Type 2 The First Day After Exercise.

[briped]

Before the week-end I had to cut back a bit on my meds for financial reasons. I cut my Victoza by 1/3, and my Jardiance from 20mg/day to 10mg. They're both hugely expensive. I still take 2 x 500mg of metformin/day. I kept a close eye on my BG meter, of course, and not surprisingly my BG went up. Last remedie - exercise. Yes, the dreaded exercise. I hate just 'going for a walk', I need a purpose, so I walked to a shopping mall about ½ an hour from my home, did some shopping and hauled the heavy rucksack home.
Checked my BG a couple of hours after coming home and yayyy!! It was 5.1.
This morning my FBG was a not so yayyy 6.8 and I'd gained 1.1 kg overnight, but my leg muscles do feel somewhat used and could well be retaining water. I'm not worried, but I am curious. Something @ickihun wrote made me wonder ... "Any exercise as long as not stressing you into liver dumping or muscle dumping. Once dumping occurs it has defeated the object. To reduce bgs.". Can anyone elaborate on this? I didn't want to hijack that thread, so decided to post it as a new question.
So my question is: Might the exercise have a temporary negative influence on my BG?
I should add that I'm on penicillin, and have been for some days, but this doesn't seem to have affected my BG readings, though the infection might have a bit.

 

[zand]

Yes exercise, even slowish walking puts my BGs up temporarily.

Exercise is still very beneficial though and longer term helps to reduce insulin resistance and therefore also to lower BGs.

You may well be retaining water. Maybe you got dehydrated and your body decided to save water?

I think you are right that the infection has probably put your BGs up a bit.

 

[Guzzler]

Good morning, Briped. I honestly think that you cannot draw any conclusions after one day plus the infection and treatment you are taking. Many people walk to aid bg levels and to aid IR, excetcise does help however, some people find that too much excercise can raise bg. You have to find a level that suits you but as with any changes we make we need to give it time to recognise any possible benefits or downsides and take into account the confounders such as infection, heat, stress etc.
Your rise this morning could possibly be down to the simple fact that your body isn't used to you walking quite as far but equally it could be something else. Well done, be assured that you are not doing anything that may cause you harm. Perhaps delay the plans for the next London Marathon until next year

 

[briped]

Yes exercise, even slowish walking puts my BGs up temporarily.

Exercise is still very beneficial though and longer term helps to reduce insulin resistance and therefore also to lower BGs.

You may well be retaining water. Maybe you got dehydrated and your body decided to save water?

I think you are right that the infection has probably put your BGs up a bit.

I'm a firm believer in exercise, just not for my body Just joking. I know I should be doing it every day, but you don't think that exercising/walking to a point where I can certainly feel it in my legs the next day might cause some of my large muscle groups (yes, I too have them) to retain water? There's absolutely nothing to see on feet and lower legs, though. I just felt there could be a connection between that and my "weight gain".
I'm not being anxious or discouraged or anything. I'm just curious on a 'how bodies work for dummies' level

 

[briped]

Your rise this morning could possibly be down to the simple fact that your body isn't used to you walking quite as far but equally it could be something else. Well done, be assured that you are not doing anything that may cause you harm. Perhaps delay the plans for the next London Marathon until next year

Thanks Guzzler. I know that patience thing isn't really my strongest side I'm sure that walking can't do me any harm, so I'm not worried at all, 'curious' is a better word to describe this, so not to worry, I'm not looking for an excuse to stay put. I am looking for other purposes for my walks than shopping, though, because it'll get expensive in the long run/walk
London Marathin - typo, but decided not to correct it. I heard of this old Indian guy who ran his first marathon at 81. There's hope for me yet

 

[Deleted Account]

There are two things that happen when you exercise:
- your body becomes more efficient at using insulin
- your liver/muscles release glucose to give you the energy for the exercise.

The latter is what may cause your BG to rise.
However, as a result of this, you have less glucose in your liver to dump over the next 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, as a result, exercise will reduce your BG throughout the next day or so.

As others have said, a sample of one with other factors such as infection, is not enough to draw any conclusions as to the effectiveness of exercise for you.

 

[briped]

There are two things that happen when you exercise:
- your body becomes more efficient at using insulin
- your liver/muscles release glucose to give you the energy for the exercise.

The latter is what may cause your BG to rise.

But right after the exercise it had fallen significantly, from 6.8 to 5.1.

However, as a result of this, you have less glucose in your liver to dump over the next 24 to 48 hours. Therefore, as a result, exercise will reduce your BG throughout the next day or so.

And the exact opposite happened, although this could be for other reasons, as you and others pointed out.

As others have said, a sample of one with other factors such as infection, is not enough to draw any conclusions as to the effectiveness of exercise for you.

Point taken, and thanks Helen. Will see how it looks in a week or two I do know that usually it's very effective for me, and I have no reason to think that it's changed.

 

[Deleted Account]

But right after the exercise it had fallen significantly, from 6.8 to 5.1.

That is not unusual - it is a balance of which happens most/first: the insulin efficiency or the liver dump.
For me, this varies depending upon the exercise but generally continuous cardio (e.g. running or walking) reduces BG and resistance (e.g. climbing) and/or intermittent cardio (e.g. tennis) and/or stress (e.g. cycling up a steep hill against a strong wind on a very hot day) will raise BG in the short term. But, typically, all reduce BG if there are no additional factors (e.g. infection) over the next 24 to 48 hours.
Good luck with your next week or two of walking ... I hope you start to see some improvements.

 

[Guzzler]

Thanks Guzzler. I know that patience thing isn't really my strongest side I'm sure that walking can't do me any harm, so I'm not worried at all, 'curious' is a better word to describe this, so not to worry, I'm not looking for an excuse to stay put. I am looking for other purposes for my walks than shopping, though, because it'll get expensive in the long run/walk
London Marathin - typo, but decided not to correct it. I heard of this old Indian guy who ran his first marathon at 81. There's hope for me yet

I hear you about the going out with a purpose thing. Try looking at Better BG management as your purpose. When you think about it what you did yesterday was a fair old trek. Half an hour there then traipsing around the mall and then carrying goodies all the way home. Perhaps set your watch for twenty minutes, when you reach ten minutes head back home. As you know, I can't do this but I 'excercise' by doing 'seated' gardening. This involves bending, stretching and a little lifting. Housework is excercise, too. If you like housework your house will be like a show home! Good luck.

 

[briped]

That is not unusual - it is a balance of which happens most/first: the insulin efficiency or the liver dump.
For me, this varies depending upon the exercise but generally continuous cardio (e.g. running or walking) reduces BG and resistance (e.g. climbing) and/or intermittent cardio (e.g. tennis) and/or stress (e.g. cycling up a steep hill against a strong wind on a very hot day) will raise BG in the short term. But, typically, all reduce BG if there are no additional factors (e.g. infection) over the next 24 to 48 hours.
Good luck with your next week or two of walking ... I hope you start to see some improvements.

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation I hope so too, and it better happen before I run out of the two expensive types of meds!

 

[briped]

I hear you about the going out with a purpose thing. Try looking at Better BG management as your purpose. When you think about it what you did yesterday was a fair old trek. Half an hour there then traipsing around the mall and then carrying goodies all the way home. Perhaps set your watch for twenty minutes, when you reach ten minutes head back home. As you know, I can't do this but I 'excercise' by doing 'seated' gardening. This involves bending, stretching and a little lifting. Housework is excercise, too. If you like housework your house will be like a show home! Good luck.

It would be good for me to have a dog to take for daily walks. I love animals, but I live in a flat on the 4th, 5th and 6th floor, and that's not suitable for cats, dogs and larger, in my opinion. Would love to have a baby elephant, though Besides I suppose they're not cheap what with insurance, vets' bills and of course food. That goes for dogs as well as baby elephants. I really and truly hate housework.
I better just stop being such a spoiled brat and go for walks while I still can, purpose or not. Listen to music while doing so. Eminem does tend to speed me up Get into better shape to a point where I feel that 2 x 25 min. is just not enough anymore.
I'd love to have a small garden, but my balcony will have to suffice. Fiddling around with chili, tomato and pepper plants can be quite therapeutic, don't you think? One memorable moment was watching a bumble bee take off from my anisisop mint, its hind legs heavy with goodness for its colleagues.

 

[Brunneria]

re the weight gain, it may be fluid retention in the muscles.
Unaccustomed exercise, especially if more intensive than usual, can cause the muscles to swell a bit due to damage repair. It certainly doesn't have to be all that stenuous, if normal life is sedentary.

re the blood glucose rises that @ickihun mentioned, the whole thing is rather complex. Our bodies store glucose in the form of glycogen in both the liver and the big muscles, ready for when it is needed. This may be exercise, or it may be a hypo, or it may be when bg dips a bit from skipping a meal. Whatever the cause, these glycogen releases are often called 'liver dumps'.

Some people take this as a sign that they shouldn't exercise hard enough to raise blood glucose, but even if they do, it is just temporary, and (certainly in my case), once the blood glucose subsides after the initial exercise peak, then it drops lower than usual and stays lower for several hours (because exercise lowers insulin resistance). This seems like an overall win to me, so I have no problem at all with a temporary peak. But for more moderate exercise (like your walk yesterday) you may not see a peak at all, and may skip straight to the lowering phase.

Re your higher than usual morning reading... it may have been your body waking up stressed and horrified at the prospect of another long walk!

Seriously though, i would give your body a bit of recovery time after yesterday's walk - since it was unaccustomed. Skip a day and go out tomorrow. The reason I suggest this is that my body gets fitter much quicker with moderate increases in activity, rather than flogging myself too hard in a session. Besides, that puts me right off!

Do you know anyone with a dog you could borrow?
My father happily borrows a friend's dog 3 times a week, since she is virtually housebound nowadays, and the dog loves her walks. So does my dad - especially the bit where he hands her back at the end of the walk. Haha!

 

[dawnmc]

It would be good for me to have a dog to take for daily walks. I love animals, but I live in a flat on the 4th, 5th and 6th floor, and that's not suitable for cats, dogs and larger, in my opinion. Would love to have a baby elephant, though Besides I suppose they're not cheap what with insurance, vets' bills and of course food. That goes for dogs as well as baby elephants. I really and truly hate housework.
I better just stop being such a spoiled brat and go for walks while I still can, purpose or not. Listen to music while doing so. Eminem does tend to speed me up Get into better shape to a point where I feel that 2 x 25 min. is just not enough anymore.
I'd love to have a small garden, but my balcony will have to suffice. Fiddling around with chili, tomato and pepper plants can be quite therapeutic, don't you think? One memorable moment was watching a bumble bee take off from my anisisop mint, its hind legs heavy with goodness for its colleagues.

try walk at home with Leslie sansome, loads on you tube, or for more movement Jessica smith.

 

[DJC3]

Hi @briped walking is obviously great exercise, but as you said it can be hard to motivate yourself to go out ‘just’ to walk. I know I’ve found this since our little dog died. I do try to make myself go though and find joy in meeting and watching other dogs and their owners - doggy people are generally very friendly. Is there a park somewhere you could go and do similar?
Also I’m tagging @johnpol who posted a set of general core exercises on the Regular Moderate Exercise thread. No fancy equipment needed, just a floor. I find if I do these before bed every night my fbg is generally better than when I don’t do them. I’m gradually building up the number of times I can do each exercise.

 

[Resurgam]

I have a trampoline - I have been meaning to get one of the smaller ones for use inside, for cold wet days.
The one in the garden means that I can use it easily and if I want to stop I can have a sit down and restart, or give up on it entirely for the moment and be back inside in half a minute. It is very low impact, makes a great surface for stretching or yoga and I think that my joints have actually improved since I have had it.
The small ones - 'trampettes' I have heard them called, are easy to move around and store out of the way so perhaps consider one of those if a more convenient and less avoidable type of exercise is required.

 

[briped]

re the weight gain, it may be fluid retention in the muscles.
Unaccustomed exercise, especially if more intensive than usual, can cause the muscles to swell a bit due to damage repair. It certainly doesn't have to be all that stenuous, if normal life is sedentary.

Hello Brunneria I suspected something like that could be the case, but wasn't sure.

re the blood glucose rises that @ickihun mentioned, the whole thing is rather complex. Our bodies store glucose in the form of glycogen in both the liver and the big muscles, ready for when it is needed. This may be exercise, or it may be a hypo, or it may be when bg dips a bit from skipping a meal. Whatever the cause, these glycogen releases are often called 'liver dumps'.

Some people take this as a sign that they shouldn't exercise hard enough to raise blood glucose, but even if they do, it is just temporary, and (certainly in my case), once the blood glucose subsides after the initial exercise peak, then it drops lower than usual and stays lower for several hours (because exercise lowers insulin resistance). This seems like an overall win to me, so I have no problem at all with a temporary peak. But for more moderate exercise (like your walk yesterday) you may not see a peak at all, and may skip straight to the lowering phase.

Interesting stuff, thank you. Yes, I probably skipped directly to the lowering phase early last night, but my low'ish number yesterday didn't come as a big surprise to me as I'd noticed that sort of a pattern after ½ an hours brisk walk last time I felt I was somewhat in control of my T2. That was way before I had all you genious people in here to consult, however.

Re your higher than usual morning reading... it may have been your body waking up stressed and horrified at the prospect of another long walk!

Ha ha, yes, something like that. I woke up at 6am, instantly wide awake. No snoring husbands or screaming gulls, just silence and bright daylight. I'd had a very decent LCHF meal the night before. More 'decent' than I'm used to, which might also explain why my liver decided to 'take a dump' ...?

Seriously though, i would give your body a bit of recovery time after yesterday's walk - since it was unaccustomed. Skip a day and go out tomorrow. The reason I suggest this is that my body gets fitter much quicker with moderate increases in activity, rather than flogging myself too hard in a session. Besides, that puts me right off!

And that's exactly what I did, but going out again tomorrow.

Do you know anyone with a dog you could borrow?
My father happily borrows a friend's dog 3 times a week, since she is virtually housebound nowadays, and the dog loves her walks. So does my dad - especially the bit where he hands her back at the end of the walk. Haha!

I've been thinking along the same lines. I don't know anybody, but we have a wonderful local Facebook community, and maybe somebody is looking for somebody like me I could start with a Chihuahua and work my way up to Rhodesian Ridgeback

 

[briped]

try walk at home with Leslie sansome, loads on you tube, or for more movement Jessica smith.

Thanks dawnmc. I'll look them up

 

[zand]

I'm a firm believer in exercise, just not for my body Just joking. I know I should be doing it every day, but you don't think that exercising/walking to a point where I can certainly feel it in my legs the next day might cause some of my large muscle groups (yes, I too have them) to retain water? There's absolutely nothing to see on feet and lower legs, though. I just felt there could be a connection between that and my "weight gain".
I'm not being anxious or discouraged or anything. I'm just curious on a 'how bodies work for dummies' level

Yes I do feel you may be retaining water...

 

[briped]

Hi @briped walking is obviously great exercise, but as you said it can be hard to motivate yourself to go out ‘just’ to walk. I know I’ve found this since our little dog died.

It can, can't it? On one hand I prefer to walk alone. I can set my own pace, and don't have to be sociable if I don't feel like it, but on the other hand it's nice to have companionship, so a dog would be the perfect 'Kraka solution' from Nordic mythology. Is that your dog in your avatar pic?

I do try to make myself go though and find joy in meeting and watching other dogs and their owners - doggy people are generally very friendly. Is there a park somewhere you could go and do similar?
Also I’m tagging @johnpol who posted a set of general core exercises on the Regular Moderate Exercise thread. No fancy equipment needed, just a floor. I find if I do these before bed every night my fbg is generally better than when I don’t do them. I’m gradually building up the number of times I can do each exercise.

Thanks for tagging him, but maybe I should just drag my bone idle body over to that sub forum I haven't been lurking there yet because I rarely or never see posts from there under 'recent posts' - or maybe I've been ignoring them? "Nothing to see here, move on"

 

[zand]

I tend to do what someone else suggested....set my watch for 10 mins, walk and then turn round after the 10 mins. I find that the walk home is so much more enjoyable than the walk out because I am going home for a purpose - to get on with my day. It means that at least half of the walk isn't a waste of time in my mind.