Fat versus calories and carbohydrates

[Yai]

I am another confused 'newbie' to LCHF diet. I am on week 5, enjoying the food, not missing carbohydrates much, and eating approx 1300 cals and 80 carbs per day. My question relates to calories and weight loss: many people on this forum say, reducing carbohydrates even further gives best weight loss results. Surely we must also control the calories contained in cream, cheese, olive oil, avocados etc, otherwise we will be eating a great deal of calories and hence putting on weight?

 

[Resurgam]

Calories just don't add up for me - I did low calorie diets with my doctor sneering at me for cheating and lying as I felt as though I was dying and then I did low carb and felt wonderful lost weight eating three times the calories, and with my doctor going on about how dangerous it was and I'd surely die in a few months - that was in the 1970s.
I do try to understand how Humans work, but I think it would require more than one lifetime, which I do not have, so I have decided just to go on doing what I'm doing for as long as possible.

 

[Yai]

Calories just don't add up for me - I did low calorie diets with my doctor sneering at me for cheating and lying as I felt as though I was dying and then I did low carb and felt wonderful lost weight eating three times the calories, and with my doctor going on about how dangerous it was and I'd surely die in a few months - that was in the 1970s.
I do try to understand how Humans work, but I think it would require more than one lifetime, which I do not have, so I have decided just to go on doing what I'm doing for as long as possible.

Ha ha. Thank you. It just does my head in. I can't understand why, if eating loads of calories in cream, oil etc. that people lose weight. I was schooled in the "deficit of 500 calories per day to lose 1lb per week", hence why I have been aiming for around 1300 cals. I am finding it a full time job to understand carbohydrates, fat content, protein etc., but I am keen to learn, and need to so that I can reduce my medication!

 

[lovinglife]

At first - about my first 3st the weight fell off without counting anything but carbs, but after that I also had to limit my fats and count calories to loose the rest of my weight. I have to do about 1200 cals to loose and about 1500 to maintain. Any more than that on a regular basis and I gain weight.

I prefer the term low carb healthy fat rather than high fat - I find nuts and dairy fats bump or stall my weight loss so I do limit them, eat loads of avocado, evoo, a few nuts and a bit of cheese, I don't like butter, milk or cream much - I find m not too bad with some animal fats but have to be careful of that too. Eat just enough fat to feel satisfied rather than eat loads and see if that helps

 

[Brunneria]

I think it just depends on your personal metabolism. So have an experiment, and see what works for YOU.

Me? I feel dreadful on over 60 g carbs a day, and best at under 20g carbs a day.
But neither of those will make me lose weight.
Nor do calorie variations either.
The key for me is getting insulin resistance down.

I think most people think that what works for them should work for others, but sadly, we just don't all fit in the same mould.

 

[Kristin251]

Calories do matter for me. I don't count them but have in the past and I do just fine on around 1000. I eat small meals that are 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs. All carbs are from avocado, nuts and above ground veggies. 20 and usually less per day. 20 not deducting fiber. More than that and my energy plummets and I just don't feel well
I have some avocado with every meal. Then nuts for snack and some mayo or olive oil make up the majority of my fats. I don't douse or drown anything in fat. Just normal amounts. I do however keep saturated fats low and rarely eat cheese/ dairy.
Quality over quantity for me.

Eating 80/15/5 is easy. A handful of lettuce, some chopped avocado and some protein bites drizzled with olive oil. Hard boiled egg with mayo on a big piece of lettuce with chopped onion and celery. Same lettuce wrap can be used with almost any protein. Kind of like a low carb sandwich.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think as we all have unique metabolisms we all have unique ways of losing or not losing weight. I did count my calories and kept them to around 1200 a day, and I also counted carbs and kept them low. I lost 4 stone 7lbs in around 9 or 10 months. I then had to maintain but I also wanted to lower my carbs a lot more. I increased my calories by eating more fats and especially fats from protein sources such as eggs and cheese. It took a while to get the balance right, but it happened and I have maintained for nearly 2 and a half years on very low carb and very high fats. So for me, I did calorie count to lose weight, but most of those calories came from fats and protein. I haven't counted anything for a long time now.

 

[Kristin251]

Ha ha. Thank you. It just does my head in. I can't understand why, if eating loads of calories in cream, oil etc. that people lose weight. I was schooled in the "deficit of 500 calories per day to lose 1lb per week", hence why I have been aiming for around 1300 cals. I am finding it a full time job to understand carbohydrates, fat content, protein etc., but I am keen to learn, and need to so that I can reduce my medication!

I hear you. Nothing needs to be drowned in fat. Low carb usually means less hunger and less need for more food.
Keep it simple. Eat like you normally do but push away the carbs. Maybe have a bit more than your normal meals instead or add some fat like avocado or nuts. Fat adds up fast. Chicken and broccoli drizzled with EVOO or butter and some avocado. Steak with mushrooms and onions with a side salad. I add avocado to every meal as it's filling and a great healthy fat with some fiber. If it weren't for that I would probably be hungry all the time. It's great on blood sugar too. The fat and fiber keeps everything low and slow.

My mantra is vlc, MODERATE protein ( .8-1 g per kg of IDEAL body weight) and just enough fat to satisfy. Small meals are great on bs too. Saturated fat raises me higher and keeps me higher longer. No avocado and I spike fast and high from the protein. Avocado is as important to me as insulin lol. Steadiest food ever

 

[Yai]

Thank you for your help. I am obviously finding it harder to give up old habits than I thought! I want this to be a lifestyle change for me, so it has to be do-able. I don't want to resent the fact that I can never eat anything I fancy (eg carbs). A typical day's food for me has been:

Porage and raspberries or 6 pecan nuts (I know porage is high carb, but was working on this being the bulk I would consume in a day, and to keep me going until lunch), or Greek yoghurt with cherries/strawberries (4 of each). I have to watch full fat yoghurt as sometimes it upsets my digestive system (I think due to not having a gall bladder?)

4 brazil nuts if I need a snack (for instance after swimming or zumba class)

Salad with avocado and prawns or smoked salmon or feta/cottage cheese plus olive oil/balsamic

chicken or vegetable stir fry with lots of vegetables and giving the carbs to my husband

1 large square or 2 small squares of over 70% cocoa solids dark chocolate with decaff coffee/almond milk in the evening. That is my treat for the day.

Over the 5 weeks I have lost: 5lb, 1lb, 1.6lb, 1.4lb, 0.2lb (away from home for 5 days and birthday partying)

It doesn't help that I cannot cook properly as I am having building work/kitchen refit, and I am currently cooking in the porch with the help of a microwave and one-ring induction hob! Not having an oven or grill is limiting. Perhaps I just have to eat fewer calories, fewer carbohydrates and less dairy. I don't feel that I am over-using oil, as I have been years and years used to low fat/dry frying and don't like my food saturated in anything. Must be enjoying food too much!

 

[Kristin251]

It would be the porrrage ( grains) and dairy as well as some of the fruits that would not only stall me but I'd gain. Grains and dairy are huge weight loss stallers / gainers.

Maybe hard boil a bunch of eggs for the week and have for bf? Microwave some decent sausage? I eat chicken sage bf sausage. Very clean ingredients. Clean deli meat? Bf doesn't have to be bf food. Lately I've been on a kick of avocado, celery bits and smoked salmon lately. Usually avocado and turkey but found a very clean low sodium smoked salmon that is so most and not a huge smoke flavor. No carbs. Lots of times they put sugar in smoked food.

You just have a little refining to do but you're on the right track. If weight loss is desired I personally would ditch the porrage and all dairy, much as I love dairy......I don't eat it often and when I do it's in. Dry small quantities. I wonder if you're intolerant to casein, the protein in full fat dairy and that's why your tummy is bothered. Dairy bloats me. Not sure if it's the casein or lactose.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Yai Are you testing your BG's?

If so, what is it telling you about your breakfasts and your pre-lunch levels? I know some people can cope with porridge, and I thought I could cope with yogurt and berries (I was very wrong about that after using a Libre sensor that told me it was not a good idea) It seems I am one that cannot eat any carbs until lunch time. Since skipping breakfast and just having a decaf coffee with lots of cream I have seen mid morning and my pre-lunch levels drop significantly.

Your weight loss looks perfect and steady to me. It is better to be a tortoise rather than a hare, slow but sure, when it comes to weight loss. Between 1 and 2lbs a week after the initial fluid loss is good.

 

[Resurgam]

I do have some groundnut oil - but most of the time I have fats from other sources.
Lamb fat is very white and has little taste, so it is handy for anything - I cooked a goose last month and still have some of the fat from it - ideal for frying mushrooms and peppers. My cast iron cookware is old and well used and as smooth as glass, so nothing much sticks - I can use metal spatulas and fish slices on it, so I can remove things with surgical precision. There are some big pots with lids - just right for cauldron cookery. A small charcoal fire beneath and allowed to smoulder for hours makes a great casserole, and I have pressure cookers, one was my mother's and the other my grandmother's which make short work of the cheaper cuts of meat - and as they are enclosed it is OK to put in a small amount of meat - you get almost the same amount out at the end of cooking. If you are cooking for a family and need to add carbs for them then a lid of suet pastry or suet dumplings works well.
Using the natural fats seems to be a good idea, as that seems to be the proper balance in my diet. I do boil my bacon -first in order to defrost it and then to remove the salt and other soluble stuff, and lastly because it is something my family have done for generations. Any fat boiled off is thrown away, but there seems to be enough left to cook the eggs in once it has crisped up once the water is poured off. I put it into a bowl to separate - pouring fat into the drains is not a good idea.
Dr Atkins advised that to lose fat you need to eat fat, even though it seems counterintuitive.

 

[zand]

I have posted this before, but I am repeating it here because I wanted to answer the same question for myself a while back. I wondered what would happen if I pushed LCHF to the limit. It was just a short term experiment and by no means a healthy diet for longer than 5/6 days. I concluded that for me personally carb calories are far worse than fat calories even though gram for gram fat has 9 cals and carbs have only 4.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

 

[lovinglife]

I agree @zand - carb calories are worse than fat calories

 

[Kristin251]

In the absence of carbs fat is FUEL!!

Great experiment Zand! I would love a day of avocado and egg yolks with mayo or butter!!!

Interesting more food helped you lose. Sometimes I try to drop a few pounds by cutting back a bit but I don't lose. Then when I have fat gorge days the scale goes down. I always chalked it up to a hormone day.
Do you still keep your protein low??

I have posted this before, but I am repeating it here because I wanted to answer the same question for myself a while back. I wondered what would happen if I pushed LCHF to the limit. It was just a short term experiment and by no means a healthy diet for longer than 5/6 days. I concluded that for me personally carb calories are far worse than fat calories even though gram for gram fat has 9 cals and carbs have only 4.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

 

[Hotpepper20000]

Also if a person is severely insulin resistant it's not just the calories we consume but our bodies response to it.
For me grains and excess protein causes me to have high glucose and as a result I have too much insulin. And excess insulin causes me to gain weight.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

There is this interesting video by Dr Zoe Harcombe which gives some interesting facts about fat and calories and why eating fat is OK.

 

[Yai]

@Yai Are you testing your BG's?

If so, what is it telling you about your breakfasts and your pre-lunch levels? I know some people can cope with porridge, and I thought I could cope with yogurt and berries (I was very wrong about that after using a Libre sensor that told me it was not a good idea) It seems I am one that cannot eat any carbs until lunch time. Since skipping breakfast and just having a decaf coffee with lots of cream I have seen mid morning and my pre-lunch levels drop significantly.

Your weight loss looks perfect and steady to me. It is better to be a tortoise rather than a hare, slow but sure, when it comes to weight loss. Between 1 and 2lbs a week after the initial fluid loss is good.

. Thank you for your encouragement. BG fasting 6.4 and 8.2 after eating porage and berries/nuts

6.8 and 8.4 after eating yoghurt and berries/nuts, so very little difference. Obviously I want to get the 8.4 reading down as it is at the top end of recommended level for type 2 after eating. Around 6.0 pre-lunch.

 

[Bluetit1802]

. Thank you for your encouragement. BG fasting 6.4 and 8.2 after eating porage and berries/nuts

6.8 and 8.4 after eating yoghurt and berries/nuts, so very little difference. Obviously I want to get the 8.4 reading down as it is at the top end of recommended level for type 2 after eating. Around 6.0 pre-lunch.

If I were you I would experiment with something virtually zero carb but plenty of fat for breakfast. Eggs cooked any which way are a good choice, plus a decaf with cream or half an avocado. That may just lower your morning level and keep it lower before lunch. It's just a suggestion, but worth a try.

 

[Yai]

There is this interesting video by Dr Zoe Harcombe which gives some interesting facts about fat and calories and why eating fat is OK.

Wow. That content really takes some thinking about. Thank you for sharing it.