Thyamin/thiamine supplement dose

[LittleGreyCat]

I have read in other threads that long term use of Metformin can lead to Thiamine defficiency and some are taking a supplement to counter this.
The RDA is around 1.1 mg per day.
I picked up a B complex vitamin in Lidl which includes 1.1 mg of Thiamine. However Holland and Barrett (other pill pushers are available) sell 100 mg pills.
NICE guidelines for treatment of a deficiency also suggest 50-100 mg once a day.
I was wondering why you need around 100 times the RDA as a dose. Is it because the defficiency is linked to poor uptake and/or retention of Thiamine?

 

[Bombjack]

The kidneys are responsible for "reclaiming" some vitamins before they are excreted. Researchers found a massively increased renal clearance rate of Thiamine in both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-007-0771-4
https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_find_vitamin/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18220605
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376872/

In human clinical trials of Thiamine, in order to correct early diabetic Nephropathy, doses of 100mg 3 times a day were used. These "megadoses" are required if the kidneys aren't reclaiming unused Thiamine.

https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/vitamin_b1_could/

Given there are no downsides to high-dose Thiamine supplementation, I take it on the offchance it's doing some good for my biochemistry. If there is a deficiency in diabetes, it's either because you're losing too much, or using too much of something. Either way, the deficiency should be sorted out.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

The kidneys are responsible for "reclaiming" some vitamins before they are excreted. Researchers found a massively increased renal clearance rate of Thiamine in both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-007-0771-4
https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_find_vitamin/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18220605
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376872/

In human clinical trials of Thiamine, in order to correct early diabetic Nephropathy, doses of 100mg 3 times a day were used. These "megadoses" are required if the kidneys aren't reclaiming unused Thiamine.

https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/vitamin_b1_could/

Given there are no downsides to high-dose Thiamine supplementation, I take it on the offchance it's doing some good for my biochemistry. If there is a deficiency in diabetes, it's either because you're losing too much, or using too much of something. Either way, the deficiency should be sorted out.

I'm now wondering if there are any people here who have seen signs of Nephropathy, taken Thiamine, and seen the symptoms reversed.

Otherwise there is no anecdotal proof that it works.

 

[Bombjack]

I'm now wondering if there are any people here who have seen signs of Nephropathy, taken Thiamine, and seen the symptoms reversed.

Otherwise there is no anecdotal proof that it works.

I'd like to know that too. But, the dosage is so high it's unlikely anyone will have taken enough I'd have thought.

It's a crying shame we haven't seen any definitive studies on this - studies that go on for years rather than months. Who would fund it though?

 

[NewTD2]

Thiamine is another name for Vitamin B1.

Yes, Metformin depletes the Vitamin Bs in our body so I was advised by my doctor to take x1 pill of Vitamin B Complex daily before I had gone into remission.

 

[eddie1968]

I'm now wondering if there are any people here who have seen signs of Nephropathy, taken Thiamine, and seen the symptoms reversed.

Otherwise there is no anecdotal proof that it works.

Don’t really know as I was started on medication for my nephropathy whilst taking 300mg B1 daily. Interesting question.

 

[Bombjack]

Don’t really know as I was started on medication for my nephropathy whilst taking 300mg B1 daily. Interesting question.

So you were already on 300mg daily of Thiamine - presumably you didn't notice any improvementa in your nephropathy while taking it then? Wondering if you're still taking the B1, or if you think it made any difference at all?

 

[eddie1968]

So you were already on 300mg daily of Thiamine - presumably you didn't notice any improvementa in your nephropathy while taking it then? Wondering if you're still taking the B1, or if you think it made any difference at all?

Yes I take 300mg B1 due to extensive GI surgery and resections. That was in 2012 so been taking it ever since that. My Albumin/Creatine ratio was 33 in 2015 and was started on Ramipril and Spironolactone. My ACR in 2017 was 16 so a slight improvement but NHS reference values say your ACR should be < 3. Methinks my kidneys are still not functioning properly.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

I have read in other threads that long term use of Metformin can lead to Thiamine defficiency and some are taking a supplement to counter this.

I take 3 x 100 mg of Betamin every day as suggested by my GP and ongoing blood tests. I was taking these before I started on Metformin.

I noticed there is a recall notice on this brand at the moment, and have been taking the same amount of Betavit. These certainly taste and smell better than Betamin do.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Just started the 100 mg a day from H&B.
I've no real idea how to measure any difference; should I expect a slightly better GFR?
I am following the "if it does you no good it will do you no harm" approach.