Fasting results going the wrong way..help!

[Granny_Mo]

Hi
My husband was diagnosed T2 a month ago after fasting results of 14.5 and 15. He also has a spinal injury and takes lots of other medications and his mobility is not too good. We started out on a low carb regime enthusiastically along with Metformin. Within 2 weeks results were encouraging and diabetes nurse was very pleased with him - fasting blood sugar going down (6.5 at the lowest) and weight dropping off nicely. However on Sunday we had lunch with friends and Peter was a bit naughty with carbs - no sugar but some wine and berries and high carb vegs. Next morning blood sugar was up to 7.5 - no surprise. It then dipped the next day back to 6.5 pre "binge" level. However the following day and this morning it was in the 8's. This is in spite of going back to being very careful. We are only a month into this slightly bewildering world and wondered if it takes this long for the consequences of one "naughty day" to disappear. Or is something else going on here? Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[catinahat]

Hi Granny_Mo
I have found that if I succumb to the carb demons it can cause elevated levels for a few days, but it is not just diet that will send sugar levels high. Stress, lack of sleep, pain, medication even the weather can all cause elevated levels.
You are doing a great job, keep up the good work and try not to worry about the odd high readings

 

[Granny_Mo]

Thanks. It is very confusing and Peter's ex

Hi Granny_Mo
I have found that if I succumb to the carb demons it can cause elevated levels for a few days, but it is not just diet that will send sugar levels high. Stress, lack of sleep, pain, medication even the weather can all cause elevated levels.
You are doing a great job, keep up the good work and try not to worry about the odd high readings

Thanks for this. We are still finding it quite confusing as the diabetes nurse seemed to be guiding us towards low GI diet rather than low carbs. Peter's pre exisiting spinal injury also causes many health ups and downs as he suffers from spasticity which is hard to manage. So diabetes adds an extra challenge! This forum is a god send. Otherwise we would be waiting till the next diabetic clinic appt to get some answers.

 

[kokhongw]

It is quite normal to take a few days for the liver to re-adjust itself...

 

[Granny_Mo]

Thanks. What I find confusing is that it went up (expected as he overindulged) - then down to what is "normal" the day after , then up again (by a fair bit) following him getting back on the wagon carb wise.

 

[ringi]

The simple view:

To get a low BG reading, you must eat fewer curbs then the body uses within a few hours of the meal.​

The bit more correct view:

The liver (and muscle) has space to store a limited amount of solid BG (Glycogen) when this space is used up, BG increases if you eat curbs, when there is a lot of space to store solid BG, eating a few curbs does not change BG.

Type2 is not having much space left to store BG, if the space is always filled up, you create lots of fat, and the fat reduces the space even more. (One of the main reasons for insulin resistance)

It takes a long time on “low curb” to empty all the BG storage spaces (Intermittent fasting can speed this up, but check if meds require regulator meals first.) Building up muscle mass also helps greatly, as does losing body fat. Maybe there are more curbs you can remove from meals, but do add some nice fat, otherwise on one will like the food and therefore start to each between meals.

Maybe a nice large steak with mushrooms fried in butter along with grilled asparagus, with a selection of cheeses and olives to finish the meal next time you eat with friends….

The “Living Low Carb” book explains it all in lots of details, but will take a few days to read.

 

[Indy51]

some wine

The wine could also have affected things. Because it's a toxin, the liver is preoccupied with clearing it and its ability to produce glucose is blocked. Alcohol can have all sorts of odd effects on blood glucose.

 

[Bluetit1802]

My advice is to not pay too much attention to fasting levels because there are too many things that affect it, many of which are outside our control. My surgery has stopped doing them completely.

More important are the before and after eating levels and any nasty rises after food. In most people, the best time to check to see how you are doing in general is the test immediately before evening meal (assuming you haven't been snacking in the afternoon). By this time our livers are far less likely to be dumping glucose and any insulin resistance tends to diminish a little as the day progresses. Most of us see our lowest numbers at that time. You can watch for trends in this rather than the fasting level.

 

[Granny_Mo]

My advice is to not pay too much attention to fasting levels because there are too many things that affect it, many of which are outside our control. My surgery has stopped doing them completely.

More important are the before and after eating levels and any nasty rises after food. In most people, the best time to check to see how you are doing in general is the test immediately before evening meal (assuming you haven't been snacking in the afternoon). By this time our livers are far less likely to be dumping glucose and any insulin resistance tends to diminish a little as the day progresses. Most of us see our lowest numbers at that time. You can watch for trends in this rather than the fasting level.

Thank you. This sounds like good advice. We are learning all the time - but it's a lot to absorb. Until now we have been unlocking the mysteries of spinal cord injury (lol) - a complicated illness. Now a new lot of diabetes info to absorb. We'll get there!

 

[Granny_Mo]

The simple view:

To get a low BG reading, you must eat fewer curbs then the body uses within a few hours of the meal.​

The bit more correct view:

The liver (and muscle) has space to store a limited amount of solid BG (Glycogen) when this space is used up, BG increases if you eat curbs, when there is a lot of space to store solid BG, eating a few curbs does not change BG.

Type2 is not having much space left to store BG, if the space is always filled up, you create lots of fat, and the fat reduces the space even more. (One of the main reasons for insulin resistance)

It takes a long time on “low curb” to empty all the BG storage spaces (Intermittent fasting can speed this up, but check if meds require regulator meals first.) Building up muscle mass also helps greatly, as does losing body fat. Maybe there are more curbs you can remove from meals, but do add some nice fat, otherwise on one will like the food and therefore start to each between meals.

Maybe a nice large steak with mushrooms fried in butter along with grilled asparagus, with a selection of cheeses and olives to finish the meal next time you eat with friends….

The “Living Low Carb” book explains it all in lots of details, but will take a few days to read.

I agree re the steak and asparagus - trouble is when eating at a friends house, you are a bit at their mercy. She stuck to roasted pork for the main course,which was OK but also carrots and other high sugar vegs. Also there was quite a bit of fruit involved through the whole meal. Like many (myself included before Peter's diagnosis) she assumed that fruit = good sugar therefore OK. I think may I need to tactfully educate my friends. But we assumed that an occasional "holiday" would not have a long term effect. Obviously not so!

 

[Granny_Mo]

Things are going from bad to worse. I am beginning to think there may be something else going on here as this morning's reading was up again to 9.4 (it had been down to 6.5). Peter has been super careful. He is so disappointed. We plan to do before and after meal tests as suggested.

 

[Brunneria]

This is a very long game... and a few glitches and morning highs are not only inevitable, but they are indications that there is a lot more at work than just food.

I'm not saying that to worry you, but rather to reassure you. Remember, you have reduced his readings massively, in a short time. That is something you should be celebrating, every day!

Please don't focus on the fasting readings, or worry about them, at this stage. People often take months before they see the fasting readings going down. You are already ahead of that game.
Plus, there are so many other factors - amount of sleep, pain levels, stress levels, drugs (I assume he is on some meds for the spinal injury?), even the heat/cold can affect us.

Personally, the highest fasting reading I ever measured was after a night of disturbed sleep when I broke up a cat-fox fight at 3am. Absolutely nothing to do with my eating habits the day before, and ALL to do with the stress hormone dumpage and disturbed sleep.

The only notice I take of my fasting readings nowadays, is to think 'huh! stressed over that meeting/job interview/short deadline then.'

Hope that helps!

 

[Granny_Mo]

This is a very long game... and a few glitches and morning highs are not only inevitable, but they are indications that there is a lot more at work than just food.

I'm not saying that to worry you, but rather to reassure you. Remember, you have reduced his readings massively, in a short time. That is something you should be celebrating, every day!

Please don't focus on the fasting readings, or worry about them, at this stage. People often take months before they see the fasting readings going down. You are already ahead of that game.
Plus, there are so many other factors - amount of sleep, pain levels, stress levels, drugs (I assume he is on some meds for the spinal injury?), even the heat/cold can affect us.

Personally, the highest fasting reading I ever measured was after a night of disturbed sleep when I broke up a cat-fox fight at 3am. Absolutely nothing to do with my eating habits the day before, and ALL to do with the stress hormone dumpage and disturbed sleep.

The only notice I take of my fasting readings nowadays, is to think 'huh! stressed over that meeting/job interview/short deadline then.'

Hope that helps!

Thanks Brunneria. I am feeling better after so much reassurance. It's clear we have a lot to learn yet but we don't have another diabetic clinic appointment for 2 months yet and we worry massively that an already complicated illness (SCI) can be adversely affected by another complicated illness (diabetes). My husband is still improving 5 years after sustaining his spinal injury (we work hard with physiotherapy and home exercises) and his body needs the right fuel to keep this up. He has days when he can move a lot and days when his spasticity and tight muscles mean movement is more limited. I am guessing from what you and others are saying that this plus his many medications (for pain and muscle tightness) are throwing him a bit off balance. I am not generally a worrier but working out the right way to approach the two illnesses combined is tricky. He already suffers from neuropathy due to nerve damage from spinal injury which causes quite severe nerve pain and the idea of sustaining even more nerve damage due to the diabetes is a bit scary. Thanks again.