Two questions only.

[Mikimisko]

Hello, I am interested is the same rule, when you are diabetic T-2, with extra weight and with no weight to spare, because all I am reading it is concentrated only, for people with extra weight, never any word about skinny people and with T-2.
Second & last question, it's valid point about LC-for diabetes, but what's happening with other half of diet HF- when you have also heigh CHOLESTEROL?
Thank you very much, if you can somehow clarifie for me, because Iam in real dilemma.

 

[Juicyj]

Hello @Mikimisko Welcome to the forum - can you please explain more about what your dilemma is, just trying to understand your questions and what your looking for ?

 

[Guzzler]

Your first question applies to me. Not all people who are diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes are overweight. We are called TOFI that is Thin on the Outside Fat on the Inside. We must try our best to lose the 'hidden fat' that surrounds our internal organs.

As for your second question, well that is harder. Cholesterol is a thorny issue. My own personal view on cholesterol is that I don't worry about it. Many Type 2s initially have high cholesterol levels but they get better on a low carb diet, for others it seems that genetics plays a part and there's not a lot at the moment that can be done about that.
I am sure that you will get many opinions on this, ultimately you will have to make your own choices on the matter. Best of luck.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

From what I have learned there are two possible ways that skinny people can exhibit the symptoms of Type 2 diabetes. One way is that there are a group of people who are born without any fat cells. If you eat too much glucose and can't use it then the conventional thing is for the spare to be converted to triglycerides which are put into the fat cells. If you don't have any fat cells then it looks like insulin resistance. According to Dr Kendrick, everyone with no fat cells are diabetic.

Secondly the foods that cause subcutaneous fat and those that cause visceral fat are different. Visceral fat is what causes the liver to fail in its duty. The foods that cause visceral fat are fructose and alcohol so it is a good idea to stop eating them.

There is a misconception about HF. It does not mean high added fat. It really means that there is no point in going out of your way to avoid it. Have full fat milk, eggs and yogurt if you wish since it will not harm you. It can also assist in weight loss so if you are already skinny you don't have that problem.

Cholesterol is also not the problem it was. It is said that the body manufactures 80% of your cholesterol and if you eat some then the body provides less to compensate. There has never been a link proved between high cholesterol and heart disease anyway. There have been a number of studies showing that more people die with low cholesterol.

 

[Tony337]

Hello and welcome.
I am type 1 and the right weight according to my BMI.
You are underweight with high cholesterol so are wondering what type of diet to follow.
Is this correct?
You have been reading about Low Carb High Fat diet but you think that is aimed at people who are overweight?
I won't say anything else in case I am wrong and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Good luck
Tony

 

[pavlosn]

I have inherited high cholesterol for which I take two types of medication.

My best ever results were achieved when I was on a reduced carb diet, while not worrying about fat consumption. I was not consciously adding extra fat just choosing full fat rather than light version of dairy etc. As it is being Cypriot we tend to consume quite a bid of olive oil.

Without being technical and in very simplistic terms, I understand that the reason for this is that without carbs to draw on for energy the body burns fats, resulting in reduced cholesterol and in particular triglycerides.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I found the Kendrick quote

"First we can look at the least obese people in the world. Those unfortunates who have a condition called ‘Beradinelli-Siep generalised lipodystrophy’. In this condition you have no fat cells – at all. So, of course, the rate of type II diabetes in these people would be zero…right? Wrong, the rate of type II diabetes is 100%."

And here is the blog entry I took it from.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/01/23/thinking-about-obesity-and-diabetes/

 

[Guzzler]

From what I have learned there are two possible ways that skinny people can exhibit the symptoms of Type 2 diabetes. One way is that there are a group of people who are born without any fat cells. If you eat too much glucose and can't use it then the conventional thing is for the spare to be converted to triglycerides which are put into the fat cells. If you don't have any fat cells then it looks like insulin resistance. According to Dr Kendrick, everyone with no fat cells are diabetic.

Secondly the foods that cause subcutaneous fat and those that cause visceral fat are different. Visceral fat is what causes the liver to fail in its duty. The foods that cause visceral fat are fructose and alcohol so it is a good idea to stop eating them.

There is a misconception about HF. It does not mean high added fat. It really means that there is no point in going out of your way to avoid it. Have full fat milk, eggs and yogurt if you wish since it will not harm you. It can also assist in weight loss so if you are already skinny you don't have that problem.

Cholesterol is also not the problem it was. It is said that the body manufactures 80% of your cholesterol and if you eat some then the body provides less to compensate. There has never been a link proved between high cholesterol and heart disease anyway. There have been a number of studies showing that more people die with low cholesterol.

While I agree with you on cholesterol I am not convinced about TOFI. I am slim but still lost a stone in my first month on LCHF. I have been tee total for over twenty five years so alcohol was not an issue. I was never a big fruit eater at the best of times. I am slowly coming around to the idea that genetics and diet as a catalyst may have been responsible but what part each played and to what extent is still up in the air.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

While I agree with you on cholesterol I am not convinced about TOFI. I am slim but still lost a stone in my first month on LCHF. I have been tee total for over twenty five years so alcohol was not an issue. I was never a big fruit eater at the best of times. I am slowly coming around to the idea that genetics and diet as a catalyst may have been responsible but what part each played and to what extent is still up in the air.

I wasn't going on about TOFI in particular but was answering the OP in general terms but since you bring it up. If you are slim but still managed to lose a stone are you noticeably thinner or did you lose visceral fat.

The reason I ask is since you have such a stunning result with your Hba1c it suggests that you have got on top of your diabetes somehow. Fructose does not only come in fruit. 50% of table sugar is fructose and high fructose corn syrup is used in many foods and drinks. I suspect that something you gave up to achieve your results is pleasing your liver.

 

[Guzzler]

I wasn't going on about TOFI in particular but was answering the OP in general terms but since you bring it up. If you are slim but still managed to lose a stone are you noticeably thinner or did you lose visceral fat.

The reason I ask is since you have such a stunning result with your Hba1c it suggests that you have got on top of your diabetes somehow. Fructose does not only come in fruit. 50% of table sugar is fructose and high fructose corn syrup is used in many foods and drinks. I suspect that something you gave up to achieve your results is pleasing your liver.

Thank you, as you can see I am still in learning mode and forgot about the sucrose/fructose combo. I love this group, so much knowledge. Now if only my memory was better...

 

[Pinkorchid]

I lost quite a bit of weight when I went low carb after diagnosis I have never weighed more than 8st 5lb in my life so loosing more weight was not good news and I really struggled to stop loosing more and having extra fat...which I did not like.. did not help with that. I really don't eat red meat and all the full fat stuff I found was to rich for me so I went back to the lower fat option My weight has stabilised now and I have gained a couple of pounds recently but still under 8 stone My doctor has said it is a mystery why I have T2 I am 78 and healthy in every other way my mobility is good and no other illnesses

 

[Pinkorchid]

If you are slim but still managed to lose a stone are you noticeably thinner or did you lose visceral fat.

Well I was always very slim so when I lost weight that I did not need to I certainly was very noticeably thinner

 

[Guzzler]

I wasn't going on about TOFI in particular but was answering the OP in general terms but since you bring it up. If you are slim but still managed to lose a stone are you noticeably thinner or did you lose visceral fat.

The reason I ask is since you have such a stunning result with your Hba1c it suggests that you have got on top of your diabetes somehow. Fructose does not only come in fruit. 50% of table sugar is fructose and high fructose corn syrup is used in many foods and drinks. I suspect that something you gave up to achieve your results is pleasing your liver.

Not really noticably thinner but over the course of the months that followed the weight loss my body shape changed a little which leaves me stumped.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Well I was always very slim so when I lost weight that I did not need to I certainly was very noticeably thinner

I was pursuing an issue with @Guzzler so I suspect there are other cases.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Not really noticably thinner but over the course of the months that followed the weight loss my body shape changed a little which leaves me stumped.

So you lost a stone and was not noticeably thinner. I think there is a clue there. The lost stone was possibly not subcutaneous fat. The body shape changed a little probably in a pleasing way I guess. You are a success story. I can't wait to hear your next Hba1c reading.

NB: I realise that this thread has been hi-jacked but since it is still on topic it should be of interest to the OP.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Well I was always very slim so when I lost weight that I did not need to I certainly was very noticeably thinner

Obviously you lost subcutaneous fat and so I doubt your results were as dramatic as @Guzzler but nevertheless I am sure they were quite an improvement.

 

[pleinster]

Neither fat on the outside or the inside caused my steroid induced diabetes. I never had an issue with weight until quite recently (where I have been left with what looks like a small pregnancy following a kidney transplant - booooo). The HF part of the diet is essential as your body will (hopefully) have less or no carbs to burn and should not cause weight gain without the carbs. In my experience, an LCHF diet will increase the "good cholesterol" (HDL) but, to be honest, I am more concerned about my blood sugar level right now. Not all diabetes is related to weight.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. If you are thin and have lost a lot of weight recently and unexpectedly then you are likely to be T1 (LADA) and not T2. Your blood sugar control will also be a guide. If in addition you are unable to control your blood sugar even with a low carb diet then that is an additional pointer to T1 and this can occur at any age. As others have said you can be thin but have a lot of internal fat and that would be classed as T2 and easier to control with a low-carb diet and Metformin. Don't worry about eating fat as the liver is where most cholesterol is produced and that will be from carbs and not fat.

 

[Jaylee]

While I agree with you on cholesterol I am not convinced about TOFI. I am slim but still lost a stone in my first month on LCHF. I have been tee total for over twenty five years so alcohol was not an issue. I was never a big fruit eater at the best of times. I am slowly coming around to the idea that genetics and diet as a catalyst may have been responsible but what part each played and to what extent is still up in the air.

Hi,

Now oddly enough my dad was T2 & not a big fruit eater. Packed in the booze for about 30 years?
Though unfortunately felt he was doing just fine taking the metformin.. He had a "mini stroke" which he recovered from..
He was meant to be retired at 65 but kept finding work as a slim fit young for his age pensioner...
(So far be it for me to interfere with another D.)
But then developed signs of vascular dementia a few years later? (Long scary story involving forgetting how to drive a car.)
My mum became his carer for the last 8/9 years of his life with my help. Cut his carbs by 60%? When I found out his diet wasn't helping his BS..
He was even fortunate enough to be prescribed a meter & repeat scrypt for strips..
Though my mum needed help with the meter use, as the last time she had to test a diabetic it was with a pee test kit on me as a kid...
His doctor pulled him off met when his A1c dropped. Which I can only acount for the carb cutting..
Wish it had happened earlier, as aforementioned. Far be it for me to interfere with another D...

The carb cut was my instinct regarding his diet bassed on knowing what works for me! (Or not.)
I only joined this forum after his death, he was 86. Just to find out if I did the "right thing" by a T2 on Metformin...
I found this forum on a smartphone the night I sat with him while he was dying, looking for some answers that "held back" by his HCPs..

So ginetics? Who knows... Just stay in control with what's working for you. & don't skimp on the meter use...