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Has anyone ever had a fasting insulin test on the NHS?

ringi said:
I question if a fasting insulin level test will result in any action from most people or their doctor's. The only real use I can think of for the number is to warm someone who has reversed their diabetes that it is coming back before the BG start to increase.

(It's a useful number for a researcher to compare groups of people on different diets etc, so if the NHS did it for everyone it may be very useful to have in the national datasets.)
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I think leptin levels may have to be measured at same time as like thyroid results and cholesterol one level of part of the picture does tell the whole story!
 
Am I being dumb here? If this is a fasting test and tests only fasting insulin, this just shows what our basal insulin is. It says nothing about how much we produce in phase 1 and phase 2 after eating.

If you run in the 4s and 5s overnight, and have no liver dump when you get out of bed, surely this shows your basal insulin is working well?
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Am I being dumb here? If this is a fasting test and tests only fasting insulin, this just shows what our basal insulin is. It says nothing about how much we produce in phase 1 and phase 2 after eating.

If you run in the 4s and 5s overnight, and have no liver dump when you get out of bed, surely this shows your basal insulin is working well?
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I'm sure basal helps with phase 1 and 2 too.
So 2 tests needed but fasting insulin after a decent fast will give basal lack and then none fasting in eating a meal which takes less than 20mins. Anything over 20mins is leptin test nightmare too. Satiety after 20mins is ignored hunger apparently.
 
@bulkbiker. When I went for my last check up - and had a good solid heart to heart with my GP - and having private medical insurance and being prepared to pay myself - he had no idea how on earth I would do an insulin test nor a insulin resistance test! In all his years of practice no one has ever asked for them before.

I am really really interested in a lot of these tests. I do not understand the mechanics of how they work mind you. In particular how do they measure insulin resistance I wonder? Would they not need to have some control variables - like how much glucose was put into the blood? Mind blowing.

Let us know how it goes.
 
ickihun said:
I'm sure basal helps with phase 1 and 2 too.
So 2 tests needed but fasting insulin after a decent fast will give basal lack and then none fasting in eating a meal which takes less than 20mins. Anything over 20mins is leptin test nightmare too. Satiety after 20mins is ignored hunger apparently.
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I agree in part, but the main job of basal is to keep BS stable and level throughout the night and between meals. The pancreas drip feeds insulin in small amounts. It works hand in hand with the liver. The liver sends out glucose when it thinks we are too low, either overnight or between meals when we needs a bit more energy. The basal's job is to tackle this liver glucose. If we don't see or notice spikes from liver dumps, the basal is sufficient. When we eat, the pancreas produces large amounts in 2 separate responses that dwarf the amount of basal.

I would rather know my post meal insulin responses, so an OGTT seems appropriate for this. I know I don't have noticeable liver dumps overnight, morning, or between meals (if I don't exercise), and I am low and flat overnight and before meals. I assume from this my basal works fine so no need for a test. I am thus wondering why @bulkbiker is wanting one considering his normal excellent levels. Unless I am missing something?
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Am I being dumb here? If this is a fasting test and tests only fasting insulin, this just shows what our basal insulin is. It says nothing about how much we produce in phase 1 and phase 2 after eating.

If you run in the 4s and 5s overnight, and have no liver dump when you get out of bed, surely this shows your basal insulin is working well?
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No true but the basal level of insulin in Type 2's is often elevated (or so I have read) so the test can show how bad my insulin resistance may be.. I agree if I had know about all these tests when first diagnosed I would probably have had them done so that I had a baseline. However I still will be interested to see where my levels are. I'll certainly let you now once I get the results.
 
bulkbiker said:
Just found that Medichecks offer it for £39.00 so have sent off for the kit.
Brighton private hospital £139.00 !
Will report back when it arrives.
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Hi BB. I just looked at the site and they do LDL Subfractions for £199. You have to go up to London for the test, so that's an extra cost, but I will definitely consider it. On the other hand, do I need bad news?
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I agree in part, but the main job of basal is to keep BS stable and level throughout the night and between meals. The pancreas drip feeds insulin in small amounts. It works hand in hand with the liver. The liver sends out glucose when it thinks we are too low, either overnight or between meals when we needs a bit more energy. The basal's job is to tackle this liver glucose. If we don't see or notice spikes from liver dumps, the basal is sufficient. When we eat, the pancreas produces large amounts in 2 separate responses that dwarf the amount of basal.

I would rather know my post meal insulin responses, so an OGTT seems appropriate for this. I know I don't have noticeable liver dumps overnight, morning, or between meals (if I don't exercise), and I am low and flat overnight and before meals. I assume from this my basal works fine so no need for a test. I am thus wondering why @bulkbiker is wanting one considering his normal excellent levels. Unless I am missing something?
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I can only speak for myself but just because knowledge is power!
If given accurate info then I could test against it to improve my situation. Maybe @bulkbiker was thinking the same?
 
@Bluetit1802

a fasting insulin test will (as I understand it) show how much insulin is needed as background insulin.
For someone with low insulin resistance, that will be very little.
For someone with high insulin resistance, they may need 5 or 10 times the insulin to achieve the same blood glucose levels.

Since insulin resistance, and high insulin levels in the body have serious long term health implications, knowing the amount of insulin required to have an 'OK' blood glucose reading is pretty important to me.

I know I have quite a lot of insulin resistance, and fighting a nebulous maybe is difficult.
If I get a number, a metric, I can work with that. Both as a short term motivation, and a longer term comparison.

Currently, I reduce my IR by intermittent fasting, dog walking (not strenuous) and low carbing. If I got a result from that test that showed my IR was still at seriously harmful levels, I could see myself pushing harder for a Metformin prescription, and maybe, just maybe, doing some more hardcore exercise. It would all depend on what that test result was.

My PCOS, prolactinoma and obesity set me up for insulin resistance, then there is the blood glucose shenanigans, and the medication I take for the prolactinoma increases the insulin resistance further. It makes me high risk for a number of insulin related issues further down the line...
 
bulkbiker said:
No true but the basal level of insulin in Type 2's is often elevated (or so I have read) so the test can show how bad my insulin resistance may be.. I agree if I had know about all these tests when first diagnosed I would probably have had them done so that I had a baseline. However I still will be interested to see where my levels are. I'll certainly let you now once I get the results.
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The more insulin resistant the higher the above normal basal level, I understand.
 
Brunneria said:
@Bluetit1802

a fasting insulin test will (as I understand it) show how much insulin is needed as background insulin.
For someone with low insulin resistance, that will be very little.
For someone with high insulin resistance, they may need 5 or 10 times the insulin to achieve the same blood glucose levels.

Since insulin resistance, and insulin levels in the body have serious long term health implications, knowing the amount of insulin required to have an 'OK' blood glucose reading is pretty important to me.

I know I have quite a lot of insulin resistance, and fighting a nebulous maybe is difficult.
If I get a number, a metric, I can work with that. Both as a short term motivation, and a longer term comparison.

Currently, I reduce my IR by intermittent fasting, dog walking (not strenuous) and low carbing. If I got a result from that test that showed my IR was still at seriously harmful levels, I could see myself pushing harder for a Metformin prescription, and maybe, just maybe, doing some more hardcore exercise. It would all depend on what that test result was.

My PCOS, prolactinoma and obesity set me up for insulin resistance, and the medication I take for the prolactinoma increases the insulin resistance further. It makes me high risk for a number of insulin related issues further down the line...
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It would definitely prove the need for metformin @Brunneria . I honestly believe a private endocrologist would consider your clinical need for metformin currently. An appointment and private script maybe enough to get the nhs to agree it too.
 
Brunneria said:
@Bluetit1802

a fasting insulin test will (as I understand it) show how much insulin is needed as background insulin.
For someone with low insulin resistance, that will be very little.
For someone with high insulin resistance, they may need 5 or 10 times the insulin to achieve the same blood glucose levels.

Since insulin resistance, and high insulin levels in the body have serious long term health implications, knowing the amount of insulin required to have an 'OK' blood glucose reading is pretty important to me.

I know I have quite a lot of insulin resistance, and fighting a nebulous maybe is difficult.
If I get a number, a metric, I can work with that. Both as a short term motivation, and a longer term comparison.

Currently, I reduce my IR by intermittent fasting, dog walking (not strenuous) and low carbing. If I got a result from that test that showed my IR was still at seriously harmful levels, I could see myself pushing harder for a Metformin prescription, and maybe, just maybe, doing some more hardcore exercise. It would all depend on what that test result was.

My PCOS, prolactinoma and obesity set me up for insulin resistance, then there is the blood glucose shenanigans, and the medication I take for the prolactinoma increases the insulin resistance further. It makes me high risk for a number of insulin related issues further down the line...
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Thank you. A perfect explanation. I knew I must be missing something, and I was. So thank you. :)
 
Thanks BT :D

Actually, if I were you, I would be really interested in the test result too.

I mean, you have lost a third of your body weight, but you haven't reversed.

If the test showed that you have high fasting insulin, then it shows insulin resistance. But if your fasting insulin is normal, or even low, then maybe your non-reversal is beta cell damage, and your insulin production has dropped.

Of course, that is pure speculation on my part and there are probably other possibilities that I don't know about, but it might offer at least a partial answer.
 
Brunneria said:
Thanks BT :D

Actually, if I were you, I would be really interested in the test result too.

I mean, you have lost a third of your body weight, but you haven't reversed.

If the test showed that you have high fasting insulin, then it shows insulin resistance. But if your fasting insulin is normal, or even low, then maybe your non-reversal is beta cell damage, and your insulin production has dropped.

Of course, that is pure speculation on my part and there are probably other possibilities that I don't know about, but it might offer at least a partial answer.
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I have just read the Medicheck instructions. It needs one heck of a lot of blood from finger pricks :bigtears: I struggle to get enough for my testing, so I will wait to see how @bulkbiker gets on and then have a think.
 
I'm considering asking at my next review.

Knowing if you are insulin resistant seems important especially if it is linked to visceral fat.

There are a number of possibly interlinked issues with fatty liver and stuff and it would be good to know where to focus. Do I go Newcastle Diet?

If I'm just a **** insulin producer that is a different kettle of fish; consider if I need to burn my pancreas out then go onto insulin, for example.

We shall see. It would be good if you could just pay for extra tests via your local GP instead of having to trek off to some specialist place miles away.
 
This is one of those threads where the more I read the more ignorant I feel.
So - are you saying that even if you have really good BG and do that through healthy eating, that you still might be producing too much insulin - even basal insulin and that is really bad for you?

If that is true could you conclude that you may well be producing too much insulin if your BG drops really low between meals (I think it is ideal to be at 4.7)?
 
bulkbiker said:
Oops have I missed something..lots of finger squeezing coming up?
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I'd think hands in a lovely warm bowl of water would be a good thing, and choose your "best" finger. I mean, we all have one, don't we?

@Bluetit1802 - Blue Horizon do the test too, but using venous blood. As you have a decent relationship with your practice nurse, do you think she would draw the blood for you at the time you have your next HbA1c, or other bloods done?

Since thinking of having some tests myself (although not this one), I have found a medic who would be happy to do the venous draw for me.
 
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