Dr Mosley and the diet that reverses type 2 diabetes.

[runner2009]

On the other hand, imagine you're a type 2 that followed the standard NHS advice, your type 2 gets progressively worse, you get diabetes complications, then are on insulin. THEN you find out there was a 70% chance you could have avoided all that just by changing your diet.

Or going on both an aggressive insulin regime and diet in the first place to give your dying and worn out beta cells a rest and time to recover - oh but no can't do that because first of all its way too expensive, patients don't like it, and the risk of hypos too great ( the law of small numbers )

 

[runner2009]

We have had a few people posting here who have been told, absolutely, that if they loose enough weight, they can be D free.

I remember one poster here who lost in excess of 4 stone, at the advice of her consultant.
The last time she posted, she had just returned from another appointment. Having starved herself for months, and been described as looking like a concentration camp victim. Her consultant shrugged, explained that sometimes weight loss doesn't work, and prescribed her some meds.

Usually the blanket promises come from hopeful dieters, not the professionals.
But it is worse when it is the professionals.

There is a biochemical and or neurotransmitter reason we struggle with our weight - its almost a universal problem based on a survival adaptation.

Look at our best friends, our dogs. If you keep your dogs weight low per the vets recommendation, what do you get? A thin dog who is hungry all the time licking up any morsel of food. Exactly like me

 

[meagainbutnotforlong]

Dogs can't motivate themselves as we can. I was told I had diabetes. I assumed I was going to die. That certainly motivated me.
I still believe the best treatment for many type 2s is cowardice.

 

[Simon84]

Dogs can't motivate themselves as we can. I was told I had diabetes. I assumed I was going to die. That certainly motivated me.
I still believe the best treatment for many type 2s is cowardice.

dont no about cowardice,,,,,at first i thought this is too difficult but reading around about nasty sh*t complications and not wanting them 2 made me change the **** i was eating

 

[runner2009]

dont no about cowardice,,,,,at first i thought this is too difficult but reading around about nasty sh*t complications and not wanting them 2 made me change the **** i was eating

I totally hear you. I never ate a lot of processed foods before being diagnosed 3-years ago. But I did eat a lot and tons and tons of fruit.

For the last 3-years I've been on different versions of low carb diet with no processed foods including pasta and bread.

I got 5-weeks into the ND before giving up. Lost a bunch of weight but BG didn't really change.

The low carb diets have ranged from consistent carb diet of 2-servings of carbs each meal, with no added oils, cheeses or meats, only fish, olives, and no fruits. I did the best on this weight wise.

Went to VLC diet and BG was awesome. Went to LCHFD and weight went up quickly as I hurt my back couldn't exercise and I was in insulin. That is when I tried ND.

The ND as I said I lost weight quickly but insulin was still needed.

Since the end of December, I've went back to low fat ( mostly polyunsaturated ), low carbs ( mostly veggies and some hummus ). Key being portion control and fasting 2-days a week ( fasting being ND ).

My go to meal is some cabbage 1/2 avocado covered with 3 poached eggs.

I'm losing weight again. The secret is portion control AND I've only used 6 units of insulin in the last 15 days.

Totally calories is under 1,700 a day. Fat is coming off inside of belly.

My glucose response is still compromised, but I definetly have secondary response now - maybe because of aggressive insulin therapy from the moment I was diagnosed.

Honestly, if I'm mindful and drink coffee with cream, I can get over the hunger. But if I am eating a chicken thigh with skin and salt in the back of my mind from some reptilian portion of my brain even before I'm finished eating what's in my hand, my thought are "how do I get some more"!!!

 

[AloeSvea]

Dogs can't motivate themselves as we can. I was told I had diabetes. I assumed I was going to die. That certainly motivated me.
I still believe the best treatment for many type 2s is cowardice.

Not sure what you mean by this. Explain a little bit more?

 

[meagainbutnotforlong]

Not sure what you mean by this. Explain a little bit more?

Runner2009 mentioned dogs appetite above.

 

[AloeSvea]

Runner2009 mentioned dogs appetite above.

Not the dogs thing! I mean about cowardice as a treatment for T2.

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm usually a Moseley fan but feel that he has exaggerated quite a bit here to sell his book (publicising it through the Daily Mail is another pet hate). Type 2's are now all going to be expected to be able to cure ourselves by following his 8 week diet.. That seems to be what he has said.. so if we don't manage that have we failed in some way? I think that in the eyes of Mail readers that may well be the case. As most of us here know the claims of "cures" are suspect and should not be relied upon.. yes we can take our condition into remission but be "cured" maybe for some but certainly not all. I haven't bought a copy of the book yet so may be misrepresenting what he has said but I must confess I clicked on the Mail website whilst on holiday and got quite angry about what was reported there. Would be interested to hear what people who have the book think and whether Moseley was misrepresented by the Mail or has got a bit full of himself following the success of 5:2. Thoughts?

 

[AloeSvea]

I'm usually a Moseley fan but feel that he has exaggerated quite a bit here to sell his book (publicising it through the Daily Mail is another pet hate). Type 2's are now all going to be expected to be able to cure ourselves by following his 8 week diet.. That seems to be what he has said.. so if we don't manage that have we failed in some way? I think that in the eyes of Mail readers that may well be the case. As most of us here know the claims of "cures" are suspect and should not be relied upon.. yes we can take our condition into remission but be "cured" maybe for some but certainly not all. I haven't bought a copy of the book yet so may be misrepresenting what he has said but I must confess I clicked on the Mail website whilst on holiday and got quite angry about what was reported there. Would be interested to hear what people who have the book think and whether Moseley was misrepresented by the Mail or has got a bit full of himself following the success of 5:2. Thoughts?

Yeah - one must remember Mosley is first and foremost a journalist perhaps. A medical journalist second, trained as a doctor third? I like him as a journalist, but that is what he is. That is how he earns his living. And yes - there is not a journalist alive who does not know about the indelicate crossover between information and PR? I also believe it is very important to remember Mosley is not was not and has never been a diabetic. His dad was, if I remember correctly? He was borderline prediabetic, if I remember correctly. But not diabetic.

One can remember too his lovely young adult children in those health docos. I am sure the costs are high if they are earmarked for Oxbridge? Just saying!

It is very healthy for us to to get angry with the promise of reversal in a set time period. That's marketing, pure and simple. We know better!

 

[Goldiespring]

I have read the book - Mosley is T2 diabetic as was his Father according to the book. I don't think he claims cure he is claiming getting bloods into normal range and staying there if you make it a lifestyle change. I found it interesting and encouraging and it had some good suggestions for meals. It is basically reduced calorie LCHF in nature. He advocates regular testing of which foods work for you, and includes beans, chick peas, lentils and oats as they worked for him.

I have been doing something similar since August in my own way 1000 - 1200 cals a day and carbs of about 50g - bloods were Hba1c 37 within 4 months and I have now lost 5 stone - 5 months in. I'm not sure I could sustain his 800 a day - but he only advocates that for 8 weeks and then suggests moving to higher calories but staying with the same food types to maintain.

I do think my insulin sensitivity is better with the weight loss - I can now have a small portion of beans or oats and not spike beyond 2 mol above base and am back down in two hours. I never expect to be cured but could live on my current diet for ever so that's not a problem to me.

 

[4ratbags]

And theres the catch 'getting bloods into normal range and staying there if you make it a lifestyle change' isnt reversing anything, reversing means it is gone and not.coming back even if you add certain foods back into your diet. Im all for anything that helps in reducing someones BS but that word 'reverse' really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

And theres the catch 'getting bloods into normal range and staying there if you make it a lifestyle change' isnt reversing anything, reversing means it is gone and not.coming back even if you add certain foods back into your diet. Im all for anything that helps in reducing someones BS but that word 'reverse' really rubs me the wrong way.

Yes, this has been argued ad nauseam on this forum and elsewhere. There will never be a resolution on this matter.

 

[AloeSvea]

Are you sure in the book he states he is T2D, @Goldiespring? In the doco I saw last year - where he was promoting Intermittent Fasting, and High Intensity Training (great programmes! Good ol' British TV!) he said he was borderline prediabetic - at risk, and that his father had been a T2 diabetic. This means he developed prediabetes, and diabetes in that space of time - which I would suggest was hardly a good promotion for his 5:2 book, or Fast exercise (both great books). Especially as the HIT and the IF seemed to be working so well for him. I am always prepared to admit I am wrong, and I missed something in my readings and viewings. But I had a quick look at his latest article (or a recent one at any rate)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...anges-experience-follow-800-calorie-diet.html

And there was nothing there about him being a T2 diabetic. (But as I say - I am very open to being wrong!)

To be honest - if I met anyone, at a bar, anywhere! (But that would be the most likely place, apart from The Daily Mail) who told me I could conquer diabetes with mindfulness, I think I would slap him! Or, I should say, I would certainly feel like slapping him! I think I would actually look seeringly at him, maybe even go home and practice a very deep meditation - in order that I wouldn't feel like slapping such a person in the future!

I do actually practice meditation. And it IS lovely. But guess what - I still have a wonky liver and pancreas! And I am STILL hugely carbohydrate intolerant. Well - what do you know!

 

[AloeSvea]

OK - wow! Really?! Golly Gee." and his own experience as a one-time diabetic, Dr. Michael Mosley presents a groundbreaking, science-based, 8-week plan for diabetics who want to reverse their condition (and then stay off medication)."

(source: http://books.simonandschuster.com/The-8-Week-Blood-Sugar-Diet/Michael-Mosley/9781501111228)

This plot is really really thickening.

Now I need more specific information to make these pieces of information add up! I could have sworn he said he was borderline prediabetic - or he had worrying numbers, and definite signs of insulin resistance at any rate - during those programmes. So he either developed full blown diabetes (ie HBA1c of 48 and over or the OGTT level ) in a really short time - hey - it happens! And gotten his blood sugar down just as quickly. Or, he had had it in the past, and just didn't talk about it when filming last year. Or, the info was there and I just missed it.

Has anyone seen a recent interview with him where he specifically talks about his diabetes diagnosis? Like when he had it, what his HBA1c was, how long it took him to get it down - the kind of thing we in here bandy about in our signatures or in a thread.

Post the link or keywords?

Or - hopefully - the info is in the book - and you can share it with me @Goldiespring ?

Better than a medical mystery on the tele this is!

 

[Goldiespring]

Yes here you go "Then, three years ago, I went to see my doctor and had a routine blood test. A few days later she rang to say that not only was my cholesterol too high, but my blood sugar was in the diabetic range. Only just, but none-theless, diabetic. Time to go on the tablets. I was shocked and wondered what to do. Because I knew, even then, that this is not a trivial disease. I shouldn’t have been surprised. Blood sugar problems are often inherited, and when my father died at the relatively early age of 74 he was suffering from a wide range of diseases, including type 2 diabetes, heart failure, prostate cancer and what I now suspect was early dementia. Rather than start on a lifetime of medication I decided to make a documentary for the BBC in which I would seek out alternative ways to improve my health."

I'm with you with the mindfulness stuff - lovely but insulting to suggest on its own it will fix things!

Give the book a go - apart from the irritating misuse of the term"reversing"
Rather than controlling it is a really good account of what I have found to work for me.

 

[AloeSvea]

And more -

https://thebloodsugardiet.com/michaels-story/

"I wrote the Blood Sugar Diet because, nearly four years ago, I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic...Rather than start on medication I went on the 5:2 diet (eat normally 5 days a week, cut your calories to around 600 calories for the other two days), lost 20lbs (9kgs) and reversed my diabetes.

I’m not exceptional. Studies carried out by Professor Roy Taylor and his team at Newcastle University have shown that losing 10-15% of body weight can reverse type 2 diabetes in 84% of recently diagnosed diabetics, and 50% of those who have been diabetic for more than 10 years."

So the producers and Mosley himself didn't think it was important to state that he had T2D during the health programmes I saw? Or they underplayed it to the point of - fuzzy information/obfuscation? On the grounds of? Or?

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

OK - wow! Really?! Golly Gee." and his own experience as a one-time diabetic, Dr. Michael Mosley presents a groundbreaking, science-based, 8-week plan for diabetics who want to reverse their condition (and then stay off medication)."

(source: http://books.simonandschuster.com/The-8-Week-Blood-Sugar-Diet/Michael-Mosley/9781501111228)

This plot is really really thickening.

Now I need more specific information to make these pieces of information add up! I could have sworn he said he was borderline prediabetic - or he had worrying numbers, and definite signs of insulin resistance at any rate - during those programmes. So he either developed full blown diabetes (ie HBA1c of 48 and over or the OGTT level ) in a really short time - hey - it happens! And gotten his blood sugar down just as quickly. Or, he had had it in the past, and just didn't talk about it when filming last year. Or, the info was there and I just missed it.

Has anyone seen a recent interview with him where he specifically talks about his diabetes diagnosis? Like when he had it, what his HBA1c was, how long it took him to get it down - the kind of thing we in here bandy about in our signatures or in a thread.

Post the link or keywords?

Or - hopefully - the info is in the book - and you can share it with me @Goldiespring ?

Better than a medical mystery on the tele this is!

It says in the beginning of the book that he just got diagnosed in 2012 with diabetes, just slightly over the limit, but over the diabetic limit none the less. And also, in regards to the chronology of his disease and the documentaries, when he did the exercise documentary, the HIIT training made him 24% more insulin sensitive and that managed to control his sugars somewhat. He then fell out of it again, and his sugars deterioated as he stopped exercising. He then did the fasting documentary, and when he lost those 20 pound of excess bodyweight, was when he was finally able to control his sugars. So yeah, Michael Mosley has cured himself by definition and he does not eat a lowcarb diet either, I belive. He states that he fasts some extra days if he wants to control his sugars again. So I urge you to read the book, he documents evertything he claims.

 

[meagainbutnotforlong]

Not the dogs thing! I mean about cowardice as a treatment for T2.

I was too afraid not to do something drastic.
My cowardice has apparently cured me.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

And more -

https://thebloodsugardiet.com/michaels-story/

"I wrote the Blood Sugar Diet because, nearly four years ago, I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic...Rather than start on medication I went on the 5:2 diet (eat normally 5 days a week, cut your calories to around 600 calories for the other two days), lost 20lbs (9kgs) and reversed my diabetes.

I’m not exceptional. Studies carried out by Professor Roy Taylor and his team at Newcastle University have shown that losing 10-15% of body weight can reverse type 2 diabetes in 84% of recently diagnosed diabetics, and 50% of those who have been diabetic for more than 10 years."

So the producers and Mosley himself didn't think it was important to state that he had T2D during the health programmes I saw? Or they underplayed it to the point of - fuzzy information/obfuscation? On the grounds of? Or?

They mention it several times during the programmes that he is prediabetic, has a family history, in my mind he is cured during the fasting documentary, not during the training documentary. During the training documentary he just controls it with exercise, not by losing weight. During the fasting documentary he loses enough bodyfat in order to cures his diabetes, so it is a gradual process, but no coverup