A T2, Libre self funding, "What is going on?" thread with keto

[Mr_Pot]

I've just started my first "beer experiment" by having one of my favourite beers before we get to the BBQ which is cooking.
Slow start to any ramp up, but we shall see what the next half hour brings.
I must remember the time lag when looking at the readings.
25 minutes ago from starting the beer but the IFG meter may only be 5 minutes in.

What was the final result of this very interesting experiment? Asking for a friend

 

[Robbity]

I've used the sensor with the associated Libre reader (which will also act as a meter and takes both glucose and ketone strips) and uploaded the data via USB to the Abbot Libre software on my PC. I was a bit disappointed with this as unlike my Bayer software which maintains a complete and permanent database, the Abbot version only takes the current uploaded data for analysis and doesn't actually save it, though it can however be exported if you want to keep retrospective data. It will export graphs as pdf files, and also the raw data in tab delimited text files, so you could create your own database if required with a bit of extra faffing about...

My sensor results were consistently around 1-1.5 points lower than my Bayer meter readings but the patterns I saw were more or less what I expected. And its predicted HbA1c results put me squarely in the normal range, whereas my meter (via our Diabetes.co,uk conversion calculator) was much closer though slightly lower than my actual figures.

Robbity

ETA Having thought about databases again - since the sensor records every 15 mins, plus you get whatever results you've got from testing via the reader, it would make for vast amounts of stored data so probably that's the reason for current data only (which is actually the total the reader can hold. anyway). I was obviously too p****d off originally to think things through properly...

 

[CondorX]

I have a slightly different variation of this subject as I am also a T2 self funding Libre user, but have added a MiaoMiao transmitter and finally managed to install Spike. This is as far as I am concerned, a gamechanger for the Libre, although it is early days of it's use in this way for me. I will create a different thread on this so as not to derail OPs thread, which I continue to follow with interest.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

What was the final result of this very interesting experiment? Asking for a friend

Took my BG up a couple of point and it stayed up for quite a while. The evening meal didn't seem to affect it much.
Only tried one kind of beer - a 5% IPA from Lidl.
I suspect the Leffe Belgian beer might have a more dramatic effect.

Beer for treats only for a while, sad to say.

Still, there is wine.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I've used the sensor with the associated Libre reader (which will also act as a meter and takes both glucose and ketone strips) and uploaded the data via USB to the Abbot Libre software on my PC. I was a bit disappointed with this as unlike my Bayer software which maintains a complete and permanent database, the Abbot version only takes the current uploaded data for analysis and doesn't actually save it, though it can however be exported if you want to keep retrospective data. It will export graphs as pdf files, and also the raw data in tab delimited text files, so you could create your own database if required with a bit of extra faffing about...

My sensor results were consistently around 1-1.5 points lower than my Bayer meter readings but the patterns I saw were more or less what I expected. And its predicted HbA1c results put me squarely in the normal range, whereas my meter (via our Diabetes.co,uk conversion calculator) was much closer though slightly lower than my actual figures.

Robbity

ETA Having thought about databases again - since the sensor records every 15 mins, plus you get whatever results you've got from testing via the reader, it would make for vast amounts of stored data so probably that's the reason for current data only (which is actually the total the reader can hold. anyway). I was obviously too p****d off originally to think things through properly...

Could you clarify this, please?
I am using the Libre\Link App on my phone which continuously uploads data to the Internet and the Abbott site, and I can see all my data so far (first sensor) via the LibreView web site.
Are you saying that you can't see historical data if you use the Reader to upload the data?
Or are you saying that it ditches the data from your expired sensor when you start a new one?

On the subject of space for data storage, a group of numeric values such as date, time and BG should be tiny compared to a single email or word processor file. Storage should not be an issue, especially on a central server.

Having read my Freestyle Freedom Lite meter into the LibreView I can see a lot of historical data.

So I am confused, and would like to be certain I'm not going to lose any data when my sensor expires and I start a new one.

Edit: ping @HSSS for comment

 

[Bluetit1802]

Could you clarify this, please?
I am using the Libre\Link App on my phone which continuously uploads data to the Internet and the Abbott site, and I can see all my data so far (first sensor) via the LibreView web site.
Are you saying that you can't see historical data if you use the Reader to upload the data?
Or are you saying that it ditches the data from your expired sensor when you start a new one?

On the subject of space for data storage, a group of numeric values such as date, time and BG should be tiny compared to a single email or word processor file. Storage should not be an issue, especially on a central server.

Having read my Freestyle Freedom Lite meter into the LibreView I can see a lot of historical data.

So I am confused, and would like to be certain I'm not going to lose any data when my sensor expires and I start a new one.

Edit: ping @HSSS for comment

I use the Abbott reader and Libre View. Nothing else. On Libre View I can see historical graphs back to at least 2016, which is when I had my first sensor, and I can download the 15 minute reading data back the same distance. There is no problem at all. All I have to do is use the USB cable Abbott provided with the reader and log in to Libre View.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Update:

I am coming to the end of my first sensor (Tuesday now, finishes on Thursday).

My main initial finding is that the Freestyle Libre has forced me to re-evaluate my diet.
"A little bit of what you fancy does you good." is patently untrue.
"Just a little bit won't hurt this once; I can cope with a few extra carbs." is also not accurate.
"A beer now and then is fine." also looks to be wrong.

Preconceptions (which seem supported by general discussions on this forum) seem to not always apply to me.

Some things I have identified:

• I seem to have a very extended dawn phenomenon some days which can carry on until about noon.
• My go to keto coffee+butter+cream also seems to spike me in the mornings, which goes against what I expected. Cream at 1.6 grams of carbohydrate per 100 ml shouldn't in theory do this.Butter at 1.8 grams per 100 gms likewise. I'm still trying to work out if it is the coffee. Decaf test soon.
• Prolonged exercise seems, under certain conditions, to raise and keep up my BG levels. This is a real puzzler.
• In general I can tolerate beans and pulses, even half a tin of Heinz Baked Beans (normal version)

My general graphs suggest that I may be over producing glucagon which stimulates the release of glucose into the blood and inhibits the release of insulin. Further study needed.

The most striking change is that the Libre is acting as the voice of my conscience.
I can't kid myself that a treat is OK because the graph shows me that it is not.

One interesting thing is that cutting out all beer (but not all alcohol) plus occasional days off the fat fest in the morning seems to be bringing my weight down.

I have now just reached my all time best of 11 stone 10 lbs without the major pain of water dieting or anything else extreme. I hope that the weight is mainly coming off my waist.
I have certainly dropped below a 36" waist and if I stand just right with the light behind me I can measure my waist at 34".

I haven't been vastly scientific about this during the first two weeks, like keeping a detailed food log, but have mainly concentrated on identifying trends.

My sensor readings are consistently low, but in the second week they aren't as different from the finger prick readings as they were initially. They now seem to be around 0.7 mmol/L low instead of about 1.5 mmol/L in the first week.
The main challenge is to wait for a period when the Libre readings are more or less constant (flat line on the graph) and then do some finger prick testing.

Summary: this is proving to be well worthwhile despite the expense.

Footnote: I just bought two more sensors from Asda which turn out to have a slightly earlier expiry date than the first batch of three. February 2020 as opposed to March 2020. Go figure.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

What was the final result of this very interesting experiment? Asking for a friend

Sadly, I think you need to tell your friend that people who described beer as liquid toast weren't as far off the mark as I originally thought.

@Southport GP

 

[Bluetit1802]

@LittleGreyCat

How are you doing with levels overnight when in bed?

 

[Mr_Pot]

Sadly, I think you need to tell your friend that people who described beer as liquid toast weren't as far off the mark as I originally thought.

@Southport GP

Considering half a tin of baked beans has about the same carbs as 500ml of beer that seems unfair and puzzling. Incidentally Heinz "no added sugar" beans have more carbs than the normal version.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

@LittleGreyCat

How are you doing with levels overnight when in bed?

Mini-dip around midnight.
Sensor shows hypo but it is reading low.
Then a continuous slow climb which carries on right up to midday.

Unless I have my coffee when it leaps up a bit faster.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Considering half a tin of baked beans has about the same carbs as 500ml of beer that seems unfair and puzzling. Incidentally Heinz "no added sugar" beans have more carbs than the normal version.

Well, yes, this is one of my issues where theory and carb counting don't map onto observations.

 

[becca59]

@LittleGreyCat as you are getting the dreaded DP then Adrenalin surges are affecting your sugar levels. It will be the caffeine in the coffee producing an Adrenalin rush not carbs in the high fat items. The same with exercise. I always have to have extra insulin after swimming, gardening and walking. Never less. The only exercise which lowers my levels, and very quickly, is vacuuming. It is not all about what carbs do to our bodies as you are finding out. Oh and put that sensor on 24 hours before you want to activate it. It will bed down and give better results.

 

[CondorX]

My Libre is incredibly sensitive to stress and readings will shoot up really rapidly when in a stressful situation at work - also with exercise. I guess that is adrenalin getting me ready for fight or flight.......unhelpful though that might be!

 

[LittleGreyCat]

@LittleGreyCat as you are getting the dreaded DP then Adrenalin surges are affecting your sugar levels. It will be the caffeine in the coffee producing an Adrenalin rush not carbs in the high fat items. The same with exercise. I always have to have extra insulin after swimming, gardening and walking. Never less. The only exercise which lowers my levels, and very quickly, is vacuuming. It is not all about what carbs do to our bodies as you are finding out. Oh and put that sensor on 24 hours before you want to activate it. It will bed down and give better results.

Thanks.

I had the sensor on for 48 hours before activating, just in case.

 

[Gryph]

Took my BG up a couple of point and it stayed up for quite a while. The evening meal didn't seem to affect it much.
Only tried one kind of beer - a 5% IPA from Lidl.
I suspect the Leffe Belgian beer might have a more dramatic effect.

Beer for treats only for a while, sad to say.

Still, there is wine.

This is really interesting, thank you for posting. Considering self funded libre myself in order to get a full view, over and above 10+ finger pricks a day.

With regard to beer... I appreciate this is not in the same league taste wise, but Michelob Ultra works really well as a cold one for me (2g carbs per bottle), and the last couple of weeks, San Miguel Light (unsure of UK availability, currently on hols).

Champagne, Brut Cava and 40%+ single/blended malts, bourbon and rye also have a negligible BG impact for me; however, we’re all unique, so YMMV.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

This is really interesting, thank you for posting. Considering self funded libre myself in order to get a full view, over and above 10+ finger pricks a day.

With regard to beer... I appreciate this is not in the same league taste wise, but Michelob Ultra works really well as a cold one for me (2g carbs per bottle), and the last couple of weeks, San Miguel Light (unsure of UK availability, currently on hols).

Champagne, Brut Cava and 40%+ single/blended malts, bourbon and rye also have a negligible BG impact for me; however, we’re all unique, so YMMV.

However, the opportunities for detailed testing are many and varied.

Single malt and white wine seem to be O.K. for me.
At the moment I an drinking "spritzers" of white wine and fizzy water (mainly water) which seems to stave off the beer cravings.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Well, yes, this is one of my issues where theory and carb counting don't map onto observations.

I can eat Heinz Baked Beans (the ordinary ones) without any effect on my levels over and above what the same meal does to me without the beans, but I only have a quarter of a small tin. Red wine reduces my levels very nicely. Not all carbs are equal I have found. Similar amounts in bread and spuds make a huge difference to me - the spuds are fine, the bread is not.

Other than dog walking, exercise is worse for me than bread! I actually have to leave my housework until the afternoons - vacuuming, gardening, and cleaning windows especially.

The Libre is a wonderful tool to show just what does happen - and when. It is also very useful on holidays when circumstances are different and (in my case) I don't want to be hampered with finger pricking.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Well, more strange results.

I went out for a 40 mile bike ride (in easy stages) with ham and eggs instead of the fat fest this morning.

My BG continued to climb until about noon (as it does when I don't exercise, but with a higher peak) and then progressively came down to hypo territory (according to the sensor) but around 4.7 according to my meter.

I then indulged myself with a beer which didn't do much to my BG, then had a lot more than usual to eat this evening along with some wine.
I even had some slices of nectarine.
BG stayed straight and low; mid 5s on the sensor which suggests low 6s in real life.

Have I discovered that (within limits) whatever I do in the morning raises my BG and whatever I do in the afternoon doesn't?

As the sun comes up so does my BG, and as it goes down so does my BG?

Those ancients who worshipped the sun might have a point after all.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Well, more interesting and confusing stuff. BG flat as a pancake overnight and no dawn phenomenon.

BG only started to climb after morning coffee.

I can't work out at the moment why there wasn't the usual climb of BG after midnight.
Should have avoided coffee, perhaps, but I was intrigued to see if my body could deal with it as I had a late coffee+cream+butter last night and that didn't seem to touch my BG levels at all.

I did drink quite a bit of wine, though, but I didn't think that would have continued working right through to 08:00 this morning.
Memo to self: there is a reason why you don't drink strong coffee in the evening. Like waking up at 03:00 wide awake and staring.

I was also wondering if my BG drop in the later parts of cycling had temporarily cleaned my liver out of spare glucose so there was nothing to dump. However this doesn't seem that likely.