• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

PIR

chri5

chri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Does anybody have Physiological Insulin Resistance as a result of lchf? If so is it something to be worried about and what can we do about it other than come off lchf?
 
I have PIR, and i like it.

Since i have reactive hypoglycaemia, if i venture out of ketosis, i increase my risk of hypoing.
Being fat adapted (and having physiological insulin resistance) give me a protective buffer zone between me and hypos.
Plus, of course, being fat adapted, if i ever do go into a hypo it is mild, gentle, comparatively comfortable, and i don't get the confusion, black depression and recover more quickly.

I see it as a win - win - win situation.

The slightly raised fasting bgs are a nice reassurance, because they confirm my PIR status. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does PIR mean that little warning your brain and body receives when there is a out of ketosis warning?
Help me here, a bit thick today!
And why is it called psychological?
 
Hells Bells, I think that is what I've got after reading some of those links.

I have been concerned for 2 months or more that my FBG levels have notched upwards by at least half a mmol/l to an average of 6.1. and show no signs of coming back down again. Gone are the 4s I used to see before evening meal. Yet my actual rises post meal are fine, perhaps even better. I am eating about 30g carbs, less some days, and maintaining my weight with fat and protein. I don't think I'm eating any more protein than before. (BMI 21)

Does this sound like PIR? I'm not sure I'm happy. Can anyone convince me I should be?
 
chri5 said:
Does anybody have Physiological Insulin Resistance as a result of lchf? If so is it something to be worried about and what can we do about it other than come off lchf?
Click to expand...

Chris - PIR isn't something I've looked into a great deal, but I think that "doing anything" would very much depend if, on developing it, it had an impact on HbA1c. If all it does, by almost protecting the blood glucose floor, is smooth out the peaks and troughs, making no or little impact, I'd be inclined just to go with the flow - personally.

Do you believe you have it, and if so, what are your own feelings and intentions?
 
Thanks @Brunneria,

Yeah, will have to take time over this. I've already bookmarked the link.

My first reaction to the first part, is why my RH glucose test is always fasting, and I don't need to eat more carbs beforehand. I know that the test is always done like that but is the one he's talking about is the normal two hour OGTT?

There is a another one mentioned about sleep pattern and disruption. That the body's organs work better the deeper sleep you get. And the liver and pancreas work better through the day causing probable dawn phenomenon in some.

May have more to ask later, when I get home from work!!!!
 
nosher8355 said:
Does PIR mean that little warning your brain and body receives when there is a out of ketosis warning?
Help me here, a bit thick today!
And why is it called psychological?
Click to expand...

Nosh - If I can just point out a potential that you mis-read the topic. It's physiological (referring to the body) as opposed to psychological (referring to the mind).

When I first encountered the topic, a while ago, I did a double take too. :)
 
Well i probably won't have any answers for you, if you aim any of those questions a me. Lol.

I only discovered PIR existed around xmas, when it was pointed out to me, and i really just read enough to think 'hey! Thats me! Phew, now i know why...' And stopped worrying about my fasting bgs, and slightly increased lowest bgs.

Did find one fascinating article mentioning the inuit and glycogen in the muscles. Will try and find it.
Here you go.
https://freetheanimal.com/2014/10/physiological-resistance-carbohydrate.html

I have wondered if PIR is why exercise reduces my insulin resistance for such a short time, but it isn't something I have pursued (yet) :)
 
AndBreathe said:
Chris - PIR isn't something I've looked into a great deal, but I think that "doing anything" would very much depend if, on developing it, it had an impact on HbA1c. If all it does, by almost protecting the blood glucose floor, is smooth out the peaks and troughs, making no or little impact, I'd be inclined just to go with the flow - personally.

Do you believe you have it, and if so, what are your own feelings and intentions?
Click to expand...
I only know that my fbg levels seem to be rising although my last 2 hba1c`s were good (39 and 40), my post prandial levels are quite good as well. It`s very confusing and I certainly don`t understand it at all well enough, looks like a lot of research coming up! trouble is the next hba1c isn`t until august and I`m not sure if I want to wait that long if there`s a chance I could be causing damage.
 
Well, I'm just recovering from quite strong PIR reaction..and I can tell it is not fun at all. Thanks to Brunneria I found out why my blood sugars were climbing up and I was doing few days total fasting...no food going in at all!
Boy I was feeling rough and my skin was starting show it too...I wasn't dehydrated but my skin looked like it was, it was floppy and saggy and wrinkly..muscles were aching...I didn't have no energy going to feed muscles as my brain was taking all what was useable for it and yet my body must have been constantly releasing energy from fat stores...but muscles couldn't access it....hence blood sugar levels raising. :rolleyes:
I've been on carb binge for last couple of days...:yuck: ...yuck yuck yuck! I though I would enjoy it, but no...I'm sick of eating all the rubbish. The carbs effect for aches was quick and I feel normal again. Tomorrow I shall go back to LCHF and I'll see what happens then..

Edited to get the hydration part in wright order
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Finsky said:
Well, I'm just recovering from quite strong PIR reaction..and I can tell it is not fun at all. Thanks to Brunneria I found out why my blood sugars were climbing up and I was doing few days total fasting...no food going in at all!
Boy I was feeling rough and my skin was starting show it too...I was dehydrated but my skin looked like it wasn't, it was floppy and saggy and wrinkly..muscles were aching...I didn't have no energy going to feed muscles as my brain was taking all what was useable for it and yet my body must have been constantly releasing energy from fat stores...but muscles couldn't access it....hence blood sugar levels raising. :rolleyes:
I've been on carb binge for last couple of days...:yuck: ...yuck yuck yuck! I though I would enjoy it, but no...I'm sick of eating all the rubbish. The carbs effect for aches was quick and I feel normal again. Tomorrow I shall go back to LCHF and I'll see what happens then..
Click to expand...

You just need to find your personal balance of carbs and ketosis. And exercise helps to cut through IR (for most of us). Also drinking lots.

Its another example where going too low carb isn't always in our best interest, and is unnecessary. :)

But i agree - carby foods are not to my taste, any more. :D
 
chri5 said:
I only know that my fbg levels seem to be rising although my last 2 hba1c`s were good (39 and 40), my post prandial levels are quite good as well. It`s very confusing and I certainly don`t understand it at all well enough, looks like a lot of research coming up! trouble is the next hba1c isn`t until august and I`m not sure if I want to wait that long if there`s a chance I could be causing damage.
Click to expand...
You could always ask for an interim HbA1c on the basis of your concern?
 
I haven't got insulin resistance, have I?

I don't want my pancreas to create the overshoot induced by carbs.
Once my glucose is used and glucagon and normal non carb induced insulin starts to work, my resistance is not there. Is it?
I believe that my imbalance is glucagon related. Is it?

In other words, glucagon makes my pancreas overshoot! Does it?

Going to get my head around this! I hope!
 
@chri5 I guess your meter averages can give you a hint.
From what I've read it won't cause ketoacidosis. The increase is a little one not more than 1.0mmol/l.
 
There's a quote in the article @Brunneria linked to that is very reassuring:

"after going low carb, your muscle tissue becomes insulin resistant in order to preserve serum glucose availability for the brain. If your muscle tissue did not do this, reduced availability of glucose in the serum could (theoretically) put you in dire straights if your brain can’t meet minimal demand for glucose. (Mind you, even on a zero carb diet you can meet all your glucose requirements via gluconeogenesis. The point is, your body needs a way to tell your muscle mass to stop taking all the glucose it makes. This is that way.)"

So, it has no impact on your liver or pancreas. It's a perfectly normal metabolic response to a lowered level of circulating glucose.
 
Indy51 said:
There's a quote in the article @Brunneria linked to that is very reassuring:

"after going low carb, your muscle tissue becomes insulin resistant in order to preserve serum glucose availability for the brain. If your muscle tissue did not do this, reduced availability of glucose in the serum could (theoretically) put you in dire straights if your brain can’t meet minimal demand for glucose. (Mind you, even on a zero carb diet you can meet all your glucose requirements via gluconeogenesis. The point is, your body needs a way to tell your muscle mass to stop taking all the glucose it makes. This is that way.)"

So, it has no impact on your liver or pancreas. It's a perfectly normal metabolic response to a lowered level of circulating glucose.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I needed that!:).
 
@Brunneria is PIR the medical term for carb flu?
Would it explain the aching muscles and lack of energy.
Do some have short term PIR where others have it long term or intermittently as they go in and out of ketosis.
Or is PIR the effects of ketosis?
 
Back
Top