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So confused....apologies for long first post

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Nanny_B, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. daisy1

    daisy1 Type 2 · Guru
    Staff Member Retired Moderator

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    @Nanny_B

    Hello and welcome to the forum :) As mentioned above, here is the basic information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.


    BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

    Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

    A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 147,000 people who are demonstrating this.

    On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

    The role of carbohydrate

    Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

    If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

    The bad news

    Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

    The good news

    People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

    Controlling your carbs

    The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

    There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
    • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
    • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
    Reduce your carbohydrates

    A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

    The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

    Choosing better carbohydrates

    The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

    Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

    Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

    Eating what works for you

    Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

    To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

    The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

    Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
    • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
    However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

    Access to blood glucose test strips

    The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

    • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
    • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

    Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

    You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

    Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

    Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. They're all free.
    • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why :)
    • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
     
  2. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My numbers pretty much mirrored yours on diagnosis, the improvements are set out below. I pretty much follow the diet guidelines set out in dietdoctor.com and I don't avoid saturatd fats ! 53lbs down so far :)

    "

    No potato, bread, rice, pasta, anything packaged, flour, sweets, sugar, No polyunsaturated vegetables oils or milk.
    Plenty of natural fats - lard, butter goose and duck fat, cream, bacon & eggs , full fat mayonnaise and cheeses with above ground vegetables plus 10g onion per serving, cold pressed virgin olive and nut oils , avocados, above ground vegetables , all types of fatty meats including fat and skin, offals, prawn , crab , salmon and other fish ( 60-80g servings) , and nuts and nut oils ( 10 g servings) macadamia, brazil, walnuts, pecan, almonds, hazelnuts and nut oils , sunflower, chia, flax, hemp seeds ( 5g servings on top of many dishes) balsamic and other vinegars. above ground vegetables (max 100g servings plus 5g butter), butter creamed cauliflower and broccoli mash as a replacement for potatoes, cauliflower rice, fresh spinach as a replacement for bread, Bullet proof coffee with butter, MCT oil and cream ( one small percolator per day spread on hunger) ,within an overall calorie goal of circa 1250, under 30g carbs and under 70g protein ( i.e. 100g total)

    12 wks ave cal 1305, fat 62% 92 g, protein 21% 68g , carb12% 28g net of 13g fibre, 5% whisky. 1kg per week .
    Fat content 92g made up of 30g saturated, 38g mono 3g omega 3 , 13g omega 6 and 1 g transfats .(using cronometer - fats don't add - I don't know why - its what cronometer gives me!)"
     
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  3. achike

    achike Type 2 · Member

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    Nancy_B please reconfirm that your glycated haemoglobin HbA1c is a super high 97 before I can give further advice.

    Meanwhile take it easy as you have joined a good forum.
    1. Cut off all saturated oils and fats.
    2. Go on low carb diet.
    3. Eat lots of cruciferous vegetables, fruits and nuts.
    4. Diet portion control.
    5. Moderate exercise.
    6. Avoid processed foods.
    7. Drink a lot of still bottled or filtered water.
    8. Drink alcohol in moderation or cut it off if you lack control.
    9. No smoking all your life.
    10. Control your blood pressure and blood cholesterol aggressively with appropriate medications.
    Good luck.
     
  4. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I disagree-with point 1.

    I don't think there is any no need to cut off all saturated oils and fats - that dramatically restricts food choices and doesn't appear to be necessary at least for some. I started off pretty much in the same position as this person 5 months ago.

    I have managed to lose 53 lbs, cut blood sugar dramatically and improve all metabolic markers including cholesterol, LDL and triglycerides using LCHF (60% fat) positively embracing saturated fats in preference to other types with no medication at all. There is a lot of evidence that the vilification of saturated fats is not necessary and indeed may be counterproductive. On the other hand polyunsaturated fats - such as processed corn oils and other seed oils- seem to be best avoided .
     
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  5. achike

    achike Type 2 · Member

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    The advice I gave is standard based on research but as Type 2 diabetes is a complex condition what works for you might NOT work for another.

    Moreover, the dynamics of our internal systems differs. When Nancy_B stabilizes she could experiment and use BG monitoring to see if saturated oils and fats appropriate for her like you.
     
  6. DevonVee

    DevonVee Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Nanny B
    I have just been told I am type 2 after 25 years of struggling withPCOS and insulin resistance. Told to eat low GI carbs after I had gestational diabetes 12 years ago. Did all that. No weight loss and now gone into Type 2. Put on Metformin ordinary and SR and have had explosive diarrhoea. Stopped last week and am now trying to go LCHF. HAVE LOST SOME WEIGHT! I know it sounds mad but when you look at the biology it does make sense. There was a tv programme on BBC where he did the diet and lost a stone. On iPlayer. I have bought my own testing strips to see which carbs I can tolerate best.
    Doubt I will get them on prescription. What are the cheapest does anyone know?
     
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  7. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 · Oracle

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    @DevonVee

    Currently the cheapest strips are the Codefree. It is very popular on here for that reason.

    Try here for the Codefree meter
    http://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/blood-glucose-monitor/

    and here for the extra strips
    http://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

    Pharmacies don't sell them. There are discount codes if you buy in bulk and don’t forget to check the box that you have diabetes so you can buy VAT free.
    5 packs 264086
    10 packs 975833
     
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  8. DevonVee

    DevonVee Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you . I have already spent about £100 trying to check. Much cheaper option. I am seeing diabetes nurse on Friday to get shouted at probably for stopping metformin but I have 2 kids and cannot manage with diarrhoea.
     
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  9. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I would not worry about the meformin too much at this stage.

    If you follow a strict low carb diet, like I did, then there is every chance that your numbers will improve without the medication just like mine did. You can then revisit the meds later if necessary. With the codefree metre you will be able to tell pretty quickly if things are moving in the right direction or not. good luck !
     
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  10. calmic5701

    calmic5701 Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hi Nanny_B when you take your BG take the sample from the side of your finger tip as this is less sensitive. Make sure you wash your hands well before as I have found that even small amounts of fat / grease can affect your Bg readings.
    Good luck
     
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  11. Nanny_B

    Nanny_B Type 2 · Active Member

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  12. Nanny_B

    Nanny_B Type 2 · Active Member

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    Oops sorry Achike yes it was 97!
     
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  13. Energize

    Energize Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There are a few points I don't agree on here, I'm afraid, achike, particularly in the way you state them as a 'given'

    1. As previously pointed out, it seems saturated oils and fats are not necessarily as 'bad' as we have been told.

    3. I would suggest being very careful re fruits, as many are high in Fructose (sugar). 'Berries' are less likely to raise glucose levels as much as other fruits. Tropical fruts tend to be higher Fructose. Only by testing can one learn how a particular fruit affects one. Every person is likely to be different.

    Also, vegetables also have carbohydrate content so, again, testing will determine which vegetables are better tolerated.

    5. Yes, if possible, some exercise may help the Insulin Resistance

    7. In my opinion, bottled / filtered water is not necessary. Ordinary tap water is absolutely fine. Hard water adds some benefits, as far as I understand. All down to personal preference but not obligatory

    9. Certainly smoking is not advisable but, again, many have other issues which take priority so may be unable to stop smoking, at least for the time being.

    10. I don't agree that blood pressure, nor cholestrol, needs 'agressive' control. The GP should have this in hand, if necessary. Regarding cholestrol medications, ie statins, many choose not to take statins and also many, including myself, do not agree with NICE guidelines saying that ALL diabetics should be taking them. LCHF will often improve cholestrol levels and cholestrol is in our bodies for a reason so it's not necessarily good to have them artificially lowered.

    We all have a choice as to how we manage our diabetes and medications, hopefully with an informed choice and discussion with the doctor. It's not set in stone!

    You don't mention where you have got this 'advice' from and much of the research undertaken which the NHS have taken on board is considered, by so many, to be 'flawed' so I would suggest you take this comment with a pinch of salt and do further research.

    Having said all that, I appreciate your advice is well-intentioned and, in most, I would agree with. :)
     
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  14. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can work out all you need to worry about is carbs, balancing what you can eat and be happy about it, and trans-fats which you should avoid entirely - oh, and apparently sunflower oil is not as good for you as had been thought. I avoid things over 10 percent carbs so I can eat enough - except for grapes which I should restrict but show a distinctly worrying lack of self control when faced with a box of huge black grapes, but it could be worse. All the healthy eating information I have had from the diabetes advice dietician seems to be likely to kill rather than cure.
     
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  15. AndyPoulton

    AndyPoulton Type 2 · Newbie

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    Surely it's calories that make people fat, no matter how they come in to the body? The body is just a machine and we use energy to keep us alive and energy use is measured by the calories we consume. I was always taught (much simplified) that a calorie is simply being a measure of energy contained in a given food or drink.

    So, if we consume more calories than we use then the excess is saved as fat and if we burn more calories than we consume then the energy deficit is filled by burning calories that the body has stored and so we'll lose weight.

    The big problem is that portion sizes have grown and lifestyles have become more sedentary and so the oft quoted figures of average calories required per day is over stated.

    A pond of fat contains 3,500 calories so that's how many calories extra calories you have to burn to lose 1lb in weight
     
  16. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That a calorie is a calorie is not what I found. My doctor had me eating a very low calorie diet, under 1000 calories a day and I was not losing weight so he wanted to put it even lower, and soon after that I rebelled because I couldn't do anything as I was so feeble.
    I tried altering the make up of what I ate to include fewer carbs, and straight away began to lose weight. I could happily eat far more calories and be losing weight every day. I read that many of Dr Atkins patients experienced the same thing, when I eventually found the book 'New diet revolution' which he wrote. As for exercise - a great way to become ravenously hungry.
    When I am eating low carb I find that I radiate heat, and feel energetic, I go out of the house more and walk further - even on cold days as it affects me less. There can't be negative calories, but it certainly feels like it.
    I know that I cannot substitute carbs from more starchy foods for lighter ones and still lose weight at the same rate - 5gm of beans are more than 5gm of celery for instance - when it comes to adding up the totals. There is something else going on which has been ridiculed for a long time, but successful weight loss and incidentally blood glucose control is involved.
     
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    #36 Resurgam, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:32 PM
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  17. kittypoker

    kittypoker Friend · Well-Known Member

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    On the surface, this seems to make sense. But if, to put it at its most extreme, I ate 1000 calories a day of Mars bars, I'd undoubtedly lose weight but it's not sustainable. I'd be ravenously hungry all the time because I'd be in a constant state of blood sugar highs, release of insulin to deal with them, then crashes before starting the whole cycle over again. For a T2 diabetic, good blood sugar control would be all but impossible.

    Since all carbohydrates turn into sugar in the blood, it seems much more logical to keep them down and replace with dietary fat (which doesn't spike blood sugar levels). It's perfectly possible to maintain a calorie deficit with a low carb, high fat diet. In fact portion control, and fasting if liked, is very much easier because of the lack of hunger. Fats are filling and satisfying. :)
     
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  18. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nope. www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/success-stories
     
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  19. CarbsRok

    CarbsRok Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    If you haven't got an exemption certificate make sure you get your Doctor to fill in the correct forms for you so that one can be issued. Having diabetes doesn't automatically mean free prescriptions unless you have the certificate. Obviously if you live in Wales or Scotland this doesn't apply or being over 60. :)
     
  20. Nanny_B

    Nanny_B Type 2 · Active Member

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    I h
    I have one, it arrived in the post today!
     
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