LCHF, why am I not losing weight?

[AdamJames]

The fluid retention thing is definitely worth taking up with your doctor.

In 2005-06 I lost 35 kg/5.5 stone. It was sort of low fat high carb, and I lost about 1 - 1,5kg pr. week. The carbs were all from veggies, 300g x 2/day, and the proteins were restricted to lean meat/fish and 120g for lunch and 170g for supper.

I think sometimes you've got to take your own advice - i.e. accept your own observations about what works for you.

Set a time limit to try any new way of eating to see if it gets good results for you, but don't keep sticking at anything indefinitely just because it works for other people. The time limit may need to be quite long in some cases, e.g. some people seem to take a long time to adapt to keto, but you need to decide how long to give yourself.

I was getting my fastest weight loss results, and feeling just fine in terms of what I was eating, when I was in the habit of 'padding out each meal with a ton of veg' (except for breakfast!) - I'd avoid the obvious high-carb vegetables like potatoes of course, but generally, for packed lunches at work and evening meals, I'd have a small bit of something with a satisfying taste and plenty of fat and protein - chicken, belly pork, bacon, sausage, whatever, then pad it out with a big pile of things like broccoli, asparagus, green leaves / spinach, celery, plum tomatoes, mini peppers, mushrooms etc etc.

I didn't carb count the vegetables at that time, but had noticed a while back that I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg, it didn't seem to spike my sugars - presumably because it was so hard for my body to digest the food and get to the carbs?

I think the important thing is that currently your blood sugars before-and-after meals looks excellent, and so long as you can keep them around that level, you can afford to experiment with diet. 'Big veg' has clearly worked for you before, the question is will it work now, without raising your blood sugars too much? If you can combine 'big veg' with still having plenty of fat and protein, you may find a balance that works well for you.

 

[briped]

It's quite unusual as almost everyone who goes low carb sees a sudden loss of water weight when they start.
There must be something that is causing the retention but I'm afraid I don't know what it could be.. hormonal, monthly visitor? I would say tho that it would explain your weight gain and should be temporary.. are you having extra salt?

I know it's not the monthly 'issue' as my eggs are way past sell by date. I'm 57. Well, I don't know either, but I've had the problem for many years without being able to find a pattern. Suddenly one morning I'll wake up, and my feet will look skinny again. No, I'm not having extra salt either.

Googling stuff can give you US info which includes fibre in the total carb count which can be misleading also they are very dubious on "portion" size ...

Useful info, thanks. I hadn't given that a thought.

No idea what Danish supermarkets do though...

Oh I do. They sell their goods at exorbitant prices. I don't believe they have nutritional info on their web sites. This one is probably better than just googling, though. http://www.foodcomp.dk/v7/fvdb_details.asp?FoodId=0011

 

[briped]

The fluid retention thing is definitely worth taking up with your doctor.



I think sometimes you've got to take your own advice - i.e. accept your own observations about what works for you.

Set a time limit to try any new way of eating to see if it gets good results for you, but don't keep sticking at anything indefinitely just because it works for other people. The time limit may need to be quite long in some cases, e.g. some people seem to take a long time to adapt to keto, but you need to decide how long to give yourself.

I was getting my fastest weight loss results, and feeling just fine in terms of what I was eating, when I was in the habit of 'padding out each meal with a ton of veg' (except for breakfast!) - I'd avoid the obvious high-carb vegetables like potatoes of course, but generally, for packed lunches at work and evening meals, I'd have a small bit of something with a satisfying taste and plenty of fat and protein - chicken, belly pork, bacon, sausage, whatever, then pad it out with a big pile of things like broccoli, asparagus, green leaves / spinach, celery, plum tomatoes, mini peppers, mushrooms etc etc.

I didn't carb count the vegetables at that time, but had noticed a while back that I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg, it didn't seem to spike my sugars - presumably because it was so hard for my body to digest the food and get to the carbs?

I think the important thing is that currently your blood sugars before-and-after meals looks excellent, and so long as you can keep them around that level, you can afford to experiment with diet. 'Big veg' has clearly worked for you before, the question is will it work now, without raising your blood sugars too much? If you can combine 'big veg' with still having plenty of fat and protein, you may find a balance that works well for you.

I'm thinking very much along the same lines as you! I will give this low carb diet a good while, perhaps a month from now, and see what happens while keeping a close eye on weight as well as BG. If it does turn out that my body is constructed in a very alternative way from those of the rest of the members of this forum, I will go back to stuffing myself with low carb veggies and lean meat, but oh how fed up I got with all those veggies Also I've become aware that I should expect weight loss to be slower at 57 years than it was at 44, much to my chagrin.

One thing I don't get is, and I'm quoting you here "I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg ...", how can a big pile of even low carb veggies be less than 20g of carbs? Either we don't agree on what a "big pile" is, or I'm seriously terrible at calculating them. The latter could well be the case.

About the fluid retention, I did consult my GP about it at least 10 years ago. As expected she prescribed some diuretic tablets, but I can't remember if this was before or after I was diagnosed. My kidneys are fine, but I'd rather not risk their health, and anyway, I know that suddenly someone will 'pull the plug', and most of it will be gone again. I also know my heart is fine, because a couple of years ago it was thoroughly examined because I'd had lung embolisms. No damage.

 

[briped]

Your weight gain could be caused by your fluid retention. You should see your GP so the cause can be investigated.

I know, and it's very likely to be just that, but if my weight (fat) is actually going down, I must be retaining more fluids as the scales don't show any difference.
About the fluid retention. I did consult my GP about it at least 10 years ago. As expected she prescribed some diuretic tablets, but I can't remember if this was before or after I was diagnosed. My kidneys are fine, but I'd rather not risk their health, and anyway, I know that suddenly someone will 'pull the plug', and most of it will be gone again. I also know my heart is fine, because a couple of years ago it was thoroughly examined because I'd had lung embolisms. No damage, thankfully

 

[Freema]

I know, and it's very likely to be just that, but if my weight (fat) is actually going down, I must be retaining more fluids as the scales don't show any difference.
About the fluid retention. I did consult my GP about it at least 10 years ago. As expected she prescribed some diuretic tablets, but I can't remember if this was before or after I was diagnosed. My kidneys are fine, but I'd rather not risk their health, and anyway, I know that suddenly someone will 'pull the plug', and most of it will be gone again. I also know my heart is fine, because a couple of years ago it was thoroughly examined because I'd had lung embolisms. No damage, thankfully

Maybe the statins and the insuline raising medicatin is also to Blaim for you lack of weight loss
If one has High insulin one cant lose weight or it is very difficult , but we are NOT allowed to give advice on medication

But if you stay very low in HbA1c Then maybe you GP Will take you OFF the insulin affecting meds

 

[bulkbiker]

I know it's not the monthly 'issue' as my eggs are way past sell by date. I'm 57. Well, I don't know either, but I've had the problem for many years without being able to find a pattern. Suddenly one morning I'll wake up, and my feet will look skinny again. No, I'm not having extra salt either.



Useful info, thanks. I hadn't given that a thought.



Oh I do. They sell their goods at exorbitant prices. I don't believe they have nutritional info on their web sites. This one is probably better than just googling, though. http://www.foodcomp.dk/v7/fvdb_details.asp?FoodId=0011

As your English is brilliant you might want to take a look at some UK webistes for nutrition info
The one I go to most is this - the avocado is just an example but fairly easy to read.
https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-1-perfectly-ripe-large-avocado/070278-35580-35581

My point about salt was you may not be having enough of it. When we change from processed foods to fresh home cooked produce unless we add some we may get deficient.. also as you flush out water (well hopefully you will) your salt levels may drop... I'm not sure of the exact science but I think this may cause water retention issues.. just a thought.

If you feel like it maybe sign up to www.ketogenicforums.com where they are huge amount of people and threads on just about everything that people have found problematic when doing keto. There is a huge amount of experience there as well as well over 50 threads on water retention...

 

[briped]

Maybe the statins and the insuline raising medicatin is also to Blaim for you lack of weight loss
If one has High insulin one cant lose weight or it is very difficult , but we are NOT allowed to give advice on medication

But if you stay very low in HbA1c Then maybe you GP Will take you OFF the insulin affecting meds

Lovely, comforting and useful thought! I will ask to have my bloods done in about 1½ month with exactly that in mind, to have my meds significantly reduced. I won't just do it without professional advice, of course. The reason why I'll wait is that I won't have my old disastrous readings influence my nice new ones. I believe that 3 months after the sky-rocketed ones should be ok?
One of the reasons I refused to go on insulin was exactly that, the fear of gaining weight, but the endo doc didn't think it would be a problem. Anyway, instead she raised my dosis of Jardiance.

 

[bulkbiker]

Anyway, instead she raised my dosis of Jardiance.

https://www.ehealthme.com/ds/jardiance/water-retention/

coincidence or?

 

[briped]

https://www.ehealthme.com/ds/jardiance/water-retention/

coincidence or?

Very interesting!!! For: Age, I'm also on metformin and lifelong Xarelto + raised dosis of Jardiance. Against: Have had the problem for 20+years. Lowered the Jardiance dosis from 20mg to 10mg daily when I saw my sugars dropping (shhh, don't tell anyone).
Very good to know, and a good argument for getting me of Jardiance. Will consult the endo experts first, though.

 

[AdamJames]

I'm thinking very much along the same lines as you! I will give this low carb diet a good while, perhaps a month from now, and see what happens while keeping a close eye on weight as well as BG. If it does turn out that my body is constructed in a very alternative way from those of the rest of the members of this forum, I will go back to stuffing myself with low carb veggies and lean meat, but oh how fed up I got with all those veggies Also I've become aware that I should expect weight loss to be slower at 57 years than it was at 44, much to my chagrin.

One thing I don't get is, and I'm quoting you here "I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg ...", how can a big pile of even low carb veggies be less than 20g of carbs? Either we don't agree on what a "big pile" is, or I'm seriously terrible at calculating them. The latter could well be the case.

About the fluid retention, I did consult my GP about it at least 10 years ago. As expected she prescribed some diuretic tablets, but I can't remember if this was before or after I was diagnosed. My kidneys are fine, but I'd rather not risk their health, and anyway, I know that suddenly someone will 'pull the plug', and most of it will be gone again. I also know my heart is fine, because a couple of years ago it was thoroughly examined because I'd had lung embolisms. No damage.

If you do go back to lots of low carb veg, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to start eating lean meat. It could be fatty meat (but less of it) or even fatty meat (and a decent amount). One interesting thing about 'big veg' is that it may increase the work your body needs to do in digestion, which itself burns calories. I think that's very much an individual thing and depends on gut bacteria and the veg you eat, and how it is cooked however.

I hear you about weight loss getting harder with time. For so many reasons. Not only does our resting metabolism fight it, but it's harder as we get older, and the double whammy is that we tend to get diagnosed with T2 when get get older. It's a battle!

Re veg and carb amount, the observation that I could have 20g of carbs from veg was made before I started consciously eating 'big veg' to pad out meals, and by that point I'd stopped carb counting. The big veg meals may have been more or less than 20g carbs.

I've just done an experiment now: I have broccoli and spinach in the fridge. I've put ALL of the broccoli heads on a plate (=275g), and a lot of spinach (=35g). Here's a photo - it's on a full-size plate. Obviously the broccoli would be a bit smaller once boiled / steamed for a while. I'd have the spinach raw:



I make that 12.5g carbs for the broccoli and 0.5g carbs for the spinach, so a total of 13g carbs. Plenty of carbs to spare for adding some baby plum tomatoes, peppers etc.

If I were to add, say, 2 sausages, or a couple of strips of belly pork, or a salmon fillet to that, I'd find that a very filling meal, with a fair bit of fat and protein, and a ton of veg. I'd still be hungry because I'm never not hungry, but there wouldn't actually be any room to fit any more food down for a while, so it would keep me on the straight and narrow! I also like that sort of meal for psychological reasons - one mouthful of what I really like - e.g. the belly pork, followed by a few mouthfuls of the veg is a great way of getting things I'm less keen on into my body. Especially if the broccoli was done in the same pan as the belly pork, so is coated in a bit of tasty fat.

I'd say that way of eating easily falls under the 'LCHF' badge as used by many people on this forum, because myself and many others it seems don't necessarily make a conscious effort to log the weight of fat we eat and keep it at a high level - we just keep carbs fairly low, and ensure we are getting 'plenty' of fat and protein. I'd call it 'LCMF' and it works for me because I have a lot of body fat to burn.

 

[briped]

As your English is brilliant you might want to take a look at some UK webistes for nutrition info
The one I go to most is this - the avocado is just an example but fairly easy to read.
https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-1-perfectly-ripe-large-avocado/070278-35580-35581

My point about salt was you may not be having enough of it. When we change from processed foods to fresh home cooked produce unless we add some we may get deficient.. also as you flush out water (well hopefully you will) your salt levels may drop... I'm not sure of the exact science but I think this may cause water retention issues.. just a thought.

If you feel like it maybe sign up to www.ketogenicforums.com where they are huge amount of people and threads on just about everything that people have found problematic when doing keto. There is a huge amount of experience there as well as well over 50 threads on water retention...

Thanks for the links which will be book marked for later perusal, but not much later. That ketogenic forum sounds very interesting indeed!

 

[AdamJames]

I'm thinking very much along the same lines as you! I will give this low carb diet a good while, perhaps a month from now, and see what happens while keeping a close eye on weight as well as BG. If it does turn out that my body is constructed in a very alternative way from those of the rest of the members of this forum, I will go back to stuffing myself with low carb veggies and lean meat, but oh how fed up I got with all those veggies Also I've become aware that I should expect weight loss to be slower at 57 years than it was at 44, much to my chagrin.

One thing I don't get is, and I'm quoting you here "I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg ...", how can a big pile of even low carb veggies be less than 20g of carbs? Either we don't agree on what a "big pile" is, or I'm seriously terrible at calculating them. The latter could well be the case.

About the fluid retention, I did consult my GP about it at least 10 years ago. As expected she prescribed some diuretic tablets, but I can't remember if this was before or after I was diagnosed. My kidneys are fine, but I'd rather not risk their health, and anyway, I know that suddenly someone will 'pull the plug', and most of it will be gone again. I also know my heart is fine, because a couple of years ago it was thoroughly examined because I'd had lung embolisms. No damage.

I realised after putting the broccoli and spinach on the plate that it was actually lunch time, and the broccoli's best before date was yesterday, plus I actually had some belly pork in the fridge - haven't bought that for a long time! So I went ahead and made exactly the sort of meal I was describing:



I fried the belly pork in a pan with a lid, and put the broccoli in with it, so it's sort of steamed and sort of fried. I added 12g of pointed sweet peppers and 5g of English mustard. The spinach and peppers were raw.

I worked out the 'numbers', everything rounded up to nearest whole number:

Calories: 556
Carbs: 14g
Fat: 36g
Protein: 43g
Fibre: 9g

I also worked out the cost roughly, it's about £1.50, which probably doesn't mean much if you're in a different part of the world (I'm in the UK), but I'd say it's pretty affordable for a big plate of wholesome, simple food (apart from the English mustard!).

So far, at one hour after eating it, my blood sugar appears to be flat-lining. It's gone up by 0.1mmol/l. Doesn't say much considering the inaccuracy of my meter. I'll take another reading at 2 hours, and since it's a special occasion (I haven't worked out the numbers for a meal / performed a postprandial measurement for a long time) I might go on to 3 hours, especially since I expect my digestive system is working hard to unlock the carbs and may suddenly have a breakthrough!

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks for the links which will be book marked for later perusal, but not much later. That ketogenic forum sounds very interesting indeed!

My other "home" apart from here...

 

[AdamJames]

One thing I don't get is, and I'm quoting you here "I can have say 20g carbs in a meal, but so long as those carbs were from a big pile of lowish carb veg ...", how can a big pile of even low carb veggies be less than 20g of carbs? Either we don't agree on what a "big pile" is, or I'm seriously terrible at calculating them. The latter could well be the case.

My last update on this: I've taken 1, 2 and 3 hr blood glucose measurements after eating that meal with the big pile of veg. The changes from starting point were:

1 hour: +0.1 mmol/l
2 hour: -0.8 mmol/l
3 hour: -1.1 mmol/l

So basically I've flat-lined, and even come down a bit. I started high this morning anyway, so would have likely come down at this rate had I not eaten anything, but roughly speaking I think it's fair to sum things up as "A big meal with 14g carbs from veg didn't do much to my blood sugars". My carb tolerance is very poor at the moment by the way - I'm certain if I'd had 14g of carbs from a slice of bread and sat still for 3 hours, the results would be very different.

I think it depends on the veg and the meal as a whole, and most importantly, the person eating it. It's definitely something to explore if you ever give up on the very strict low carbs. It may not wreak havoc with your current excellent blood sugar numbers.

 

[briped]

Also it has been shown that certain drugs like statins increase your risk of diabetes and weight gain as published in the Lancet magazine.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/he...ugar-and-raise-diabetes-risk-study-finds.html

Thanks for the link, so it increases my risk of weight gain? Thanks so much, docs. I was against starting on the statins, but they assured me that if I didn't it'd be certain death within approx. 5 minutes. I'll certainly read that article, and try to remember the contents for my next consultation - if I can because of the memory impairing metformin I'm also popping, or was it the Jardiance ...?

 

[bulkbiker]

if I can because of the memory impairing metformin

That's another statin side effect too...

 

[briped]

That's another statin side effect too...

There you go ... I actually replied to Beefeter's comment twice!!

 

[briped]

That 5 oz steak (125g) is a starter sized one for me. I would have 8 or 10 oz.
Likewise, the 5 mushrooms and 1/3 courgette wouldn't fill me up.

After a meal like that my body would be asking for more food within a couple of hours.

Well, you know I'm a diabetic, lazy, fat, overeating slob, or so I've been led to think for many years. Anyway, 125g was ok, and I'd managed to make it resemble and taste a bit like a leather sole. Maybe it was just as well that there was only one for each of us, but I'm glad that our steak knives are good. No, 125g. was ok, but before LCHF I'd have had way more veggies to go with that, as well as a good helping of potatoes, rice or whatever. I didn't feel hungry after the meal, but I didn't feel full either, and that's how it should be, isn't it? Yes, I did feel hungry after a couple of hours, but as long as I'm not tempted to dive for the biscuit drawer, if I had one, that's ok.

You may be smaller, lighter (likely) and less active than I (unlikely), but I would suggest that you eat more.

If I were a horse I'd be a shire horse, but without the hairy legs

I don't like using calorie calculations as a weight loss tool, because I find calories are pretty useless for my body and my weight loss. However, if you calculate the number of calories you have eaten in a day, it is often very useful to indicate whether you are switching on your body's 'starvation mode'. This is a mistake I have made repeatedly over the years, to the point that I now deliberately aim for over 2,000 calories a day (made up almost entirely of fat and protein). I know from bitter experience that if my calories drop below around 1,500 a day then my body stubbornly, rapidly and wilfully downgrades its metabolic rate and halts all weight loss.

That's my experience too. Starving is not the way to go. Back in '83 was working as an auxiliary nurse. Nurses walk about 9 miles a day, I was told, and like many soldiers I got a socalled stress fracture in one of my feet. I walked on it for 3 weeks before seeing a GP in Sheffield. He sent me for an x-ray, and I left on crutches with a cast. When the cast came of the same thing happened, and I went back to the GP. This time he told me it was because I was too plump, and handed me a prescription for amphetamines! Well, I started taking them and went down to 700 cals per day for a short'ish while. That didn't help me at all.
So sorry for my tardy reply, but I do get a little lost as to whom I've replied. Blame it on my memory impairing drugs