks for the compliment though., I am a voracious reader and I do feel like I have read way more about health and nutrition in the last year than any sane person. I'm happy to pass on what I found out so far in so far as it might prove helpful to others,. I would caution you to bear in mind that my opinions are coloured by my personal belief systems ( as are everyone else 's ) and actually at this point in the morning rather a large quantity of red wine and whisky! so please be sure to read up yourself too. As a person who today spent more than two hours trying to cycle from A to B which were a maximum of 20 minutes apart, I confirm that whilst my instincts are often pretty good, they have been known be entirely wrong.

I console myself with the knowledge that an extra 90 minutes plus cycling made it a good dieting day

Yes I agree, I am too a profilic reader and aim to learn as much about this condition as I can. When I read the reports coming out Newcastle University and watched Roy Taylors various presentations it made complete sense to me to literally starve this diabetes out of my body on a Low Carb, Low everything diet and it worked for me, but Im not done there I need to learn alot more.
 

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Yes I agree, I am too a profilic reader and aim to learn as much about this condition as I can. When I read the reports coming out Newcastle University and watched Roy Taylors various presentations it made complete sense to me to literally starve this diabetes out of my body on a Low Carb, Low everything diet and it worked for me, but Im not done there I need to learn alot more.

You have great results so far ( better than me :) ) congratulations!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anthony1738

Anthony1738

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Boom Boom Club Music (cant see the point its not Music) Moto GP and Manchester United
You have great results so far ( better than me :) ) congratulations!


Thank You,

Its all down to Low Carb, Excersise and Fasting, plus limited alcohol intake (which was the big problem before).
 

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Thank You,

Its all down to Low Carb, Excersise and Fasting, plus limited alcohol intake (which was the big problem before).

I don't drink much anyway ( except last night ! ) I'm thinking that the fasting might be a good idea today, mainly because I just want to go back to bed :)
 

Anthony1738

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Boom Boom Club Music (cant see the point its not Music) Moto GP and Manchester United
I don't drink much anyway ( except last night ! ) I'm thinking that the fasting might be a good idea today, mainly because I just want to go back to bed :)
Yes the fasting is a great idea, why?, because when you are eating (and it dosent matter what) your body is in "Go Go mode" your liver is producing glucose, (Glucogeneis) so to stop this happening you must fast, when you are not eating it gives the metabolism a rest, and in a nutshell, your body goes in to self preservation mode, and the growth hormones stop trying to repair cells, instead it produces new onea, I hope, if I understand Dr Jason Fung's lectures correctly, but as I said I am no expert but I do like studying.