Going It Alone

[lindisfel]

Just name your clinical trials showing keto is safe for patients with primary aldosteronism. Keto is a low k diet and it needs to be supplemented.
No doctors are going to recommend keto for the diabetic population of the UK, it would be unbalanced when low carb GOOD fats is perfectly adequate.
A black and white monochromatic belief system is evident amongst LCHF, it's heresy to question the favourite gurus.
That I see as hallmarks of a cult.

They are human and all science is provisional and is subject to change with advancing knowledge.

a cult mentality is blindly following someone or something with little or no evidence.

i do not see that here on this thread, I see people asking your for your evidence, with the backdrop of their evidence that they have listed.

 

[Guzzler]

Just name your clinical trials showing keto is safe for patients with primary aldosteronism. Keto is a low k diet and it needs to be supplemented.
No doctors are going to recommend keto for the diabetic population of the UK, it would be unbalanced when low carb GOOD fats is perfectly adequate.
A black and white monochromatic belief system is evident amongst LCHF, it's heresy to question the favourite gurus.
That I see as hallmarks of a cult.

They are human and all science is provisional and is subject to change with advancing knowledge.

'Science advances one funeral at a time' Max Planck (or words to that effect).

 

[JohnEGreen]

My eldest is a GP she is allocated 10mins to each patient.

I have an appointment at my doctors surgery on Friday the doctor who I have never seen before is allocated 10 minutes for my appointment as I said doctors do not always have the time to fully explore options and multipliable co morbidities 10 minutes is no where near time enough to even read a patient's notes and snap judgments are often made based on erroneous assumptions in these circumstances and that is to no ones benefit.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Keto is a low k diet and it needs to be supplemented.

Please can you, or someone else, explain why this is so?

Potassium is found in a wide variety of foods. No need to eat bananas - there is more potassium in wild salmon than bananas.
Broccoli, sprouts, seeds, nuts, fish, shellfish, beef, chicken, and turkey are all good sources of potassium. I don't see much there that can't be eaten on a keto diet.

 

[zand]

I have an appointment at my doctors surgery on Friday the doctor who I have never seen before is allocated 10 minutes for my appointment as I said doctors do not always have the time to fully explore options and multipliable co morbidities 10 minutes is no where near time enough to even read a patient's notes and snap judgments are often made based on erroneous assumptions in these circumstances and that is to no ones benefit.

I agree. I tend to have to say the same basic things at every appointment anyway. My naturopath who has only met me 3 times knows a lot more about me than my GP

 

[zand]

I think @lindisfel is just trying to warn others of problems that they may not know about. I do the same re artificial sweeteners and drinking enough water. That's all any of us can do; talk about the problems we have seen or have had. I had never heard of primary aldosteronism before he mentioned it on another thread. I do agree with him that health matters are not usually black and white issues.

 

[JMK1954]

Sorry, zand. Intended to mark 'Agree'. Android update is causing me a load of bother.

Deleted the rating.
Urb' - you can delete this yourself if you no longer need it.

 

[zand]

Sorry, zand. Intended to mark 'Agree'. Android update is causing me a load of bother.

Oh right, thanks for explaining....

 

[Guzzler]

Sorry, zand. Intended to mark 'Agree'. Android update is causing me a load of bother.

There is a small 'Undo rating' tab to the right of the ratings area.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Blue tit,
I know you are ok on your diet you have your U&E's checked.
I have to have mine done every month and I find it hard to get the 4.7grams of k needed per day.
Added to that I take two different drugs to stop me peeing out potassium because I retain sodium.

Sodium goes into tissue and k comes out, it is part of the process. This why I get amused when people take k and sodium supplements. It's like putting your foot on the brake and accelerator at the same time. It's to be hoped an healthy person pees out the sodium and keeps enough k!
With a low carb diet it cuts the amount of potassium I take in, it is a deficiency in the diet if ones body wastes potassium.
It is not generally known that a high percentage of resistant hypertensives, although a minority, have issues with their adrenal glands and produce too much aldosterone, low carb could be problematical for them in taking in more sodium in on a low k diet. Particularly if it is undiagnosed.
It drives their k down and they could at least become very poorly. The sodium pushed into the heart tissue causes left ventricular enlargement and heart failure. I have that and a pacemaker as a result.
But they told me I had essential hypertension for nearly thirty years.
regards
Derek







QUOTE="Bluetit1802, post: 1826975, member: 94045"]Please can you, or someone else, explain why this is so?

Potassium is found in a wide variety of foods. No need to eat bananas - there is more potassium in wild salmon than bananas.
Broccoli, sprouts, seeds, nuts, fish, shellfish, beef, chicken, and turkey are all good sources of potassium. I don't see much there that can't be eaten on a keto diet.[/QUOTE]

 

[lindisfel]

Hi John,
They have to read and update your notes in the same time slot!
No private GP has these time constraints.
D.

I have an appointment at my doctors surgery on Friday the doctor who I have never seen before is allocated 10 minutes for my appointment as I said doctors do not always have the time to fully explore options and multipliable co morbidities 10 minutes is no where near time enough to even read a patient's notes and snap judgments are often made based on erroneous assumptions in these circumstances and that is to no ones benefit.

 

[JohnEGreen]

It is not generally known that a high percentage of resistant hypertensives, although a minority, have issues with their adrenal glands and produce too much aldosterone, low carb could be problematical for them in taking in more sodium in on a low k diet. Particularly if it is undiagnosed.

Not trying to be awkward but if it's undiagnosed and you ask your GP if a keto diet is OK for you he or she would have no particular reason to say no as he/she would be as ignorant of your condition as any other person.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi John,
I was not undiagnosed after I was diagnosed at Newcastle four years ago. I am under the Newcastle endocrinologist.
I had high BP and was treated with the wrong medication for approaching 30 years.

My present GP is against LCHF....the fats part anyway.

I am concerned for those who are undiagnosed, it has potential adverse effects if adrenal disease is present.

This does not seem to be catered for with the information on the keto sites.
regards
D.

Not trying to be awkward but if it's undiagnosed and you ask your GP if a keto diet is OK for you he or she would have no particular reason to say no as he/she would be as ignorant of your condition as any other person.

 

[JohnEGreen]

@lindisfel I am not disagreeing with you I think people should be aware but in fact you highlight my point by your posting you have made people aware of one potential danger of keto diets but you have done it on a public forum and given information that would not necessarily be available from a health care provider and I find that laudable and you are correct not many keto sites would give this info either as they also may be unaware of the points you have brought up.

edit to add I am unsure as to whether I am making any kind of sense tonight as in the space of an hour I have had BG in the nines and then the fours and am feeling foggy.

 

[lindisfel]

I think there is a work round John but that is in the remit of an endocrinologist who practices keto for health or metabolic disease.
I have not met one or heard of one in the UK.
It needs frequent blood tests to start with.

One looks forward to the day the NHS has LCgood F practitioners. Probably a vain hope!
D.

 

[Sani Thomas]

a cult mentality is blindly following someone or something with little or no evidence.

i do not see that here on this thread, I see people asking your for your evidence, with the backdrop of their evidence that they have listed.

Hi, many people are blindly following a cult even when reading and researching. How? They filter the information accepting only what supports their belief.
So far in my diabetic experience, I'm T2 on insulin, all HCP have been really good and while I self manage my insulin, I keep in touch with them and seek advice from them. What I personally like is that they are supporting me in choosing a reasonable rational attitude to both my condition and treatment.
Keto diet to me (I'm a nurse) sounds on the one hand dangerous and on the other unpleasant. None of you guys mentions quality of life.
Potassium and sodium both are necessary for the functioning of the body. They are part of the electrolyte balance of the body and getting them out of walk is very dangerous indeed. I witnessed once a convulsion caused by low potassium. Not a nice think, I assure you.
So, I'm all for keeping in touch with our medical professionals and not disregarding what they say.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

 

[bulkbiker]

Keto diet to me (I'm a nurse) sounds on the one hand dangerous and on the other unpleasant. None of you guys mentions quality of life.

I tend not to find butter, bacon, eggs and steak unpleasant. Maybe that's just me.
I have a great quality of life because I no longer carry around an extra 8 stone or apparently have Type 2 diabetes.

 

[Sani Thomas]

I tend not to find butter, bacon, eggs and steak unpleasant. Maybe that's just me.
I have a great quality of life because I no longer carry around an extra 8 stone or apparently have Type 2 diabetes.

That's one thing I did not consider as I'm within healthy weight range.
I eat meat, but living only on meat and fat does not coincide with my idea of enjoying life.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Bulkbiker,
You must realise that for some, and ones on this forum, the model of insulin/low carb and obesity reduction does not work too well,
metabolism is a complex business and we should not go into it without looking at the whole range of evidence or consulting HCPs.

It may sort out my weight and yours but it ain't sorted my BP and the other metabolic issues.
D.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi Bulkbiker,
You must realise that for some, and ones on this forum, the model of insulin/low carb and obesity reduction does not work too well,
metabolism is a complex business and we should not go into it without looking at the whole range of evidence or consulting HCPs.

It may sort out my weight and yours but it ain't sorted my BP and the other metabolic issues.
D.

Are you saying (I'm guessing not) that obesity reduction is per se not a good thing?
Reducing insulin responses and cutting carbs doesn't do any harm either.
So I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.
Does it cure all ills... I'm not sure.. but from my position (which is after all the only one I have) it has controlled/reversed/ put into remission all of mine so far.