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Progressive or not?

D

DeeBee

Member
Messages
6
Location
Moray
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
My hbA1c is 6 and my daily levels never get over 7.5, with fasting one around 4.8 - 5.3 and I take Metformin twice daily. I am about a stone overweight, and aged 61 (f). My GP is always doom and gloom though and says regardless of how careful I am being it is a progressive disease and I will steadily develop other illnesses and my life span will be affected. I always come away feeling depressed despite thinking I am doing well. So can we not stave off the inevitable downward slope then ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi and welcome,

Have you come across the www.bloodsugar101.com website yet? Lots of evidence there suggesting that type 2 is only degenerative when we eat more carbs than our bodies can tolerate, and we develop insulin resistance and wear out our beta cells.
 
The sad state of medical community is that they have entrapped themselves with their flawed approach to T2D management. Focusing primarily on managing elevated glucose level thru medication and insulin.

T2D is chronic and progressive if you follow conventional treatment protocols and dietary guidelines. ADA themselves recognized that T2D remission, eg HbA1c < 5.5% is extremely rare...except when there is Bariatric surgery.

Fortunately for us, there has been increaing numbers of astute Doctors that have recognized and pointed out that Bariatric surgery is primarily surgically enforced fasting and we can get much of the same T2D remission benefits thru intermittent fasting and low carb high fats lifestyle. It is surprisingly simple and cost effective.

For me it worked with no medication, no insulin and not even regular exercise...HbA1c from 11% to 5.5% within 3 months. And maintained at < 5.5% for another 6 months.
 
I think the disease will be as progressive as you allow it to be.

If you maintain control over your BG levels (and I do not kid myself that maintaining my current control won't get more difficult as time passes) then you also maintain control over how the disease progresses.


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum mobile app
 
Mine hasn't progressed over the time since I was diagnosed - I've got some control over it, and as long as I can keep this management up, I have a fair chance of keeping it so.

Regardless of all the incorrect advice around, I think that GPs see too many diabetics who are unwilling or incapable of changing their ways to help themselves, so they end up with this jaded view about it being progressive.

Robbity
 
Hi @DeeBee I'm only 18 months into this so very interested in your thread. I work very hard at keeping tight control as I have some complications, weird foot and background retinopathy, I was hoping my foot would improve as I got my levels down but am still working on that.
@Brunneria can I ask what is insulin resistance and how can it be tested?
 
Hiitsme said:
Hi @DeeBee
@Brunneria can I ask what is insulin resistance and how can it be tested?
Click to expand...

The best investigation into insulin resistance that I have yet found is by Jason Fung in his book The Obesity Code. Most of the same info is freely available on his website here: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/
He is a nephrologist (kidneys) who runs a diabetes clinic, because most of his nephrology patients are diabetics.

You are far better going to him for info on insulin resistance (because he provides all the references! :) )

But I can give you a VERY brief explanation, from my limited understanding...

- humans have a great coping mechanism that means we can become resistant to things, which increases our tolerance of them.
- this resistance builds up to food (if they include toxins), drugs, and even our own hormones, if they are produced too much and too often.
- when T2s are described as 'insulin resistant' it means that we have been producing insulin in so much quantity that the cells of our bodies become resistant to it.
- so our pancreas produces MORE insulin, and our cells become MORE insulin resistant
- sometimes T2s are producing MASSES of insulin, but their cells are resistantly ignoring it (think of someone constantly turning up the volume of a stereo - the insulin - while everyone at the party just shouts louder and louder, to try and talk to their friends - the resistance.
- once we become resistant, our body is flooded with insulin
- insulin is the hormone that shoves glucose into our cells where it is stored as fat.
- being fat increases insulin resistance
- insulin and insulin resistance are also a known trigger for hunger

It becomes a vicious cycle of carbs-glucose-insulin-insulin resistance-fat deposits-hunger-carbs

The answer is to get off the cycle, reduce carbs, reduce insulin, and the insulin resistance drops. Other ways of reducing insulin resistance (temporarily) are exercise and fasting, but eating carbs again will cause the insulin resistance to rise again - in T2s. Metformin reduces insulin resistance a little. Please note that insulin resistance is possible for anyone, including T1s and non diabetics, but I think the problem is always present for T2s, unless they control it with diet, exercise and/or fasting. Insulin resistance is present before we become pre-diabetic, then diabetic, and before we start to gain weight. It is the cause, not the symptom.

The usual test methods used in the UK test for glucose levels, not insulin levels.
I believe there is a test used elsewhere called the Insulin Clamping test, which measures the amount of insulin released after the ingestion of a set amount of carbs, but I don't know the details, since there is more chance of England winning the Euros than there is of me ever being insulin clamped. ;)
 
Excellent summary @Brunneria. As a Jason Fung fan, I think it's a very accurate interpretation of what he argues (based on the research).
 
Hi everyone. I have actually been a member for years but rarely post. I agree about low carbs and high fat diet absolutely. I was diagnosed 11 years ago and for the first couple of years struggled terribly to get my levels down. I was following the advice given to me by my GP and dietician, to up the carbs, cut the sugar/salt/fat and eat more veg etc. It was after reading some comments on here that I decided to change my diet and began to get positive changes.

So after 8 years on the low carb diet my levels are fab, I have lost 3 stone and feel much better. Unfortunately I have other health issues which impact on what I eat and exercise is very difficult, but I want to lose this last stone by next easter, which I should manage.

It's the attitude of my GP that is so depressing. He always says my levels are excellent but really that won't help me in the long term, and I have said that he is terribly negative and he says no, just realistic. I feel people should be given encouragement, especially when they are making an effort, otherwise many (not me) will wonder what the point of being so careful is.
 
DeeBee said:
Hi everyone. I have actually been a member for years but rarely post. I agree about low carbs and high fat diet absolutely. I was diagnosed 11 years ago and for the first couple of years struggled terribly to get my levels down. I was following the advice given to me by my GP and dietician, to up the carbs, cut the sugar/salt/fat and eat more veg etc. It was after reading some comments on here that I decided to change my diet and began to get positive changes.

So after 8 years on the low carb diet my levels are fab, I have lost 3 stone and feel much better. Unfortunately I have other health issues which impact on what I eat and exercise is very difficult, but I want to lose this last stone by next easter, which I should manage.

It's the attitude of my GP that is so depressing. He always says my levels are excellent but really that won't help me in the long term, and I have said that he is terribly negative and he says no, just realistic. I feel people should be given encouragement, especially when they are making an effort, otherwise many (not me) will wonder what the point of being so careful is.
Click to expand...
ps...thank you all for your replies
 
Brunneria said:
The best investigation into insulin resistance that I have yet found is by Jason Fung in his book The Obesity Code. Most of the same info is freely available on his website here: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/
He is a nephrologist (kidneys) who runs a diabetes clinic, because most of his nephrology patients are diabetics.

You are far better going to him for info on insulin resistance (because he provides all the references! :) )

But I can give you a VERY brief explanation, from my limited understanding...

- humans have a great coping mechanism that means we can become resistant to things, which increases our tolerance of them.
- this resistance builds up to food (if they include toxins), drugs, and even our own hormones, if they are produced too much and too often.
- when T2s are described as 'insulin resistant' it means that we have been producing insulin in so much quantity that the cells of our bodies become resistant to it.
- so our pancreas produces MORE insulin, and our cells become MORE insulin resistant
- sometimes T2s are producing MASSES of insulin, but their cells are resistantly ignoring it (think of someone constantly turning up the volume of a stereo - the insulin - while everyone at the party just shouts louder and louder, to try and talk to their friends - the resistance.
- once we become resistant, our body is flooded with insulin
- insulin is the hormone that shoves glucose into our cells where it is stored as fat.
- being fat increases insulin resistance
- insulin and insulin resistance are also a known trigger for hunger

It becomes a vicious cycle of carbs-glucose-insulin-insulin resistance-fat deposits-hunger-carbs

The answer is to get off the cycle, reduce carbs, reduce insulin, and the insulin resistance drops. Other ways of reducing insulin resistance (temporarily) are exercise and fasting, but eating carbs again will cause the insulin resistance to rise again - in T2s. Metformin reduces insulin resistance a little. Please note that insulin resistance is possible for anyone, including T1s and non diabetics, but I think the problem is always present for T2s, unless they control it with diet, exercise and/or fasting. Insulin resistance is present before we become pre-diabetic, then diabetic, and before we start to gain weight. It is the cause, not the symptom.

The usual test methods used in the UK test for glucose levels, not insulin levels.
I believe there is a test used elsewhere called the Insulin Clamping test, which measures the amount of insulin released after the ingestion of a set amount of carbs, but I don't know the details, since there is more chance of England winning the Euros than there is of me ever being insulin clamped. ;)
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for a really clear explanation. I assume I was very insulin resistant when diagnosed but hopefully now a bit less so. I was hoping that there was a way of finding out.
 
DeeBee said:
Hi everyone. I have actually been a member for years but rarely post. I agree about low carbs and high fat diet absolutely. I was diagnosed 11 years ago and for the first couple of years struggled terribly to get my levels down. I was following the advice given to me by my GP and dietician, to up the carbs, cut the sugar/salt/fat and eat more veg etc. It was after reading some comments on here that I decided to change my diet and began to get positive changes.

So after 8 years on the low carb diet my levels are fab, I have lost 3 stone and feel much better. Unfortunately I have other health issues which impact on what I eat and exercise is very difficult, but I want to lose this last stone by next easter, which I should manage.

It's the attitude of my GP that is so depressing. He always says my levels are excellent but really that won't help me in the long term, and I have said that he is terribly negative and he says no, just realistic. I feel people should be given encouragement, especially when they are making an effort, otherwise many (not me) will wonder what the point of being so careful is.
Click to expand...

An attitude like that you wonder why he is in the business he's in.
I would recommend giving the diet a change and see if it works for you.
Wish you well and hope you'll keep us updated on your progress.
 
As far as I am aware type 2 is progressive.
From what I have read here I do think it can be paused or even reversed. So the future doesn't have to be bleak or short.
I am lucky because my doctors have been great. Once I was diagnosed I found this site and read up on low carb high fat. I said to my doctors I wanted to try diet before medication and I was given a glucose meter.
In January I was feeling like rubbish, my period wouldn't stop, I felt hormonal (like early pregnancy) I was tired all the time, I was gaining and losing weight with no cause, I had terrible memory issues so much so I thought I was mad and I was just not right. I was sent for scans, blood tests and a smear.
All fine except my glucose which in march came back at HBA1C 48, I was sent again for another blood test to confirm if I was diabetic or pre diabetic. This was done in April, and was HBA1C 55.
Since then I have done low carb, high fat with the occasional fasting day (using food replacement packs)
My periods are normal, my brain/memory was as before I felt ill, I have lost 3st 11lbs in weight and best of all my daily glucose levels are down from 8-9's to late 5's early 6's no matter the time of day I take a reading.
My HBA1C test is in 2 weeks but I'm hoping to be down from 55 to 35-40. My meter average over the last 30 days days 6.0

So although very new to diabetes my own personal experience is not one of progression at all in fact the opisite. It's one of great positivity. So far only good things have come from my diagnosis.
There is a success section on this forum and it's worth a read for inspiration.
Good luck x
 
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