Type 2 Shock At New Hba1c Level

[Nicel]

Thanks everyone for all your responses. I accepted I need drastic change in my diet and I am now considering doing the Newcastle diet. I am going to take the next few days to research this. I feel if I’m doing drastic I’d rather do that. Then I’ll look at how I continue after. This is a lovely forum and I’ll be staying active on here now and speaking to like minded people

 

[Pipp]

Thanks everyone for all your responses. I accepted I need drastic change in my diet and I am now considering doing the Newcastle diet. I am going to take the next few days to research this. I feel if I’m doing drastic I’d rather do that. Then I’ll look at how I continue after. This is a lovely forum and I’ll be staying active on here now and speaking to like minded people

If you do choose to do Newcastle diet, @Nicel, make sure you do your homework first. Read up the information provided by the academic team:
https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

Get support from nearest and dearest, so that they understand what you are doing and why. Ideally get your GP on board too, because you will need to consider your medications could need to be reduced. Choose a time when you will not be having important social events to attend, as these always seem to have feasting that will tempt you. Beware the 'friends' who try to sabbotage your efforts with the 'surely won't hurt to cheat now and then' comments.
Most important.... Don't think the ND will be a short peroid of calorie deficit that will cure you for good. You will need to have a follow on way of eating that will prevent you from returning to your previous way of eating, which would only return you to higher blood glucose levels.
Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Hi @Nicel It is possible to follow low carb veggie plan (even easier when eating out if you do eat a bit of meat). Some of the forum members avoid all carb food (pasta, bread etc) and anything that resembles it, others like me, find replacements
there are lots of lower carb options for traditional high carb foods, I have put few ideas below. Don't be afraid of fat, it did take me a long time to get over my years (and years!) of low fat diet brainwashing, but it does help in keeping energy levels up and it doesn't slow/stop weight loss (yes really - I ate a full tub of clotted cream, massive chunks of cheese and a bag of nuts every day on a recent holiday and still lost weight). Agree with previous posters - eat to your meter (test to see what foods affect you).

• mashed potatoes: mashed cauliflower or mashed celeriac work very well, add butter or splash of cream if doing LCHF. I like to add garlic and herbs.

• Chips(UK) Fries (US): celeriac works well instead of oven chips, or cut courgette into a fat chip shape and coat in egg and almond flour ‘batter’ and bake into a courgette fritter/chip
• Dauphinoise potatoes: Celeriac works really well in place of potatoes, add plenty of cream, butter and garlic for a LCHF version.
• Pasta: "pasta" quills - use courgettes slices into sort of chunks instead, steam or cook briefly in boiling water – don’t overcook or like pasta it will go mushy, serve with low carb sauce.
• Small patty pan squash cut into quarters also work well, cook until just tender.
• for fettuccini or tagliatelle – can use courgettes cut into thicker strips
• for spaghetti - spaghetti squash is great when I can find it or can use courgette ( I use a julienne peeler much cheaper than a spiraliser ) but needs to be cooked gently or it will fall apart, I normally add to sauce to be warmed up
• for cannelloni pasta tubes - I use aubergine slices rolled around the filling or leeks carefully sliced to open them into a sheet and then rolled around the filling .
• for lasagne sheets - aubergine or courgette sliced lengthways or leeks folded all work well, don’t need precooking.
• Bread - use nut flours instead of wheat flour, lots of recipes on forums such as oopsie bread or almond flour breads, I add a spoonful of ground flaxseeds to add fibre to the ‘bread’
• Wraps – large lettuce leaves make great sandwich filling or burger holders
• Crisps - melted cheese blobs is yummy
• Nachos – use thick strips of raw pepper to serve guacamole ok not exactly the same but good altrnative
• Gratin/breadcrumb topping - Almond or coconut flour instead of bread works great, add savoury seasoning such as herbs or garlic for gratin toppings etc as the nut flours can be a little sweet.
• Crumble topping(UK)/ Cobbler(US) – use ground almonds instead of wheat flour for sweet crumble topping, fruits don’t need any extra sweeteners or sugar, add cinnamon and mixed spice for added sweet taste without needing sugar, serve with double cream for extra sweet taste.

Keep coming back to the forum, you will find support here

What a fantastically helpful post!

 

[Nicel]

Thats an amazing post thanks x

 

[Sani Thomas]

Thanks everyone, I have just had a really good cry, and now I am going to start a low carb diet, its going to be difficult as I don't really eat a lot of meat as I don't like meat and I am a choc & cake - a - holic, I also don't drink alcohol and I quit smoking 4 weeks ago. I just feel so depressed at the thought of giving up the foods that I love but I have to do something and it starts from now. Now I just need to decipher the low carb diets and decide how to go about that

Nicel,
This is my personal opinion, but you might check with your diabetic team.
T2 is progressive condition. Although with strict diet and exercise you can achieve some reversal, to keep it there means dieting for life. Still according to literature, most T2 develop and end up on insulin.

For a number of years I stuck to the traditional treatment. Then my BS started rising. I was taking 4 x 500 g Metformin (max. dose), Saxaglipine at max., and Glipizide at max. No effect whatsoever. My HbA1c was 75 and above. So, I ended up on insulin.

Initially I was in shock. I was frightened. I did not want to be on insulin. Now? I wish I had gone on it earlier. After the initial shock I settled, started feeling comfortable and started eating normally. I went to a course about counting carbohydrates and learning how to calculate the insulin I need accordingly. I still watch the food and its content, but I'm not stuck on a diet craving for things I'm forbidden.
Yes, it takes time. Yes, there is a potential for hypos. Yes, you need to learn. But it is worth it. I now control the diabetes and not vice versa.

Just a point of interest. Recently I read an article (unfortunately I can't remember who shared it, as it was in the forum) wher the author said that trying to keep away from insulin is pointless as most of us would still come to it. Also, they thought that it was better to start with it from the beginning. People are afraid of insulin for the wrong reasons and fail to see the benefit over traditional treatment. Through my personal experience, I concur.
Best of luck and don't beat yourself about the diet and the tablets. It happens to us all.

 

[Nicel]

Nicel,
This is my personal opinion, but you might check with your diabetic team.
T2 is progressive condition. Although with strict diet and exercise you can achieve some reversal, to keep it there means dieting for life. Still according to literature, most T2 develop and end up on insulin.

For a number of years I stuck to the traditional treatment. Then my BS started rising. I was taking 4 x 500 g Metformin (max. dose), Saxaglipine at max., and Glipizide at max. No effect whatsoever. My HbA1c was 75 and above. So, I ended up on insulin.

Initially I was in shock. I was frightened. I did not want to be on insulin. Now? I wish I had gone on it earlier. After the initial shock I settled, started feeling comfortable and started eating normally. I went to a course about counting carbohydrates and learning how to calculate the insulin I need accordingly. I still watch the food and its content, but I'm not stuck on a diet craving for things I'm forbidden.
Yes, it takes time. Yes, there is a potential for hypos. Yes, you need to learn. But it is worth it. I now control the diabetes and not vice versa.

Just a point of interest. Recently I read an article (unfortunately I can't remember who shared it, as it was in the forum) wher the author said that trying to keep away from insulin is pointless as most of us would still come to it. Also, they thought that it was better to start with it from the beginning. People are afraid of insulin for the wrong reasons and fail to see the benefit over traditional treatment. Through my personal experience, I concur.
Best of luck and don't beat yourself about the diet and the tablets. It happens to us all.

Wow that’s really good to hear. I always hear the argument about trying not to go on it. Maybe I should speak to my doctor about going on it. Again it’s thrown my plan out and it’s every changing these last few days. I was firstly going to do the low carb now I plan to start the Newcastle diet but maybe I’d be happier on insulin. Thanks for your point of view xx

 

[Guzzler]

Nicel,
This is my personal opinion, but you might check with your diabetic team.
T2 is progressive condition. Although with strict diet and exercise you can achieve some reversal, to keep it there means dieting for life. Still according to literature, most T2 develop and end up on insulin.

For a number of years I stuck to the traditional treatment. Then my BS started rising. I was taking 4 x 500 g Metformin (max. dose), Saxaglipine at max., and Glipizide at max. No effect whatsoever. My HbA1c was 75 and above. So, I ended up on insulin.

Initially I was in shock. I was frightened. I did not want to be on insulin. Now? I wish I had gone on it earlier. After the initial shock I settled, started feeling comfortable and started eating normally. I went to a course about counting carbohydrates and learning how to calculate the insulin I need accordingly. I still watch the food and its content, but I'm not stuck on a diet craving for things I'm forbidden.
Yes, it takes time. Yes, there is a potential for hypos. Yes, you need to learn. But it is worth it. I now control the diabetes and not vice versa.

Just a point of interest. Recently I read an article (unfortunately I can't remember who shared it, as it was in the forum) wher the author said that trying to keep away from insulin is pointless as most of us would still come to it. Also, they thought that it was better to start with it from the beginning. People are afraid of insulin for the wrong reasons and fail to see the benefit over traditional treatment. Through my personal experience, I concur.
Best of luck and don't beat yourself about the diet and the tablets. It happens to us all.

It is a great pity that you can't remember the commenter who shared an article where the author states that "trying to keep away from insulin is pointless as most of us would still come to it." and that "it is better to start with it from the beginning". Do you remember if the author alluded to hyperinsulinaemia at all?

 

[Sani Thomas]

Wow that’s really good to hear. I always hear the argument about trying not to go on it. Maybe I should speak to my doctor about going on it. Again it’s thrown my plan out and it’s every changing these last few days. I was firstly going to do the low carb now I plan to start the Newcastle diet but maybe I’d be happier on insulin. Thanks for your point of view xx

Nicel,
I personally don't agree with all those diets, etc. I believe in balanced eating in moderate amounts. To be honest, putting my body in emergency state by making it use only fats and releasing ketones, seems to me pretty dangerous thing.

Then comes the issue of quality of life. I am not happy to be restricted for the rest of my life if I can have a different way of managing my diabetes.

No medical professional I've spoken with has approved there diets. There are many people in the forum who would disregard them. But having been a medical professional myself I'm inclined to go with them. But it is very important that they are diabetes specialists.

This is my personal opinion and the way I'm going about managing my T2. I'm off to have a croissant with butter and Nutella. 61 carbs for two.

Best wishes

 

[Sani Thomas]

It is a great pity that you can't remember the commenter who shared an article where the author states that "trying to keep away from insulin is pointless as most of us would still come to it." and that "it is better to start with it from the beginning". Do you remember if the author alluded to hyperinsulinaemia at all?

Will try to find it by going about the forums where I've been. But it may take some time. Cheers

 

[Guzzler]

Nicel,
I personally don't agree with all those diets, etc. I believe in balanced eating in moderate amounts. To be honest, putting my body in emergency state by making it use only fats and releasing ketones, seems to me pretty dangerous thing.

Then comes the issue of quality of life. I am not happy to be restricted for the rest of my life if I can have a different way of managing my diabetes.

No medical professional I've spoken with has approved there diets. There are many people in the forum who would disregard them. But having been a medical professional myself I'm inclined to go with them. But it is very important that they are diabetes specialists.

This is my personal opinion and the way I'm going about managing my T2. I'm off to have a croissant with butter and Nutella. 61 carbs for two.

Best wishes

There is a wealth of proven benefits of LCHF and Ketogenic diets provided by experts at the top of their fields from nephrologists to orthopaedic surgeons to endocrinologists to biochemists to clinical pathologists and cardiologists. Perhaps read a little more before making bold statements using the word dangerous whilst eating your croissant.

 

[Sani Thomas]

There is a wealth of proven benefits of LCHF and Ketogenic diets provided by experts at the top of their fields from nephrologists to orthopaedic surgeons to endocrinologists to biochemists to clinical pathologists and cardiologists. Perhaps read a little more before making bold statements using the word dangerous whilst eating your croissant.

There is a wealth of proven facts that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so.
Also, I started with the clarification that it is my opinion.
And last but not least, everyone makes their mind up, for themselves. But they need to know about all options. I feel that many people are not given enough information from both sides of the divide. They are entitle to, so they can make an informed decision.
So yes, in my opinion the LCHF is dangerous. And yes, I did enjoy both my croissants.

 

[Guzzler]

There is a wealth of proven facts that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so.
Also, I started with the clarification that it is my opinion.
And last but not least, everyone makes their mind up, for themselves. But they need to know about all options. I feel that many people are not given enough information from both sides of the divide. They are entitle to, so they can make an informed decision.
So yes, in my opinion the LCHF is dangerous. And yes, I did enjoy both my croissants.

Then you won't mind commenting on the downsides of being someone with T2 using insulin. I'm thinking here mainly on the risks of hypoglycaemia and the need for testing fastidiously as well as injecting. Just things, as you say, everyone should be aware of before they make choices.

 

[Boo1979]

Nicel,
I personally don't agree with all those diets, etc. I believe in balanced eating in moderate amounts. To be honest, putting my body in emergency state by making it use only fats and releasing ketones, seems to me pretty dangerous thing.

Then comes the issue of quality of life. I am not happy to be restricted for the rest of my life if I can have a different way of managing my diabetes.

No medical professional I've spoken with has approved there diets. There are many people in the forum who would disregard them. But having been a medical professional myself I'm inclined to go with them. But it is very important that they are diabetes specialists.

This is my personal opinion and the way I'm going about managing my T2. I'm off to have a croissant with butter and Nutella. 61 carbs for two.

Best wishes

The diet the op has chosen ( newcastle diet) is for 8 weeks, not for life

 

[Boo1979]

My Aldi store sells Soy Spaghetti, and I tried some and found it to be a good swapsie, The pack I got says it is made specially for Aldi, so not on general release it seems.

‘Explore’ make ‘spaghetti’ etc from a variety of different beans / pulses ( soy, edemmame, black beans, lentils) - they are widely available
https://www.ocado.com/webshop/produ...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CJrkppaWmt0CFRHV1Qod72cERA

 

[Sani Thomas]

Then you won't mind commenting on the downsides of being someone with T2 using insulin. I'm thinking here mainly on the risks of hypoglycaemia and the need for testing fastidiously as well as injecting. Just things, as you say, everyone should be aware of before they make choices.

You obviously did not read my original post, where I did mention them. But I'll satisfy you.
Hypoglycaemia or hypo is a side effect of insulin. Mind, I used o have them when I was on tablets only and that's when I had my lowest BS of 2.1.
Since starting on insulin, I have had very few hypos and none lower that 3.8. I am well prepared for all eventualities, there are plenty of products that can be used should you need to.
As for testing, I test 4 times anyway, so no skin off my nose.
Injecting is painless. Yes, it is. The needles for my pens are only 4 mm. long. There are plenty of areas to inject without bother. Again you learn how to do it appropriately. In fact, testing is more painful.
I have organised myself and have a lunch bad with sugar and biscuits, to which I add only my tests and insulin when I go out. It is ready to pick up.
I keep dextrose tabs in the car, may handbag and several places in the house like living room and bedroom. Once having organised yourself, it isn't a problem at all.
It takes some time to arrive at your personal levels of insulin, to learn about carb counting, but once you've done it, it is freedom. There plenty of apps that can be used and some of them even calculate the amount of insulin you need for the meal.
Carb and cal book is really good, and the app is only £4, with plenty of visual guides and information about estimating amounts of carbs. After a while you can do it without much need for references.

Since I've gone on insulin, my BS has almost normalised, my energy levels have upped, my depression has improved, and for a first time I am feeling good. I'm not fat, apart of the visceral fats which were acquired when I became diabetic. My BMI is within the healthy range, my blood pressure too. I am regaining my self-esteem and enjoying food that I did not go near to for years.

Hope that satisfies you. Best regards

 

[Guzzler]

You obviously did not read my original post, where I did mention them. But I'll satisfy you.
Hypoglycaemia or hypo is a side effect of insulin. Mind, I used o have them when I was on tablets only and that's when I had my lowest BS of 2.1.
Since starting on insulin, I have had very few hypos and none lower that 3.8. I am well prepared for all eventualities, there are plenty of products that can be used should you need to.
As for testing, I test 4 times anyway, so no skin off my nose.
Injecting is painless. Yes, it is. The needles for my pens are only 4 mm. long. There are plenty of areas to inject without bother. Again you learn how to do it appropriately. In fact, testing is more painful.
I have organised myself and have a lunch bad with sugar and biscuits, to which I add only my tests and insulin when I go out. It is ready to pick up.
I keep dextrose tabs in the car, may handbag and several places in the house like living room and bedroom. Once having organised yourself, it isn't a problem at all.
It takes some time to arrive at your personal levels of insulin, to learn about carb counting, but once you've done it, it is freedom. There plenty of apps that can be used and some of them even calculate the amount of insulin you need for the meal.
Carb and cal book is really good, and the app is only £4, with plenty of visual guides and information about estimating amounts of carbs. After a while you can do it without much need for references.

Since I've gone on insulin, my BS has almost normalised, my energy levels have upped, my depression has improved, and for a first time I am feeling good. I'm not fat, apart of the visceral fats which were acquired when I became diabetic. My BMI is within the healthy range, my blood pressure too. I am regaining my self-esteem and enjoying food that I did not go near to for years.

Hope that satisfies you. Best regards

I just eat a healthy diet.

 

[Sani Thomas]

The diet the op has chosen ( newcastle diet) is for 8 weeks, not for life

Boo1979, what happens after? By definition the effect will wear out and your BS will start creeping up again. Which means either a return to that diet or going to another. There is no "cure". You either achieve a reversal, which you need to maintain, again with diet, or you don't.
T2 diabetes is a progressive disease. And contrary to the media hype, many people have a genetic predisposition. I'm one of those. I have several close relatives who are diabetics.

 

[Sani Thomas]

I just eat a healthy diet.

Are you saying that surviving on mainly fats is healthy? Only the people in the Arctic regions live on fats. They have evolved to do so. We haven't. We are omnivorous so varied diet is the healthy option for us as species.
If you are left with the impression that I don't eat healthy, you are wrong. I don't eat just croissants. I eat veg, meat, bread, rice, pulses, pasta, fish, oils, fruit, etc. I don't overeat on any and I don't restrict myself. I don't feel cravings, so there is no need to pig out either.

Again, what you think and how you manage your diabetes is your choice. But I've read enough posts in favour of the LCHF without anyone presenting another option.

 

[Oldvatr]

There is a wealth of proven facts that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so.
Also, I started with the clarification that it is my opinion.
And last but not least, everyone makes their mind up, for themselves. But they need to know about all options. I feel that many people are not given enough information from both sides of the divide. They are entitle to, so they can make an informed decision.
So yes, in my opinion the LCHF is dangerous. And yes, I did enjoy both my croissants.

Just to even things up. Insulin is DANGEROUS. I have friends on it who quite regularly get a blue light visit to A&E to sort them out because they got things wrong. I have on many occasions had to rescue my guitarist colleague from a hypo and watch him writhing on the floor fitting and frothing at the mouth. It is not a pleasant experience for either of us. I am glad you are managing your condition so well, but not everybody is such an expert as you obviously are, By the way what is your HbA1c running at? Mine is 41 and I am following an LC way of life. My family is also following LC, and benefitting from it.

I get the distinct impression that you do not understamd how LC diets work otherwise you would not be so condescending.

I was in a similar position to you a while back. My HbA1c was 99 and rising, and I was regularly getting post prandials above 32 mmol/l My GP and many T1D here said the end game for me was TOWII just like you are doing here. But I found this website in time, and turned my life around. My bgl levels rarely go above 7 mmol/l or drop below 4, My life is stressful for other reasons, and not because of my way of life now. My GP has classed me as Normal in my notes

I fear your attitude here could lead inexperienced newcomers down a path that may not suit them, just like the NICE guidelines say, but there are alternatives for T2D at least. The diet I am following (I use the term diet. loosely) is also being recommended for treating severe epilepsy, heart protection, some cancers, and Parkinsons and Alzheimers.sufferers. These are recommendations by leading specialists in the healthcare profession, so it is becoming recognised as an acceptable treatment

Even though I was a suitable case for ID treatment I have proven that my pancreas is still functioning fine, and I am able now to eat a higher carb intake than I was a few years back. You choose to ignore that T2D is largely due to insulin resistance, which can be reversed by diet. Beta cell burnout cannot (yet) You only need insulin if your beta cells have stopped working enough to maintain homeostasis.

My advise here to newly diagnosed T2D is to try LC, and if your bgl drops as a result, then you still have some beta cell capability and going onto insulin too early will make your condition worse through hyperinsulaemia. Its worth a try IMHO

 

[Pipp]

Nicel,
I personally don't agree with all those diets, etc. I believe in balanced eating in moderate amounts. To be honest, putting my body in emergency state by making it use only fats and releasing ketones, seems to me pretty dangerous thing.

Then comes the issue of quality of life. I am not happy to be restricted for the rest of my life if I can have a different way of managing my diabetes.

No medical professional I've spoken with has approved there diets. There are many people in the forum who would disregard them. But having been a medical professional myself I'm inclined to go with them. But it is very important that they are diabetes specialists.

This is my personal opinion and the way I'm going about managing my T2. I'm off to have a croissant with butter and Nutella. 61 carbs for two.

Best wishes

Whilst I would agree that how each of us chooses to manage our health and well being is a personal choice based on individual circumstances, it is important to take into account facts and not just opinions. This enables informed choice.
It really would help if you could cite the source of the facts that formed your opinions, @Sani Thomas. Quality of life is such a personal thing. For some it is being able to be as free as possible from prescribed medication. Just as for you it is being able to eat whatever you choose and use insulin.