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Expalin it to me like I'm a 5 year old.

There is no Spoon

There is no Spoon

Well-Known Member
Messages
734
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi everyone, new here and I have a quick question that I don't seem to be getting I keep going round and round in circles.

Insulin Resistant so should I be trying to increase or reduce my insulin levels??

I was diagnosed Type 2 about 4 moths ago, and I know its more complex that this but what I heard is "your diabetic so you need to cut you sugar intake down or you will go blind and well cut of your feet"
So I stopped taking sugar and watched everything I ate cutting it down to about 5 grams (that I knew of) or less a day. In that short time I have gone from XXL to a medium. (one top was XXXL but we will blame poor manufacturing for that one).

The little fat diabetic nurse who told me that "yes Diabetic is reversible but thats not a very realistic aspiration" gave me some pamphlets and I'm sure said some other things but by then I had tuned her out. I had this mental picture of her inhaling a cream bun and chugging down a can of coke as she lectured me about weight loss. And her opening comment was still stuck in my craw "Welcome to the diabetics club" said with such cheerful glee that it did cross my mind to follow her home and kill her cat ;-)

Any way putting the homicidal impulses to one side for just now I went on line read what I could but I was a bit slow on the uptake it took till now for it to sink in the role carbs play.
There is just too much information to absorb at the beginning but I have a good understanding of the Liver and Pancreas how my body converts food in to sugar and how that sugar is used as energy or stored as fat. The roles of muscle activation through exercise, intermittent fasting, low carb and/or ketosis diets, stress, and sleep and how they all play a part. But the one thing I keep going round in circles on is:

Insulin Resistant so should I be trying to increase or reduce my insulin levels??
 
Have you ever had your insulin levels measured? It's quite unusual in the UK (assuming that's where you are).
For most of us we try to keep our blood sugar levels under control and use those as a proxy for insulin levels.
What you really should be aiming to do is make your body more sensitive to insulin thus reducing resistance and regaining a more "normal" response to foods.
This is apparently best achieved, in my experience, by cutting down on carbohydrate consumption which can often lead to weight loss (being overweight is often a symptom of insulin resistance).
 
Sorry cant be of any technical help Spoon I am new too but I LOVE my cats so could I ask you to instead put thumb tacks under her wheels! Good luck and take care.
 
Reduce. Simply put, too much insulin sloshing about causes harm. As you lower the intake of carbohydrates in your diet then (eventually) the lower the amount of insulin is needed to deal with the glucose that carbs are turned into. This really is oversimplified. For a better, clearer explanation you could search for Dr. Jason Fung's analogy of the tube train system in Japan. (It is on my blog on this site).

Your opening post did make me smile except for the comment about aspirations by your DN. Reversal to non Diabetic levels is possible and many, many people acheive it. Diabetes does not have to be the chronic disease that some health care professionals deem it to be. Welcome to the *Real* Club!
 
High insulin levels cause insulin resistance.
Insulin resistance causes high circulating insulin.
Vicious circle.

Low circulating insulin levels are desirable as this will improve insulin resistance, and will aid general health and weightloss. High insulin levels are inflammatory, damage the heart, and carry fat to the fat cells thus increasing weight.

The trick is to eat foods that trigger as little insulin response as possible.
Carbs and most fruit are the worst culprits for triggering high insulin response.
 
I agree it's confusing! We want to lower our insulin. I suggest looking up Dr Jason Fung on YouTube. Also, Prof Roy Taylor. And the dietdoctor.com website! The diabetic nurse at my practice is a horror too. She kept telling me we NEED carbs. I had quite the argument with her about it. She made a right mess of my arm whilst taking blood.... had a massive bruise about 3 inches in diameter for over a week! I suspect it was deliberate. Just made it all the sweeter when my A1c came back at 30! (4.9) Best of luck to you.
 
Oh, and less of the cat killing patter, or else I'll set one of my humungous Maine Coons on you
 
Incyb said:
I agree it's confusing! We want to lower our insulin. I suggest looking up Dr Jason Fung on YouTube. Also, Prof Roy Taylor. And the dietdoctor.com website! The diabetic nurse at my practice is a horror too. She kept telling me we NEED carbs. I had quite the argument with her about it. She made a right mess of my arm whilst taking blood.... had a massive bruise about 3 inches in diameter for over a week! I suspect it was deliberate. Just made it all the sweeter when my A1c came back at 30! (4.9) Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

Great work on your A1c. I have number envy :)
 
Others can explain things much better than I can, but I loved your post.

I'm currently having slightly evil thoughts regarding my GP's receptionist who tried every argument she could to persuade me that I didn't need an appointment for a 3-month blood draw "because that's not our policy anymore - we do them around your birthday once a year". Apparently without looking up my notes or anything. When I insisted I did, and the GP had told me I did, and there was also a GAD test outstanding that had been ordered but not done last time so I can't wait another 10 months till my birthday, she put me on hold (and I imagine her just doing it for fun and then filing her nails), then came back and said, "I'll make an appointment for you THIS TIME".

I mean, really, who makes appointments for blood draws if they don't need to??
 
Incyb said:
I agree it's confusing! We want to lower our insulin. I suggest looking up Dr Jason Fung on YouTube. Also, Prof Roy Taylor. And the dietdoctor.com website! The diabetic nurse at my practice is a horror too. She kept telling me we NEED carbs. I had quite the argument with her about it. She made a right mess of my arm whilst taking blood.... had a massive bruise about 3 inches in diameter for over a week! I suspect it was deliberate. Just made it all the sweeter when my A1c came back at 30! (4.9) Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...
I also have number envy!! but I don't see my nurse just the hospital doctors. and I don't have cats just English Bulldogs (who I look like:bag:) mind you the last nurse I seen couldn't fit on the chair, and proceeded to tell me I was too fat at 15st (at that point I had lost 8st) she didn't like it when I said if your not careful you might end up diabetic!
 
Just came across these 2 youtube presentation today. It has some nice information about the state of T2D beta cells.

Most of us T2D have less functional beta cells than we would like...after we had spent years perhaps decades exhausting them. So consider a lifestyle that makes the most of what is left. It would be prudent to use our remaining insulin judicially.


 
bulkbiker said:
Have you ever had your insulin levels measured? It's quite unusual in the UK (assuming that's where you are).
For most of us we try to keep our blood sugar levels under control and use those as a proxy for insulin levels.
What you really should be aiming to do is make your body more sensitive to insulin thus reducing resistance and regaining a more "normal" response to foods.
This is apparently best achieved, in my experience, by cutting down on carbohydrate consumption which can often lead to weight loss (being overweight is often a symptom of insulin resistance).
Click to expand...

Is that you with a picture of Dr Fung? Cool.
Have you ever had your insulin levels measured? Haven't got a clue so I'm gona assume no. About a month or so after I was diagnosed I went for a follow up blood test no body told me I was supposed to fast I had a sandwich about 3am ( ok full disclosure a couple of sandwiches a packet of crisp and 2 chocolate bikkies) the night before and a couple of cups of coffee in the morning and my blood sugar levels had gone down from about 8 to just under 5 what so I figured I was on the right track and left it at that.
 
kokhongw said:
Just came across these 2 youtube presentation today. It has some nice information about the state of T2D beta cells.

Most of us T2D have less functional beta cells than we would like...after we had spent years perhaps decades exhausting them. So consider a lifestyle that makes the most of what is left. It would be prudent to use our remaining insulin judicially.


Click to expand...

Excellent presentations, thank you for posting these as I havn't seen them before.
 
PenguinMum said:
Sorry cant be of any technical help Spoon I am new too but I LOVE my cats so could I ask you to instead put thumb tacks under her wheels! Good luck and take care.
Click to expand...

Ahhh Pengie thats a much sweeter and kinder soloution to the situation but ultamatly lacking. How can a burst tyre ever equat to the unhealing scar the dead cat would leave on this womans soul.

The anger and distrust of her fellow man would fester untill it ultamatly turned inward triggering the inevitable spiral in to dispair and selfthloaving, pushing away thouse closest to her. Left with nothning and no one to turn to except the house full of cats, that she has despratly clung to in a futile atampt to replace the emptyness brought on by the death of her cat. While all the time secretly resenting them for not beign Her Cat. Living in pepetual fear the they too will die and leave her alone.

It is this soul distroying lonlyness that I feel is lacking in your plan. :)
(P.s. no cats imaganery or otherwise were harmed in the making of this post.)
 
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There is no Spoon said:
Is that you with a picture of Dr Fung? Cool.
Have you ever had your insulin levels measured? Haven't got a clue so I'm gona assume no. About a month or so after I was diagnosed I went for a follow up blood test no body told me I was supposed to fast I had a sandwich about 3am ( ok full disclosure a couple of sandwiches a packet of crisp and 2 chocolate bikkies) the night before and a couple of cups of coffee in the morning and my blood sugar levels had gone down from about 8 to just under 5 what so I figured I was on the right track and left it at that.
Click to expand...
Yep that's me and the good (I would say great) Dr.
If the follow up test was another HbA1c (the usual diagnostic) then you don't need to fast for it.
You say the results had gone from 8 to 5 but was that a finger prick test or a full blood draw?
 
Guzzler said:
Reduce. Simply put, too much insulin sloshing about causes harm. As you lower the intake of carbohydrates in your diet then (eventually) the lower the amount of insulin is needed to deal with the glucose that carbs are turned into. This really is oversimplified. For a better, clearer explanation you could search for Dr. Jason Fung's analogy of the tube train system in Japan. (It is on my blog on this site).

Your opening post did make me smile except for the comment about aspirations by your DN. Reversal to non Diabetic levels is possible and many, many people acheive it. Diabetes does not have to be the chronic disease that some health care professionals deem it to be. Welcome to the *Real* Club!
Click to expand...

"Reduce. Simply put, too much insulin sloshing about causes harm."
Hi Guzzler,
Thanks for the reply interesting video. there is a similar guy in the UK Dr Michael Mosley promoting exactly the same ideas with one additional aspect Insulins primary job is to supply the muscles with energy from the sugar in the blood.

As I understand it, you body turns every thing it can into sugar (especialy carbs) to use as energy of store as energy for later i.e. Fat. By activating these muscle groups they become more receptive to the affects of insulin, siphoning of more energy even when not in use( because the body understands they will be used) thus putting less emphasis on covering excess sugar/energy into fat to be store for use later.
This in turn reduces the strain on your liver absorbing this energy and turning it into fat, allowing it to break down the bodys own fat supply for the normal day to day energy needs. Thus weight loss.

But I keep hearing that Insulin Resistance mean that the muscles have become resistant, through lack of use, So now that they are activated wouldn't it hold logically that: IF they are no no-longer insulin resistant and therefore increasing insulin production would convert more and more resources to the muscles. More effectively draining the fat from the Liver, as with Ketosis creating an essential artificial fasting state.

Then the only logical assumption as part of a balanced program of controlled carb intake and exercise this increased insulin sensitivity would mean as you said that it would not be sloshing about causing harm but the exact opposite.

SO you can see where I going round on circles on this one to much insulin is bad, so lower insulin but lowered insulin wont feed the muscles and improve the reduction of liver fat.

Or have I just completely got this one wrong??:bag:
 
Ah..the mad cat woman! At least my plan would benefit the other diabetics at her clinic and put a smile on their faces when another nurse turns up. Thinking about it you could repeat it if successful (not that I am advocating crime here) obs.
 
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