Foods which are high in sugar and/or fat should be eaten in small quantities according to the Eatwell guidelines. And as Prof Taylor and his fellow researchers and the participants are following those guidelines for the weeks 12-18 and also in the event of any participant falling off the wagon and putting on weight, I would assume that the individual diet prescribed for weeks 19 to 104 is not too dissimilar from the Eatwell plate.
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Prof Roy Taylor's work on reversing type 2 diabetes
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Foods which are high in sugar and/or fat should be eaten in small quantities according to the Eatwell guidelines. And as Prof Taylor and his fellow researchers and the participants are following those guidelines for the weeks 12-18 and also in the event of any participant falling off the wagon and putting on weight, I would assume that the individual diet prescribed for weeks 19 to 104 is not too dissimilar from the Eatwell plate.
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I gave the link above, but here it is again
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/direct-protocol.pdf
I will quote the relevant bits.
On page 5 we have:
"Food reintroduction phase (weeks 12–18)
The FR phase includes a stepped transition to a food based diet based on the “Eatwell” guidelines [24] while reducing TDR."
And opposite on the same page we have what happens to participants who gain weight in the 19-104 weeks phase:-
"Individualised dietary advice, based on the Eatwell guidelines [24], and physical activity targets will be reinforced for weight loss maintenance."
For the avoidance of any doubt there is no mention of avoiding any particular food group, nor is there any mention of LCHF as far as I can see.
The regime seems to be, lose weight rapidly, revert slowly to normal eating in accordance with the Eatwell plate, keep the weight off.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/direct-protocol.pdf
I will quote the relevant bits.
On page 5 we have:
"Food reintroduction phase (weeks 12–18)
The FR phase includes a stepped transition to a food based diet based on the “Eatwell” guidelines [24] while reducing TDR."
And opposite on the same page we have what happens to participants who gain weight in the 19-104 weeks phase:-
"Individualised dietary advice, based on the Eatwell guidelines [24], and physical activity targets will be reinforced for weight loss maintenance."
For the avoidance of any doubt there is no mention of avoiding any particular food group, nor is there any mention of LCHF as far as I can see.
The regime seems to be, lose weight rapidly, revert slowly to normal eating in accordance with the Eatwell plate, keep the weight off.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
The link is here which is the food to be avoided list according to their site.
Nothing to do with my own opinion on it - just the facts on the site.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/sample-recipes.pdf
Nothing to do with my own opinion on it - just the facts on the site.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/sample-recipes.pdf
Fleegle
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When I corresponded directly with Professor Taylor in 2014, I asked him about his recommendations for the follow on diet, and he stated (I'm paraphrasing here as it would be inappropriate to copy and paste his email without his permission) he had no real preference for the ongoing diet, as that clearly had to be patient specific to be long-term, but he did say that a reduced carb diet did seem fairly popular.
For clarification, I didn't do the ND, but was curious about definitions of reversed and assessment rationale.
For clarification, I didn't do the ND, but was curious about definitions of reversed and assessment rationale.
I think this is the food to be avoided IF AND ONLY IF you are living on the shakes. The shakes diet does permit a few low carb veg as well - up to 200 cal worth. Pro Taylor is quoted in Mosley's 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet book as saying that if you can do the 800 cal diet using real food so much the better - go ahead. This makes sense when you remember that the diet it was designed to imitate was the diet used by post bariatric patients, who would of course be using real food.
B
badcat
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One thing that puzzles me about the "foods to be avoided" list and which makes me think its all about maintaining consistency between research subjects, is the inclusion of milk on the list. A major componant of all of the shakes is milk / milk powder
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Tomorrow I shall have completed 4 weeks of my lenient version of ND: 900 to 1000 cals of real food. The best I can manage. I am NOT enjoying it. I am hungry a lot and feeling very down. I have lost some weight but not a huge amount. I think I shall probably have to do it for a total of 16 weeks to lose 15% of my weight, which is the Newcastle objective. Maybe I shall only be able to lose 10% in that time. I broke the diet one day only, when I went out for the day and ate sandwiches (carbs), and my FBG went up for a couple of mornings afterwards. So I know that I still can't tolerate carbs properly. Not that I would expect any results after such a short time. Onwards and Upwards
Bluetit1802
Legend
I do really feel for everyone struggling to lose weight and having to do these very low calorie diets. There have to be very good reasons, metabolically speaking, why some struggle and others find it easy on low carb, in my case low carb combined with restricted calories but around the 1200 mark.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
However anyone wants to do their own version they should. I strongly suspect that in December in the presentation at the US diabetes forum Prof T will say - any diet will do - eat whatever you like - shakes are just a mechanic of the research. Until then though, the only facts on the controlled study is that it was shakes and a no eat list. I think that is important for anyone who is reading the threads thinking about what the ND diet is as opposed to any other diet.
It strikes me that the real problem isn't what you eat, weight lost or calorie intake - these are just musings, it is the knowledge that 1. you have a really fatty pancreas and more importantly 2. you have done what you need to do to get rid of that fat.
I have lost well over 15% of my weight - delighted with my results thanks to the forum but my Insulin response is as bad today as it was when I was 18% heavier. I am just managing it through a really strict diet. So the 15% thing is as random as whether it should be shakes or meat. I suspect this is because I have not cleared the pancreas and not reached (and this is the second killer) my own fat threshold. How on earth I know what that is I am stumped.
It strikes me that the real problem isn't what you eat, weight lost or calorie intake - these are just musings, it is the knowledge that 1. you have a really fatty pancreas and more importantly 2. you have done what you need to do to get rid of that fat.
I have lost well over 15% of my weight - delighted with my results thanks to the forum but my Insulin response is as bad today as it was when I was 18% heavier. I am just managing it through a really strict diet. So the 15% thing is as random as whether it should be shakes or meat. I suspect this is because I have not cleared the pancreas and not reached (and this is the second killer) my own fat threshold. How on earth I know what that is I am stumped.
S
serenity648
Guest
I am finding (purely my own experience) that what i eat is as important as the calories I eat. If I eat, for example, 1000 cals a day for a week, with an equal mixture of protein, fat and carbs, I dont lose weight. If i eat the same amount but with 50% carbs, I gain weight, and if i eat the same calories but only 25% carbs, I lose weight
I dont know why this is. But its what happens to me, through trials and checking and experimenting with good record keeping over about 18 months now.
I dont know why this is. But its what happens to me, through trials and checking and experimenting with good record keeping over about 18 months now.
Were you diagnosed 4th May this year? If so do you think you could have had type 2 for much longer than that? If you have had it for more than 8 years there is only a 50% chance that ND will work.I would guess that you will know if it has worked if you can eat normal carbs for your size and still have an acceptable 2 hr BG reading.
CherryAA
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please read the thread -
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/you-can-measure-your-own-insulin-resistance.126095/
It will be interesting to see if Prof Taylor publishes the Trigs and Fasting BG at the start and finish of the experiments. Hopefully he will .
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
Yes this year. No symptoms though some appeared within weeks of diagnosis - I got really dry skin which went when I lowered bg - foot pain which largely went. I did notice so me scars that had not healed so well - pink tinge rather than back to flesh colour - they were about 6montys old.
Impossible to say - but including change in moods and weight gain / lack of being fit I would say between 8 months min and five years max more like 2 we think. Blood pressure etc from 5 years ago good.
I'm trying to guess how long I've had it. Exhaustion, and getting up in the night goes back to 2013. I'm just hoping I've not had it too long for weight loss to reverse it. Hence doing ND at the moment.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
The link was very interesting and now I understand the relevance of knowing the trigs pre and post diet.
It would be great to have anonymised but really detailed blood test results through his entire large scale experiment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v6vsrB_dlUzI= Fleegle - this is a rather long lecture by Prof Taylor. If you can wait for replies to questions at the end he says, " You do it by drastically reducing the amount you eat, but if you find that difficult to judge you can use the liquid diet" And,"the ONLY thing that matters is the average calorie intake over a period of time" And, "the actual composition of the diet is the least important thing"
