• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

DP (again). Rising maybe

HSSS

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,675
Location
South of England
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I’m busy playing with my new wireless adaptor for my meter and mySugr. It’s confirmed what is suspected. My morning fasting readings are not falling and may even very slightly rising maybe. (I’ve worked out how to select just fasting readings. Can I graph or average just them?). They are also a bit all over the place with little consistency. For the first month I can see more low numbers than now. I can see more regular high numbers lately too

I’ve no readings from before low carb so no idea what it was like at diagnosis. Just the drs hb1ac and a single fasting confirmation test.

How and why would this be possible? My only interpretation is my IR is getting worse (or not improving yet best case scenario) even whilst my overall control (a1c) is improving. Or is it impossible to see from this?

There often aren’t enough readings week on week for mySugr to predict hb1ac; but when it is there it’s better than I’d expect so I’m pretty confused overall but inspired to be more rigorous testing for a bit again to see if that clarifies things any. I fully appreciate they aren’t terrible numbers at all (6’s and 7’s mostly) and I’m not worried about it, just confused and I hate not understanding stuff, even if it’s only best guesses.
 
What sort of FBG levels did you have before you noticed this increase, and by how much has the average increased?

Do you also have a similar increase in your other base line levels? (before meals, particularly before evening meal, and bedtime)

How long have these increases been noticed?

I asked because there is something called "Physiological Insulin Resistance". This is not the same as normal diabetic insulin resistance. It is something that happens when we are very low carb all the time, and is normally temporary. It is also known as "brain sparing insulin resistance". The body detects glucose levels are constantly lower than it likes, so it jumps into action in order to spare what glucose there is for the brain (and a couple of other places). It tells the muscle cells to start rejecting the glucose and sends it to the brain. I don't fully understand the science behind it, but it is a known phenomenon. It mainly affects baseline levels rather than post meal actual rises. So your FBG etc will increase, but any rise you get after eating will be the same as before albeit with a higher level due to starting a bit higher.

It happened to me a couple of years ago and lasted a few weeks then it all went back to normal and hasn't happened again since. I understand the secret is to increase your carbs by a very small amount, just a few grams, and that satisfies your body.
 
@HSSS , @Bluetit1802 this is absolutely fascinating, as it describes the frustrating numbers my meter has been showing me the past several days. PP rises in same range as before, but everything, EVERYTHING, is higher to start with and end with. I am far from very low carb, though. At a wild guess, 50ish or more/day.
There are so many things this can be, and here’s another possibility!
Thanks!!
 
In my experience increased IR is a slow process but accumulately devastating.

So try and halt it in its tracks.
I find longterm strategies work the best. Not keep flitting from one known IR fight buster to another.
Chose your known strategy which works and persevere with it, forever...if possible.
IR prevention not lowering bgs with diet, that is.
You can have excellent bgs but still be highly IR.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
What sort of FBG levels did you have before you noticed this increase, and by how much has the average increased?

Do you also have a similar increase in your other base line levels? (before meals, particularly before evening meal, and bedtime)

How long have these increases been noticed?

I asked because there is something called "Physiological Insulin Resistance". This is not the same as normal diabetic insulin resistance. It is something that happens when we are very low carb all the time, and is normally temporary. It is also known as "brain sparing insulin resistance". The body detects glucose levels are constantly lower than it likes, so it jumps into action in order to spare what glucose there is for the brain (and a couple of other places). It tells the muscle cells to start rejecting the glucose and sends it to the brain. I don't fully understand the science behind it, but it is a known phenomenon. It mainly affects baseline levels rather than post meal actual rises. So your FBG etc will increase, but any rise you get after eating will be the same as before albeit with a higher level due to starting a bit higher.

It happened to me a couple of years ago and lasted a few weeks then it all went back to normal and hasn't happened again since. I understand the secret is to increase your carbs by a very small amount, just a few grams, and that satisfies your body.
Click to expand...
Sorry I missed this reply. As I said the amounts are small up to a mmol at most overall, confusing rather than worrying. The other baselines don’t seem to have moved as much. The first month of testing was better than any since for fbg. The last month a little higher again. But again very small changes. However individual numbers are all over the place and my testing hasn’t been consistent enough for me to see patterns well. I am now endeavouring g to spend a good few weeks being more rigorous to see if that clarifies this for me. I tamed my monster for the first time yesterday

I’ve no idea at this point which method of reducing my IR and DP is best for me. I assuming as I sort the ir the DP will improve or isn’t it linked that closely? so far I’ve just been focused on getting used to low carb eating. I’ve tried various snack before bed but without being more detailed haven’t noticed any type making any difference.

I’ve tried intermittent fasting by skipping breakfast and having a brunch and dinner. My levels will climb for some time before finally falling again late morning. My hope is this would reduce ir

Then in the morning I’ve tried eating first thing to stop the DP rise. (Tends to work) Then it’ll be lunch skipped. So the intermittent fasting is two longish periods rather than one longer one. My hope here is to minimise the time and extent of the DP rise.

I’m uncertain which is better and more likely to have the greatest benefit.
 
Yes. Improved insulin sensitivity should have a profound affect on DP. Your liver will actually begin listening to the rising insulin and will stop secreting glucose.
 
Jim Lahey said:
Yes. Improved insulin sensitivity should have a profound affect on DP. Your liver will actually begin listening to the rising insulin and will stop secreting glucose.
Click to expand...
Great. Now I just have to work on improving sensitivity as opposed to just lowering blood glucose. I’m sure my weight loss should have helped, and my diet so far but I guess there’s more I can do (but the question is how much further can I take it mentally ie still feel ok about it. I don’t think that’s a lot more right now). Exercise sounds like the next dreaded step. However seeing the surgeon today about a dodgy hip to see if he has a magic wand or wants to chop me up (again).
 
HSSS said:
Sorry I missed this reply. As I said the amounts are small up to a mmol at most overall, confusing rather than worrying. The other baselines don’t seem to have moved as much. The first month of testing was better than any since for fbg. The last month a little higher again. But again very small changes. However individual numbers are all over the place and my testing hasn’t been consistent enough for me to see patterns well. I am now endeavouring g to spend a good few weeks being more rigorous to see if that clarifies this for me. I tamed my monster for the first time yesterday

I’ve no idea at this point which method of reducing my IR and DP is best for me. I assuming as I sort the ir the DP will improve or isn’t it linked that closely? so far I’ve just been focused on getting used to low carb eating. I’ve tried various snack before bed but without being more detailed haven’t noticed any type making any difference.

I’ve tried intermittent fasting by skipping breakfast and having a brunch and dinner. My levels will climb for some time before finally falling again late morning. My hope is this would reduce ir

Then in the morning I’ve tried eating first thing to stop the DP rise. (Tends to work) Then it’ll be lunch skipped. So the intermittent fasting is two longish periods rather than one longer one. My hope here is to minimise the time and extent of the DP rise.

I’m uncertain which is better and more likely to have the greatest benefit.
Click to expand...
Had you thought of trying a breakfast and lunch regime then fasting until the next morning?
Jason Fung often says that this may be the best fasting protocol but most people don't want to do it because of family dinners after work. Could be an option for a few weeks to see if that helps?
 
I had but family stuff is exactly the reason I haven’t. It’s hard to not eat when they all are around me. However some days it would work when we’re all up to different things anyway. I guess random days of it are better than none. A bit like skipping breakfast doesn’t need to be every day for it to help. A project for next week. Like all good things it needs planning and I keep falling over there
 
Back
Top