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EU - In or Out + Poll.

EU: Leave, stay or undecided?

  • Leave

    Votes: 83 42.3%

  • Stay

    Votes: 101 51.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 12 6.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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tim2000s said:
I've not asked this of anyone before. What would it take to change your mind?


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For Germany to stop acting as the boss cocky in Europe look how they are making the Greeks lives a misery

They have far too much influence in my opinion

Another thing that would change my mind is the common agricultural policy and the fisheries policy

Fishing in the UK has been decimated and the CAP favours the French both these need serious reform but that's not going to happen is it
 
For me it would have to be a massive change in the way the EU is run and the way it deals with each countries culture, I have to day spend more time in front of the TV than I should have done, but while I like Jeremy Corbyn I could not believe what he said, talk about not having a limit on how many people come here, well it was the first of the many own goals by the remain camp today, I will gloss over most of the TV, but I did notice David Cameroon got a bit rattled tonight on TV when he was asked if he is the 21st Centry's Neville Chamberlain, just goes to show how much some people think they are out of touch with real life.

The second point from DC was when asked would he veto Turkeys entry in to the EU he said he wouldn't be PM when the time came (wrong answer in my view, as it shows he does not care how he leaves the country to the next generation).

I think Mr Cameroon secretly wants us to vote out, that way he can say that the people of Britain have spoken and want to leave. I do wonder if this could be the end of the EU as we know it?
 
IN

I do believe that the EU is in need of reform, but I think that is coming, as there are many other countries that have the same reservations as us.

The world is an ever smaller place, and to go it alone is not a viable option. I would rather be allied with our own continent than forge closer ties with the US.

The EU has played a huge part in the relative peace that Europe has enjoyed in recent decades.

The EU has helped to provide us with many benefits on working hours, maternity, holiday etc that we may never have seen otherwise.

The EU has introduced a great deal of legislation on the environment, green energy and animal welfare in particular that I feel has made a big difference in areas that matter to me a great deal

But most importantly I have been absolutely disgusted by the tone of some the Leave campaigners. They have exploited fear, hatred and downright racism at times. I sincerely hope that optimism, co-operation and hope triumphs.
 
What I find fascinating and disturbing in the same breath is that Nationalism is considered by nearly all major historians as one of the key pillars that triggered the First World War. The key pillar for world war two was economics and the effects of the Versailles treaty on Germany that lead to Hitler's rise.

For a long time, a key part of what the EU has endeavoured to do is to reduce the impact of both of these in order to maintain much better relations between countries. Regardless on your thoughts about sovereignty, trade, democracy, etc, it can't be denied that the last 70 years have been peaceful in Europe and I can't believe that the EU had nothing to do with that, in all its forms.

In which case, why are we considering ripping the fabric of Europe asunder? Are we not truly aware of the implications of our actions? Or is it that those who remember no longer (really) remain?


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tim2000s said:
What I find fascinating and disturbing in the same breath is that Nationalism is considered by nearly all major historians as one of the key pillars that triggered the First World War. The key pillar for world war two was economics and the effects of the Versailles treaty on Germany that lead to Hitler's rise.

For a long time, a key part of what the EU has endeavoured to do is to reduce the impact of both of these in order to maintain much better relations between countries. Regardless on your thoughts about sovereignty, trade, democracy, etc, it can't be denied that the last 70 years have been peaceful in Europe and I can't believe that the EU had nothing to do with that, in all its forms.

In which case, why are we considering ripping the fabric of Europe asunder? Are we not truly aware of the implications of our actions? Or is it that those who remember no longer (really) remain?


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The EU wasnt formed until 1993. We did alright keeping peace for the previous 40+ years. And we will still have NATO
 
I just know sometimes you have to take a step back to progress forward. It isn't a disgrace to say "this is not what I signed up for".
There is often a kink in the road.
It how we overcome that kink which is important.
Have the wisdom to know when things are only going to get worse! STOP and change direction.
Our kids and grandkids need to understand that you shouldnt be relying on others to manage for them. Do it yourself!
 
serenity648 said:
The EU wasnt formed until 1993. We did alright keeping peace for the previous 40+ years. And we will still have NATO
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The constructs of Union have been in place since it was introduced, including integrating members and supranationalism. We wanted to join it a lot earlier than many seem to remember (only thanks to De Gaulle were we unable). Don't kid yourself. The integration that took place then played an enormous part in keeping Europe peaceful.

And of course, with being a part of NATO, which has been put forward in many topics, we also give up some of our sovereignty in relation to making defence decisions. As has been said before, there are many treaties with many organisations worldwide that "de-sovereign" a country. The EU is not the only one to which we subscribe.
 
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Yesterday's aggregation of polls pointed to 44% in/44% out with 9% undecided and 3% unregistered.

So the undecideds are likely to determine the outcome!
 
KevinPotts said:
Yesterday's aggregation of polls pointed to 44% in/44% out with 9% undecided and 3% unregistered.

So the undecideds are likely to determine the outcome!
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Ironically, we're pretty much back to where we started!


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I for one... will be up through Thursday night/Friday morning.
 
One more thought on this. If there is a vote for Brexit on Thursday, the Scots are likely to demand a second independence referendum, if the majority in Scotland are for remaining in the EU. They might well then vote to leave the UK and stay in the EU.
Scotland has consistently sent a large block of more progressive MPs to Westminster. Previously Labour, now SNP. Without those 40+ MPs, it will leave the Conservatives with a bigger majority, and it will be much more difficult, perhaps impossible, to defeat them in the future. This will have huge implications, especially for the NHS.
 
Maybe that has been the plan from the start @Prem51 .
PM will always know more than us but his goals arent always mine.
Majority didnt even vote him in!
So yes, voting can be tactical. The voters have been manipulated from day one.
And we know it.

Even the polls have given Cameron food for thought. Voters arent making it easy for him.
It's some part an attack on the conservatives and silly labour tagging along for the ride. Labour has lost it's edge and boris johnson knows it.
Some people voting tactically. As always.
If leave voters win, more due to popularity contest than gritty facts.
That's politics!
 
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@ickihun I don't think Cameron would want to go down as the Prime Minister who caused the break up of the United Kingdom. If there is a vote for Brexit he will resign. Boris Johnson well might be calculating that he will then become Conservative Leader and PM. He used to support being in the UK, but has switched to supporting Brexit - opportunism?
 
Its a shame the conservatives are going to take the brunt, whatever the outcome. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.
Maybe that itself is enough punishment for being in the wrong /job position which sits comfortable with the british public?
 
PurpleArmadillo said:
But most importantly I have been absolutely disgusted by the tone of some the Leave campaigners. They have exploited fear, hatred and downright racism at times. I sincerely hope that optimism, co-operation and hope triumphs.
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The same can be said of the remain camp too though.
 
tim2000s said:
I've not asked this of anyone before. What would it take to change your mind?


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I don't think you could. The "experts" don't seem to know what will happen one way or the other. The literature with the "balanced" in/out arguments; NHS will be better appeared on both sides ...
It's a gut instinct pure & simple
 
tim2000s said:
I've not asked this of anyone before. What would it take to change your mind?


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Click to expand...

After the beating Cameron got last night by the audience and by Dimbleby, his waffled avoidance of answering questions about Turkey, his obvious panic, his misleading statements about social security benefits for immigrants, no way would I change my mind. He was totally mauled, and deservedly so. I was out, I am still out.
 
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